peter030371
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 09:52 AM |
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Striker costs
I am plodding on with my Striker build but keep thinking about getting some build insurance as the further on I get the more 'desirable'
it becomes.
In total I have spent just the wrong side of £13K and that is after keeping any eye out for lots of bargains....without the bargains it would be the
wrong side of £20K!!
That is for a reasonably high-spec car with IRS chassis, Duratec with Cosworth throttle bodies run by an Omex ECU and a Raceline wet sump, CAN link to
Dash2 Pro, fully rebuilt quaife diff, heavy duty BGH gearbox, Wilwood brakes, Protech shocks, Team Dynamic wheels, R888 tyres and so on. I am very
happy with the price for what I have got 
But it got me thinking what other kit can you get with equal spec and how much would they cost. Answer is they are all much the same or more
expensive. The worst is not difficult to guess....Caterham 360R with a few bits added to match the above comes to £36K+ (kit only) 
The Striker seems to suffer from low second hand prices and I really can't tell why  Not that it bothers me as I kept my last Striker 18 years
and plan to keep this one for a long time yet but why are the Striker prices low when everyone that has driven one complements the handling and the
car in general?
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Jenko
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 11:05 AM |
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I don't think the striker suffers anymore than other kit cars. Caterham, and possibly westfield are better known, and thus tend to hold prices a
wee bit better.
Just be happy for the price you have built your car, there is not too much on the road that will go as quickly :-)
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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fostrike
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 11:38 AM |
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Sorry Peter, where are exactly those high spec striker at bargain price? 
Just need 2 more years to finish my house mortgage and I will be in the market for a Striker/Phoenix with Duratec/Zetec to go along the BEC MNR
vortx.
For most europeans buy an used one is basically the only option
[Edited on 3/7/15 by fostrike]
[Edited on 3/7/15 by fostrike]
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jeffw
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 11:48 AM |
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Pete
You could have bought my Phoenix for £25K
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loggyboy
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 12:02 PM |
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All down to supply and demand.
My feelings are if you want a '7' (but not a 'kit' car) you buy a Caterfield, (more caterham) they are the industry standard
with backup from dealers (to a certain extent, more so than Raw/MK/MNR etc). This suits the person who's a petrolhead, but not that interested
in getting hands dirty.
Values go up in line with relative high demand and cost of new items.
If you are more in to the Kit car 'scene' then the likely desire is to build your own (it certainly was for me) in full knowledge you will
spend more than buying a used one, but in knowledge not only is to you exact spec, but YOU built it.
This pushes the demand for used ones down, plus being a narrower market anyway.
Mistral Motorsport
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peter030371
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 12:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by fostrike
Sorry Peter, where are exactly those high spec striker at bargain price?
[Edited on 3/7/15 by fostrike]
That's whats odd, they are not often available but when they are they are nearly always <£10K for what has clearly cost considerably more to
make You would think that rarity would drive up the price not the other way! If you want a 200bhp Caterham then in minutes you can find dozens for
sale all well above £10K (OK most above £20K and a few above £30K even 2 or 3 years old).
OK, I know the market is what the market is and its not about to change. Just seems a pity that all these well established brands (Sylva, Raw, Fisher,
Tiger etc) with decent history can't make a decent second hand price when clearly one or two brands do.
quote:
Originally posted by fostrike
Just need 2 more years to finish my house mortgage and I will be in the market for a Striker/Phoenix with Duratec/Zetec to go along the BEC MNR
vortx.
[Edited on 3/7/15 by fostrike]
Do you want to bid on my car for 2-3 years time then, starting price £18K (well I can try and buck the trend can't I?) 
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peter030371
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 12:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Pete
You could have bought my Phoenix for £25K
Let me guess Jeff, never raced or rallied
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jeffw
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 12:13 PM |
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lol
Race proven 
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Irony
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 12:17 PM |
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Used prices of these cars baffle me quite a bit as well. Theres a nice Alfa V6 Luego Viento going on eBay at the moment for £6K. Put the same engine
in a DAX Rush/Westfield Sight Chassis and you could double the asking price it seems.
I did think that a person who ought to know would be a IVA tester. When I went to a friends IVA I asked about it. He said that the more premium
brands are no better constructed than the value brands in regards to chassis in most cases. He said some premium brands the 'premium' is
totally unjustified as regards to quality of construction. He also went on to say that some manufacturers prioritise their racing commitments over
the quality of their kits.
He did tell me exactly what brands he thought were bad and which he thought were good but I shall not repeat his words here.
It probably goes to show that the prices are driven by peoples belief in well established brands. What people believe is more important than quality.
Look at Robin Hoods turnaround into GBSC. I would happily go out and buy a Zero now, but many on here remember the bad old days of Robin Hood.
[Edited on 3/7/15 by Irony]
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fostrike
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 12:34 PM |
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Most low priced Striker use pretty old lump, like the Xflow or CVH (euro 0 emission) and then again you never know the overall build level.
Many of the user in a similar forum in Italy who brough used kit from UK had to spend a considerable amount of money to sort out all the issues.
