ScottDab
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 08:58 PM |
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Fireblade engine help
Hi,
I currently own a caterham with a 919cc fireblade engine in it. I recently was out and the engine developed a loud knocking round and the coolant was
full of oil :-(
I am looking into my options of replacing the engine and was wondering if anyone could help?
Does anyone know of a supplier of the 919 engines?
Would a 929/954 engine be a good upgrade with throttle bodies?
I run a dry sump so would my sump fit a 929/954 engine?
Could I even look into getting a cbr1000 engine?
I am an engineer by trade so I have no problem with modifying engine mounts etc! Just not sure if I want to be machining a new sump!
Sorry about all the questions!
Scott
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Doctor Derek Doctors
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:13 PM |
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Andy Bates of AB Performance is the man to speak to, he'll sort you out with the best advice available about your options based on your
budget/needs. Otherwise there are plenty of used 919 Fireblades around to put your sump onto.
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
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callan@t89.co.uk
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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OliilO
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:29 PM |
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I've got a 954 engine in my car (or did until I broke it...), I'd suggest that if you're going to change engines you'd be
better off spending a bit more and going straight to a newer generation 1000rr. Both because it'll be more developed and have more power than an
earlier era and secondly 954 engines now seem to be difficult to get hold of as that year of fireblade seems to be considered a bit iconic now.
I'm pretty sure that the 929/954 are not the same casing etc. as the 919 so wouldn't drop straight in too.
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ScottDab
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
Andy Bates of AB Performance is the man to speak to, he'll sort you out with the best advice available about your options based on your
budget/needs. Otherwise there are plenty of used 919 Fireblades around to put your sump onto.
You would be surprised how hard a good 919 is to find. Few forsale that are really high mileage or have scraps all down the casings so have been
dropped!
I tried ringing Andy last week but unfortunately he is out the office until the 12th :-(
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ScottDab
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| posted on 5/5/14 at 09:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
Andy Bates of AB Performance is the man to speak to, he'll sort you out with the best advice available about your options based on your
budget/needs. Otherwise there are plenty of used 919 Fireblades around to put your sump onto.
You would be surprised how hard a good 919 is to find. Few forsale that are really high mileage or have scraps all down the casings so have been
dropped!
I tried ringing Andy last week but unfortunately he is out the office until the 12th :-(
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speedystew
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| posted on 6/5/14 at 06:49 AM |
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As others have said Andy is your man, if your engine block is in 1 piece it may be repairable, as your an engineer you should find it easy to strip
your self so you would only be paying for machining and parts. A lot of people just replace but at the age of the engines now how do you know your
going to get a good un.
Cbr 1000rr is the way to go but it's costly to put in (I have done it) and also the air box sticks a fair way out of the bonnet and it runs 8
injectors, 4 of them are in the air box so it makes it hard to modify it to fit under the bonnet although I think andy was working on it last time I
spoke to him.
[Edited on 6-5-14 by speedystew]
duratec,it's so last year
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IanG1
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| posted on 8/5/14 at 11:00 AM |
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Other option is to buy a complete 919 fireblade bike (that way you can ride it and satisfy yourself on condition) take the engine out and either sell
it complete as a rolling chassis or break it and get some of your money back.
Unfortunately its the wrong time of year to buy a bike as prices tend to nudge up due the the better weather. I watch similar bikes on Ebay and they
tend to fetch circa £1 to £1.2K where as an engine can be £600 without any ancillaries and condition unknown.
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sam919
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| posted on 8/5/14 at 04:36 PM |
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Thats some sound advice by IanG, very sensible option.
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speedystew
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| posted on 9/5/14 at 08:27 AM |
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agree with ian, if you get a good bike the front ends, forks, wheel, clocks and fairings will do very strong money if you brake it as will frame and
log book
duratec,it's so last year
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ScottDab
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| posted on 11/5/14 at 08:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by IanG1
Other option is to buy a complete 919 fireblade bike (that way you can ride it and satisfy yourself on condition) take the engine out and either sell
it complete as a rolling chassis or break it and get some of your money back.
Unfortunately its the wrong time of year to buy a bike as prices tend to nudge up due the the better weather. I watch similar bikes on Ebay and they
tend to fetch circa £1 to £1.2K where as an engine can be £600 without any ancillaries and condition unknown.
I have looked at this but unfortunately they still hold good money. If I wanted a decent one without 50k miles on I am looking at £1750-£2000
unfortunately.
I still haven't had any luck with finding one. I left Andy at AB performance a message and he gets back in the office tomorrow so hopefully he
might be able to source me one!
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IanG1
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| posted on 11/5/14 at 04:24 PM |
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One just listed on eBay buy it now £1100 with 30k and tatty cosmetics item no 201088405079
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OliilO
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| posted on 11/5/14 at 05:22 PM |
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For those of you also running blade engines, where have you got your oil temp sender located?
Mine is currently on a remote pipe with the pressure sender, which is not an ideal solution. It only represents what the temp is doing rather than
what it actually is.
I've just got an AB baffled sump and am wondering if it is worth drilling and tapping this for a sender before sticking it on the car.
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ScottDab
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| posted on 11/5/14 at 07:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by IanG1
One just listed on eBay buy it now £1100 with 30k and tatty cosmetics item no 201088405079
That one is a 1997 unfortunately, although it is a 919 apparently they changed 80% of the engine internals from 1997 to 1998 and 1999 :-(
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mark chandler
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| posted on 11/5/14 at 08:51 PM |
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I replaced the 893 in mine with a late 919, apart from the gears working the opposite way it was a straight swap including the clutch.
