Back to find a new directionMarcV - 19/7/21 at 09:41 PM
Hi All,
It has been a while since I was active on this forum while building my GKD Legend 6. Back then I was working a garagebox with limited provisions a few
miles from my home. As this hindered my progress and we found it better to not spend the money on hiring a garagebox, but on a house with garage
instead, the project was put on hold.
So in the meantime we planned and build our house (and garage) and this is nearing completion. Also in this time rules have changed in the Netherlands
and it no longer an option to get the Legend 6 on the road the way I intended back then (registration tax is going to be well over 10k Euros in
current form).
Time to revise the plans. Hopefully you guys can give some input to help me straighten my thoughts
The plan was;
1) Pleasure of building / adjusting / changing....
2) Driving pleasure
3) Low weight (due to road tax and point as above)
4) Relatively high power (engine at the moment is BMW 2.5 Straight 6)
5) Minimum of stuff in the car (no windscreen, heater, radio ...)
In the meantime a point has been added which was already a bit in my head at that time; a V8 would be nice. Especially with new european plans to ban
ICE in the not so distant future it seems to become a 'now or never' option. Having had I4, I6 and V6 before, the V8 is missing.
The list of options for the part-build I see now;
- Finish it with diesel engine (low registration tax). Not inline with 2) as above.
- Finish it as EV (no registration tax).
- Finish it as track car (no registration, but really limiting its use)
- Sell it off as part-finish
As none of the options above by itself will give a light, fun to drive, petrol car I need to get me something else (instead or as well)
- Lotus elise / Vauxhall VX220 -> great chassis, inline with requirements as above. Point 1) will probably mean I need one with shot engine or
so.
- Used Legend 6. Would allow me to transfer everything over and continue my plans without the high registration tax.
- Other used UK / Dutch kitcar. I like the 7-style, but open to other options.
On engine part my dream would be the BMW S65 engine. However, some time ago it was still hard (expensive) to run this as intended without the rest of
the M3 around it. Otherwise the Lexus engine seems a prime candidate.
As you can read, I clearly need to get some direction ;-)
Any feedback well appreciated.
Mr Whippy - 20/7/21 at 06:33 AM
Sell it, buy a built one, it will always need work so will keep you busy...
Saying that it doesn't really sound like you are after a 7 style car so maybe a production car would be more suitable and then it all depends on
your budget for a toy car.
swanny - 20/7/21 at 06:58 AM
what would the road tax be on an imported (uk) car? I wondered if you could build the car to IVA regulations in the UK, then export it to the
netherlands ?
James - 20/7/21 at 08:51 AM
quote:Originally posted by swanny
what would the road tax be on an imported (uk) car? I wondered if you could build the car to IVA regulations in the UK, then export it to the
netherlands ?
That's certainly what a few people did previously.
I wonder if Brexit may have squashed that as IIRC the above relied on the EU rules stating that one EU countries' registered car could be
registered in another EU country... that may no longer be the case.
If you can transfer a British registered car over to Dutch registration then I sure it wouldn't *have* to be a complete road-running car... ;-)
James - 20/7/21 at 08:56 AM
quote:Originally posted by MarcV
On engine part my dream would be the BMW S65 engine. However, some time ago it was still hard (expensive) to run this as intended without the rest of
the M3 around it. Otherwise the Lexus engine seems a prime candidate.
As you can read, I clearly need to get some direction ;-)
You definitely need direction... S85 is the engine you should be dreaming of!
I mean, it may grenade at any moment and become a 10k euro nightmare but hey- it's still a dream! swanny - 20/7/21 at 08:57 AM
just had a look on the kit car collection website and it seems this potential open door may have been closed by brexit:
Have you considered selling up and getting something classic instead? Our rules (fellow Dutchman here!) on engine swaps are quite relaxed for
pre-'98 cars, so you could have some fun fitting that S65 engine in a lightweight (ish) RWD chassis. If that chassis is 40+ years old: no road
tax, no low emission zone hassle. If it is 50+ years old: not MOT as well....
Suggestions:
Volvo Amazon (have a look at throttle stop garage on YouTube for inspiration)
BMW 02
MGB GT
Porsche 924 (transaxle gearbox issues though?)
Alfetta GT (transaxle as well, would be mega though, with the V8)
Most of these can be made to handle quite well and should give you the driving pleasure you are after. The Alfetta would also make you look cool as
f*** ;-)
Partofthechaos - 20/7/21 at 11:49 AM
Could you complete the build with a diesel / electric / boring petrol, and the engine swap it after registration? Would this avoid the excessive
registration tax?
nick205 - 20/7/21 at 03:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by sebastiaan
Have you considered selling up and getting something classic instead? Our rules (fellow Dutchman here!) on engine swaps are quite relaxed for
pre-'98 cars, so you could have some fun fitting that S65 engine in a lightweight (ish) RWD chassis. If that chassis is 40+ years old: no road
tax, no low emission zone hassle. If it is 50+ years old: not MOT as well....