And that on top of a uge import cost and homologation (let's say well over 3000€).
But when you buy a Caterham you probably know the correct overall spec and is most certainly a factory build.
Not that this last part is always an issue, my MNR was build by one user of this forum in 2006 and the build quality is amazing.
[Edited on 3/7/15 by fostrike]
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The Knobs
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 06:44 PM |
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Caterham are about the only 'kit car' that will not loose a shitload of money if building new. I bought a 2 year old Striker with 2K
miles, build cost £18K, i paid £8.5K, back a few years ago. Spent another £4K on it with sc engine, wheels, cage etc etc and sold for £10K 18 months
later so not a huge amount to loose.
Why were not all Strikers designed to use the Suburu diff as that was definitely a step in the right direction?
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Sam_68
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 08:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by The KnobsCaterham are about the only 'kit car' that will not loose a shitload of money if building new.
Or at least that's what Caterham's marketing department would like you to believe.
The reality (picked at random from the current classifieds) is that you can buy a well-specced R500, that would have cost you north of £40K new, for
less than £25K, with less than 10K miles on the clock.
In other words, the OP could give his Sylva away to charity after driving it for 10K miles, and still have lost less than the Caterham.
The percentage retained value based on mileage for the average Caterham is truly, truly dreadful.
Admittedly, that's a 14-year old (though immaculate) car, but would anyone care to do the sums to see how much you'd have earned in
compound interest on £40K invested in 2001, instead of having it sat in the garage doing only 700 miles a year?
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elvadelva
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 08:21 PM |
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first post
Hi guys,
I was hoping my first post would be at least constructive but I think I'm on the wrong site! Locostbuilders.co.uk, the figures quoted are a bit
like monopoly money, has the site been hijacked? or is it full of high rollers?
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peter030371
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 09:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by elvadelva
first post
Hi guys,
I was hoping my first post would be at least constructive but I think I'm on the wrong site! Locostbuilders.co.uk, the figures quoted are a bit
like monopoly money, has the site been hijacked? or is it full of high rollers?
On man's low is another man's high both are equally valid, neither are right or wrong. I have a budget that I have worked very hard for
should I not join in on this forum then? I am in the Jeremy Phillips section not the locost section
P's welcome to a great forum
[Edited on 3/7/15 by peter030371]
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The Knobs
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 10:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by The KnobsCaterham are about the only 'kit car' that will not loose a shitload of money if building new.
Or at least that's what Caterham's marketing department would like you to believe.
The reality (picked at random from the current classifieds) is that you can buy a well-specced R500, that would have cost you north of £40K new, for
less than £25K, with less than 10K miles on the clock.
In other words, the OP could give his Sylva away to charity after driving it for 10K miles, and still have lost less than the Caterham.
The percentage retained value based on mileage for the average Caterham is truly, truly dreadful.
Admittedly, that's a 14-year old (though immaculate) car, but would anyone care to do the sums to see how much you'd have earned in
compound interest on £40K invested in 2001, instead of having it sat in the garage doing only 700 miles a year?
2004 Cat R500 new in 2004 cica £27K
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daniel mason
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 10:57 PM |
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£15,000 in 14 years isn't that bad in depreciation and for reference I lost £9k in 3 years on a Mitsubishi evo8 a few years back! and I'm
sure you've picked the car specifically to validate your point! We could all not spend our money on cars and sit on it.but in reality that would
be a pretty boring way to live life, the forum would die,friends would be lost,and you'd probably spend most of your time alone reading
Wikipedia.
If you were to buy a more sensible used caterham like a 1.6 roadsport then you wouldn't lose much,if anything! A new car then maybe you will!
Anyway. As for high rollers on the forum, I'm not sure? I'm certainly not one as I waste my money on racing cars.but I enjoy it
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elvadelva
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 11:18 PM |
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Hi peter030371
I certainly was not having a go at people spending whatever on their cars, I squander money on cars and sailing, I was just surprised at what was
being spent on projects on a forum listed as lowcost. Possibly a little naive of me, but when I open a can of beans, I expect beans inside. I first
Met JP back in 1984/5 when he moved to a small lockup near Lymington whilst he was building his early Leaders, he too was very cost aware back
then.
Good luck with your build
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Sam_68
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| posted on 4/7/15 at 06:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason£15,000 in 14 years isn't that bad ...
But that percentage depreciation in less than 10K miles most certainly isn't, being my point.
According to the RAC, who do the statistics, the residual value after
three years is 65%. That sounds great - up there with Audi, indeed - until you work out how much actual use the typical Caterham owner will
have got from their car, in comparison. And high-mileage Caterhams are about as easy to sell as a holiday to Syria.
Certainly, as you point out, the depreciation pretty much flat-lines after a certain point, but that happens with most kit cars - including Sylvas -
if you look after them. The main factor with older cars is the perceived desirability of the engine that has been fitted. I've owned a good few
kit cars - including both Caterham and Sylva - over the years, and I don't think I've ever made a straight loss on any of them (if
you do the man-math thing of forgetting about the effect of inflation! ), but that's been by buying once the depreciation curve has flat-lined
and someone else has taken the hit.