Later bikes with injection are completely different
[Edited on 11/5/14 by mark chandler]
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IanG1
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 06:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ScottDab
quote:
Originally posted by IanG1
One just listed on eBay buy it now £1100 with 30k and tatty cosmetics item no 201088405079
That one is a 1997 unfortunately, although it is a 919 apparently they changed 80% of the engine internals from 1997 to 1998 and 1999 :-(
Thats news to me? 919 are pretty much the same whatever year you get and I certainly identical with regards to external mounts and dimensions. As Mark
as said the big change came for the 929/954 which are totally different.
[Edited on 12/5/14 by IanG1]
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sam919
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 06:57 AM |
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Is this an original fireblade caterham? a James Whiting version?
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ScottDab
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 04:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by IanG1
quote:
Originally posted by ScottDab
quote:
Originally posted by IanG1
One just listed on eBay buy it now £1100 with 30k and tatty cosmetics item no 201088405079
That one is a 1997 unfortunately, although it is a 919 apparently they changed 80% of the engine internals from 1997 to 1998 and 1999 :-(
Thats news to me? 919 are pretty much the same whatever year you get and I certainly identical with regards to external mounts and dimensions. As Mark
as said the big change came for the 929/954 which are totally different.
[Edited on 12/5/14 by IanG1]
I spoke to Andy at AB Performance today and he confirmed that they have different gear ratios in 96/97 to 98/99
quote:
Originally posted by sam919
Is this an original fireblade caterham? a James Whiting version?
The car is an original James Whiting Fireblade
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IanG1
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 04:38 PM |
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Wouldn't have thought a variation in gear ratios would have too much of an impact on a BEC, certainly not enough to worry about . Probably just
a taller first gear for acceleration or lesser 6th for top gear cruising economy on the bike. I doubt you would even notice the difference mate.
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ScottDab
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 04:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by IanG1
Wouldn't have thought a variation in gear ratios would have too much of an impact on a BEC, certainly not enough to worry about . Probably just
a taller first gear for acceleration or lesser 6th for top gear cruising economy on the bike. I doubt you would even notice the difference mate.
Yea I am now on the look out for any 919 engine. Think I am going to find just an engine to run for the moment then in the future look at getting a
rebuilt engine from AB Performance!
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mark chandler
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 04:51 PM |
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Only differences I noted from an 893 were
Gear change works the opposite way, had to reverse my linkage as I like 1 forward, 5 back (very confusing when I first drove it)
Thermostat is a separate item, I binned the later stuff, blanked up the pipe to the water pump and stuck the original thermostat up top
Road speed sender moved from outside the chain drive to a sensor that reads a gear cog, ignored
It grew a sight gauge, dip stick was easier as I have to photo the window now as it's out of sight
As for ratios, just glad the car was mobile again, did not notice any difference to be honest, everything else lines up.
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ScottDab
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 05:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Only differences I noted from an 893 were
Gear change works the opposite way, had to reverse my linkage as I like 1 forward, 5 back (very confusing when I first drove it)
Thermostat is a separate item, I binned the later stuff, blanked up the pipe to the water pump and stuck the original thermostat up top
Road speed sender moved from outside the chain drive to a sensor that reads a gear cog, ignored
It grew a sight gauge, dip stick was easier as I have to photo the window now as it's out of sight
As for ratios, just glad the car was mobile again, did not notice any difference to be honest, everything else lines up.
Hi Mark, with regards to the different gear ratios I am talking about 919cc engines. They changed them between 1996/7 and 1998/9 even though they are
all 919cc!
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ScottDab
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 05:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Only differences I noted from an 893 were
Gear change works the opposite way, had to reverse my linkage as I like 1 forward, 5 back (very confusing when I first drove it)
Thermostat is a separate item, I binned the later stuff, blanked up the pipe to the water pump and stuck the original thermostat up top
Road speed sender moved from outside the chain drive to a sensor that reads a gear cog, ignored
It grew a sight gauge, dip stick was easier as I have to photo the window now as it's out of sight
As for ratios, just glad the car was mobile again, did not notice any difference to be honest, everything else lines up.
Hi Mark, with regards to the different gear ratios I am talking about 919cc engines. They changed them between 1996/7 and 1998/9 even though they are
all 919cc!
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sam919
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 05:08 PM |
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I think that's your best bet, it will hold its money better as well as they will ,if not already, be a classic caterham with its intended engine
in, deviations make the anoraks and future purchasers get a right wobbly on. 140 ish is achievable and would be a suitable mod. I'm sure ther is
a topic referring to tuning the 919 on here, shorter strainer/DS/ different needles and jets.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 05:11 PM |
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I have been through 1 x 893 and am now on my second 919, the very late one had road speed sensor reading an internal gear, the early 919 in the car
now does not.
The point is ratios may be different but I never noticed in driving, and it's a straight nuts and bolts swap, mountings, carbs exhaust so
it's of no consequence.
Regards Mark
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ScottDab
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| posted on 16/5/14 at 09:05 PM |
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I have put a new engine in, managed to get hold of one from a 1997 bike, only difference if the 1997 bike has 2 water ways in the head and my 1999 one
doesn't have these, the 1997 water pump had the Ports for these water ways but doesn't have a large outlet to go to my external
thermostat. Can I loop these or block them so I can run my 1999 water pump?
Here is a diagram for a 1999 (pipe 9 goes to my external thermostat then to my radiator )
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_motorcycle_parts_selection.php?block_01=13MASW41&block_02=E__1000&block_03=1185
And here is one from a 1997
http://www.bike-parts-honda.com/pieces-honda-detail-840-13MW0N41-CBR900RRV-1997-E__1000-CBR+900+FIREBLADE.html
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