Suggestions:
Volvo Amazon (have a look at throttle stop garage on YouTube for inspiration)
BMW 02
MGB GT
Porsche 924 (transaxle gearbox issues though?)
Alfetta GT (transaxle as well, would be mega though, with the V8)
Most of these can be made to handle quite well and should give you the driving pleasure you are after. The Alfetta would also make you look cool as
f*** ;-)
I lke your thinking!
Always had a soft spot for the ovloV Amazon station wagon
Guy Martin likes them too and has modified his considerably.
[Edited on 20/7/21 by nick205]
MarcV - 20/7/21 at 08:42 PM
Thanks for the input so far!
Some answers / feedback;
@Mr Whippy
quote:
Saying that it doesn't really sound like you are after a 7 style car so maybe a production car would be more suitable and then it all depends on
your budget for a toy car.
Why do you reckon a 7 style would not be the thing for me? Is it because somehow I like to have a V8 before they go extinct or is it something else?
In my view there are not many production cars out there (for reasonable money) that are low weight / fair to high power.
@swanny and @James;
As the link you post confirms it is the registration tax for new cars that is ridiculous. It doesn't matter where it was first registered and the
tax only slowly decays over time. Road tax for any light car is not an issue here. So it would turn into buying a car of at least some 10 years old in
the UK or any car already registered in NL.
@Partofthechaos
quote:
Could you complete the build with a diesel / electric / boring petrol, and the engine swap it after registration? Would this avoid the excessive
registration tax?
I am actually not too sure how dificult they are in engine swap in recent cars. There were plans of making even adjustment (chip-tuning etc) of the
engines a crime as you alter the emissions. That said, it would also still need many years to get that money down (they will recalculate registration
tax based on new emission and age). Doubtful route.
@James;
quote:
You definitely need direction... S85 is the engine you should be dreaming of!
The S85 would be a fun engine, but way to over-engineered. The S62 has similar characteristics, but is build with some common sense.
@sebastiaan;
quote:
Have you considered selling up and getting something classic instead?
Not really actually. Pre -98 could work for me, but real classic is not something I have in mind. Gives me the feeling I would mostly be doing
bodywork. And that part is actually not my strong point, nor my interest ;-) For say early 90s cars I also think the lightweight is difficult. Really
looking for order of 800kg.
sebastiaan - 21/7/21 at 06:55 AM
quote:Originally posted by MarcV
Thanks for the input so far!
Some answers / feedback;
@sebastiaan;
quote:
Have you considered selling up and getting something classic instead?
Not really actually. Pre -98 could work for me, but real classic is not something I have in mind. Gives me the feeling I would mostly be doing
bodywork. And that part is actually not my strong point, nor my interest ;-) For say early 90s cars I also think the lightweight is difficult. Really
looking for order of 800kg.
oddball and non-V8 suggestion: stripped out rally-like Pug 205 replica?
nick205 - 21/7/21 at 08:01 AM
quote:Originally posted by sebastiaan
quote:Originally posted by MarcV
Thanks for the input so far!
Some answers / feedback;
@sebastiaan;
quote:
Have you considered selling up and getting something classic instead?
Not really actually. Pre -98 could work for me, but real classic is not something I have in mind. Gives me the feeling I would mostly be doing
bodywork. And that part is actually not my strong point, nor my interest ;-) For say early 90s cars I also think the lightweight is difficult. Really
looking for order of 800kg.
oddball and non-V8 suggestion: stripped out rally-like Pug 205 replica?
Adore the Pug 205 GTI, always been a huge fan as my username suggests.
Had 2 1.6 GTIs in my younger years and have a1.9 GTI now (SORN (not on the road) at the moment).
Need to get the 1.9 back on the road, but I expect that will be a winter project.
So much fun to drive, so open, noisy and sharp handling nick205 - 21/7/21 at 08:03 AM
MarcV - 26/7/21 at 08:58 PM
Did some more thinking and research.
For driving pleasure I think the Lotus Elise would fit best. However, I see that prices are quite high (and even the Opel Speedster / VX220 coming
close to Elise price already) and doing modifications would probably make me feel being violent against the car / its value. So unless I can find
something which is already in a bit poor shape mechanically I think the option is out.
A Porsche boxster is remarkably cheaper and probably a rather nice drive. But again, tinkering with it (like engine swap etc) seems a bit daft.
For spanner pleasure the idea of a classic or youngtimer is pretty good. Buy an E36 coupe, drop in that V8, uprate suspension and brakes etc. I used
to own a E36 325i and it was the best driving car I have had. So not the pure driving experience, but the mechanical work experience sure it there.