But The Knobs statement, and the OP, related to losses on new builds?
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Sam_68
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| posted on 4/7/15 at 06:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by elvadelva
I first Met JP back in 1984/5 when he moved to a small lockup near Lymington whilst he was building his early Leaders, he too was very cost aware
back then.
I think that's part of our problem. I still struggle not to hark back to the days when a Sylva cost you £3K to build and a Westfield maybe £4k,
and when you have that memory, it's difficult not to look at a £15K (high spec) Striker build and think 'hell, that's a lot of money
for a Sylva!'.
Part of the natural process of turning into Grumpy Old Men?
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elvadelva
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| posted on 4/7/15 at 07:20 AM |
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(I think that's part of our problem. I still struggle not to hark back to the days when a Sylva cost you £3K to build and a Westfield maybe £4k,
and when you have that memory, it's difficult not to look at a £15K (high spec) Striker build and think 'hell, that's a lot of money
for a Sylva!'.
Part of the natural process of turning into Grumpy Old Men?)
Yep, there maybe an element of truth there, But I have also been a boat owner for over 50 years and well remember when you could have a boat built for
'diddly squat' and have recently just finished a major refurb, so am fully aware of price creep ie a new headsail for two grand when the
the boat originally cost under twenty. The thing is I'm not pretending sailing has ever been lowcost. I am fully aware of todays prices, the
point I was trying to make was I suppose, that low cost car building is a stage that one progresses through, on the way to automotive perfection, I
still think it possible to build a locost car and go racing for a couple of seasons with the 750mc for the kind of budget being quoted on this forum
as the norm, this surely is not very encouraging for young hopefuls wanting to hone their building and driving skills if 15k upwards is being vaunted
as the norm for the car alone.
right, grumpy bit over, now I'm back in the shed to continue my lowcost build
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jeffw
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| posted on 4/7/15 at 07:32 AM |
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I've never actually had any interest in 'Locost' cars. The fact of the matter is that this forum tends to be the most active of the
non-specific kit car forums and as such attracts people with a variety of kits not just locost. In fact I think you will find that locost owners are
a small majority if they are in the majority at all.
And of course this is in the JP cars section not in general locost
[Edited on 4/7/15 by jeffw]
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bi22le
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| posted on 4/7/15 at 08:04 AM |
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For me, what attracted me to kit cars is the bang for buck. With this in mind all our cars, from bottom spec to 30k top spec "hicosts"
will punch far above their weight. This makes them low cost!
In my situation the car has given me everything i wanted.
- Sunday morning and sunny drives to the coadt
- Long jaunts to the ring in a head turning car, setting respectable laps
- reliable focused track day car that slaughters cars of 4 x the costs.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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elvadelva
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| posted on 4/7/15 at 08:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
I've never actually had any interest in 'Locost' cars. The fact of the matter is that this forum tends to be the most active of the
non-specific kit car forums and as such attracts people with a variety of kits not just locost. In fact I think you will find that locost owners are
a small majority if they are in the majority at all.
And of course this is in the JP cars section not in general locost
[Edited on 4/7/15 by jeffw]
Thank you, my point entirely, my original question about the term locost, on this site has been hijacked as a catch all for any car builder.
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Sam_68
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| posted on 4/7/15 at 08:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
For me, what attracted me to kit cars is the bang for buck. With this in mind all our cars, from bottom spec to 30k top spec "hicosts"
will punch far above their weight. This makes them low cost!
Yep, spot on.
To some people I know, a hi-spec Caterham is pocket money and still represents a relatively low cost 'toy' for the level of performance
and thrills it offers them. At the other end of the spectrum, for the price of a second-hand hot hatch you can build a car that, whilst not
necessarily faster in a straight line, is hard to beat a as a point-to-point machine or track day car.
The 'problem', as Jeff points out, is that this forum has become the spiritual home in the UK of all aficionados of lightweight road/track
cars.
In Australia, they refer to such cars as 'Clubbies' and the equivalent forum is 'Ozclubbies'. It probably wouldn't catch
on over here, 'cos many of us understand the term 'Clubman' to mean the highly specialised front-engined racers that own their
genetics to Mallocks, but maybe it's a pity we don't have a name that is more representative of the broad church of interests you'll
find on here.
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perksy
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| posted on 4/7/15 at 08:47 AM |
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To be fair i know of some very high spec westfields that were sold off in bits as that way the owners got more money for the car than they would if it
had been in one piece.
When i sold mine i priced it at what it was worth and if it hadn't of sold i would of broken mine...
For those in the know we all know what a cracking car the striker is but alot of folks think their too small with regards interior dimensions and look
poor with weather gear fitted (not my thoughts by the way).
You have to put some value into the build experience, Otherwise if you just want value for money you would buy one ready built, Thats *If* you could
find one near to the spec you wanted in the first place ?
[Edited on 4/7/15 by perksy]
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