I somehow still feel the 7-like kitcars are the best compromise. Light, pure driving fun and always a lot to do without feeling guilty. Cheap to own
(in sense of tax and insurance). And much more affordable to buy than for example an Elise.
nick205 - 29/7/21 at 01:56 PM
A 7 type car certainly gives you the best choice for changing things. More flexible than production road cars.
nick205 - 5/8/21 at 12:24 PM
As luck would have it a friend of a work mate has just let me have a Peugeut Mi16 engine (XU9J4) that was taking up space in his garage. Pick it up
next month with an eye for fitting it in the 205 GTI I have.
MarcV - 10/8/21 at 08:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by nick205
As luck would have it a friend of a work mate has just let me have a Peugeut Mi16 engine (XU9J4) that was taking up space in his garage. Pick it up
next month with an eye for fitting it in the 205 GTI I have.
Nice, have fun with that one!
I think my direction is also taking a bit more shape;
Any 7-type car needs an engine that screams in my opinion, so all regular V8s are out. I think a rumble doesn't suit. I was building an inline 6
in the GKD so that could still be open in a car that supports the engine size. Otherwise a high-rev inline 4 would be good as well (and most obvious
choice in the first place).
If I can find a flat-plane V8, that option would remain open. However, there seem to be few out there (lotus V8, any ferrari V8).
Otherwise a Fury type of car is an option as well. The shape of that car does combine ok with a rumbling V8. So the Lexus V8 option would be open
there.
MarcV - 18/8/21 at 10:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by sebastiaan
Have you considered selling up and getting something classic instead? Our rules (fellow Dutchman here!) on engine swaps are quite relaxed for
pre-'98 cars, so you could have some fun fitting that S65 engine in a lightweight (ish) RWD chassis. If that chassis is 40+ years old: no road
tax, no low emission zone hassle. If it is 50+ years old: not MOT as well....
Hi Sebastiaan. Where can I find a summary of the difference in engine swap rules between pre-98 and post?
Early boxsters can be found cheaply and it should be doable to find one for even less with a knackered engine (these porsche engines don't seem
to be too reliable) and dropping in an Audi V8 seems realistic and cheap. Good chassis, nice layout (mid engine, rear wheel drive). Just not that
light-weight.
sebastiaan - 19/8/21 at 07:32 AM
quote:
Eisen bij wijziging
De wettelijke basis voor het beoordelen van een wijziging is te vinden in hoofdstuk 6 van de Regeling voertuigen. De RDW toetst de aspecten, die
geraakt worden door de wijziging, aan de eisen zoals die golden ten tijde van de eerste toelating van uw voertuig. Dit is niet van toepassing bij een
wijziging naar elektrische aandrijving en inbouw van een gasinstallatie. In dat geval wordt getoetst aan de eisen die gelden op de dag van de
wijzigingskeuring. Heeft uw voertuig een datum eerste toelating van na 31 december 1997, dan toetst de RDW op:
de toelatingseisen zoals vermeld in hoofdstuk 3 van de Regeling voertuigen en op
permanente eisen zoals vermeld in hoofdstuk 5 van de Regeling voertuigen. Als uw voertuig een datum eerste toelating van voor 1 januari 1998 heeft, dan toetst de RDW op de permanente eisen. Als u bij de wijziging van
uw voertuig componenten uit een typegoedgekeurd donorvoertuig heeft gebruikt, kan de RDW besluiten om minder aspecten te beoordelen.
Permanente eisen = MOT rules, basically. But do double check with the RDW directly before embarking on a project. All this assumes a valid Dutch
registration on the "donor" Fury exists before you start your engine swap. Importing kits from the UK has become a full on (brexit)
nightmare, so start with a Dutch car. Or at least an EU registered one.
MarcV - 25/1/22 at 09:24 PM
Funds are getting there and direction is heading towards a Fury. There are ones powered by screaming bike engines up to ones powered by rover V8. Car
engine seems the direction for me to be able to use for both touring (family) as well as spirited driving (myself).
There don't seem to be many of these in NL and with two for sale at kitcarcollection it seems logical for me to visit them anytime soon.
In preparation for myself it would be usefull to know the difference throughout the years. Is there any such overview? Basically I would buy one for
registration (so pre-98 would be good, both for sale fit that bill) and upgrade later. I would like to modernise it a bit (covered headlights, newer
taillights etc) so good to know whether there are restrictions on certain age cars.
Also as my focus would be on good chassis and body it would be good to know any upgrades made to the car over the years and which one would retrofit.
For example I read somewhere about newer chassis having adjustability on front rocker arm to change castor angle, while older ones are lacking.
