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I hate this country and its archaic rule
macspeedy - 25/4/08 at 12:34 PM

Well that is me well and truely pi$$ed off.

At the end of last year i was running with nine points on my licence, with eleven days to go i get caught! 71 in a 60 on a sunday on a really straight dry bit of road. Therefore under the totting up law i should be banned. It takes the system AGES to figure this out, The police offer you a fixed pentaly which i accept, gets bouced under the totting up, local fiscal then offer same it gets bounced. Gets to court my lawyer didn't tell me you need to take the counter part of your driving licence with you, so delayed another 2 weeks. So i am licence-less for 6mths 3 points heavier and £120 lighter!!

Thing is those of you who know me know that i haven't worked for quite a while due to depression, just when i am about to get back to work and get my life on track they do this to me. What utter B******S. The judge listened to my lawyer for all the good it did.

But if you have 2 wifes its ok! FFS

sorry to not have something that brightens your day but driving points are mentioned on here quite often.

Graham



[Edited on 25/4/08 by macspeedy]

02GF74 - 25/4/08 at 12:46 PM

Oi!!! Cheer up mate. At least you weren't caught for stealing a bicycle

and if you think that is bad, take a read through this

Paul TigerB6 - 25/4/08 at 01:06 PM

Bummer....... but typical of this country to hammer the motorist at every opportunity. 6 month ban seems excessive but i dont know what the norm is to be fair.

What has your solicitor said about the length of the ban and a possible appeal??

Moorron - 25/4/08 at 01:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
Oi!!! Cheer up mate. At least you weren't caught for stealing a bicycle

and if you think that is bad, take a read through this


And there lies the cause of the first problem, if the person who owned the bike knew the police would arrest the guy who stole his bike they wouldnt have 'tought him a lesson'. Alltho death is way OTT it sent the message to his mates that they wont get off scott free. or to anyone that now even joe public have 'lost their marbels' and that the criminals arnt as untouchable as they first thought.

It depends on how you value yourself but one way to deal with your problem is to just drive a common looking car on a false plate, no tax, no insurance, no mot and a good chance of not recieving a fine. If you cant beat them then join them.

Sorry but i am having a bad day at work.

Puk - 25/4/08 at 01:49 PM

Well UK isn't all bad. I'm over here in Denmark and just returned from collecting my asthma prescription - pretty mundane stuff which in the uk sets me back £5 a pop. But here, in the high tax socialist society, where every one is taxed into equality - £100.

I guess that this counts as a thread hijack - unless we can use if for general Friday PM moaning

[Edited on 25/4/08 by Puk]

82 Locost - 25/4/08 at 01:52 PM

Unfortunatley I have to disagree to some extent. There are published laws and a lot of history on motoring offences, so a ban should have come as no surprise.

It's a shame when it happens to one of 'us', but I personally don't think it makes it any less fair.

DarrenW - 25/4/08 at 02:01 PM

i guess the timing is a bit bad if you only had 11 days to go.

Why would you have got away with it if you had 2 wives?

I recall a mate of mine getting caught at well over 100 on dual carriageway. Ended up with hefty fine a 2 week ban (or maybe it was 4 week). Did they not offer you heavier fine or some driver training?

Moorron - 25/4/08 at 02:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Puk
Well UK isn't all bad. I'm over here in Denmark and just returned from collecting my asthma prescription - pretty mundane stuff which in the uk sets me back £5 a pop. But here, in the high tax socialist society, where every one is taxed into equality - £100.

I guess that this counts as a thread hijack - unless we can use if for general Friday PM moaning

[Edited on 25/4/08 by Puk]


yeh i must admit my comments are alittle 'friday moaning' for me. as the thread has gone right off topic then get this....

Today one of our designed tippers fitted to a transit came back for a warrenty claim, the lower frame has cracked. Ive spend 10 minutes around it to come to the conclusion its been stupidly over loaded (max payload around 1200Kg), signs show its had about 3000Kg on it.

I have had to create a report on it for those in the know and what does the sales guy tell me? That its been under designed! Its legal max has been exceeded and no one has the balls to tell the customer to go and get stuffed. Instead i am blamed for not designing it right, ive wasted a day and when the boss comes back i will then have to prove it all with some FE and actual load testing to repeat the failure.

macspeedy - 25/4/08 at 02:19 PM

Man with 2 wives

macspeedy - 25/4/08 at 02:21 PM

The thing that really gets me is yes i shouldn't have been doing that speed but do we really need all these camera and all these police men sitting about taking picture of cars! There should some sort of fairness rule, there was a guy out there that racked up 38 points before he got banned 38 i say!

designer - 25/4/08 at 02:38 PM

The police are just another nationalized industry to generate revenue for the crown.

That's why I left.

I was caught doing 110 on the Paris motorway. 40euro fine and a good laugh with the policeman.

theconrodkid - 25/4/08 at 03:03 PM

bit ot i know but just heard someone has been shot dead in a "barbers shop" in harlsden.
its amazing the number of "barbers shops" there are around london,no-one has hair to cut but they are always busy....and plod is looking the other way.they will always go after the easy target

omega 24 v6 - 25/4/08 at 03:15 PM

quote:

But if you have 2 wifes its ok! FFS


Really feel for you mate this cuntry is fecked and the above quote sums the whole thing up. Or are we racists?????????
I don;t care what they say I ain't racist but I am patriotic.

Rob Lane - 25/4/08 at 03:42 PM

Sympathies Graham.

Son was given 9 points for doing a handbrake turn in an empty carpark. Girl in same court, 85mph ! in a 30 limit, fluttered eyelids and staggeringly let off with 3 points and £60 fine . Even her solicitor was speechless.

Latest from son was 18 months ago. 40 in 30 limit on open dual carriageway in Hull (Clive Sullivan Way for those who know). Pleaded guilty paid ticket. It was then returned to him along with fine as they had suddenly taken the decision to prosecute further! FFS what do they want?
We took it to court and even though everything was wrong on ticket, type of car, amount of passengers, time etc, the first of many judges gave police and CPS 3 months to come up with further evidence, later, 2 judges got fed up and gave them 7 days. Then a new judge who ignored the 7 days or else notice from the previous judges gave them till this coming Sept to come up with further evidence. So it's still ongoing and has cost thousands so far.
Son wanted to take a ban and get it over with. They won't let him, makes me wonder what they have in store !!!

Rob

Peteff - 25/4/08 at 04:53 PM

I thought double the limit was an automatic license grabber, was she topless as well.

Jon Ison - 25/4/08 at 04:55 PM

Well my recent experiences has you know have left a very bitter taste in my mouth and a bit of f**k you attitude when it comes to our friends in blue.

I have it confirmed 72 in a 70 in a VW transporter van is £60 and 3 points. Now if it was a motor home / mini bus on exactly the same chassis its just fine.

So any boys in blue on here explain ??? And don't come "we don't make the law we only enforce it" Ever heard of common sense? Pull me up and give me a talking to ? At 72 in a 70 I feel victimised, I'm sorry but you tax collecting methods alienate the general public.

Rant over.

MikeRJ - 25/4/08 at 05:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
At 72 in a 70 I feel victimised, I'm sorry but you tax collecting methods alienate the general public.


I hate the scamera pratnerships simply because they are lying, cheating scum. They have no interest in road safety, they are only concerned with catching people over an arbitrary limit (which may or may not be safe to drive at) and extracting money from them. (for the record I've not been caught by a camera....yet).

That aside, technically you were doing 72 in a 60 as that is the speed limit for a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight over 2 tonnes. Lots of van drivers have fallen foul of this, even though it's not a recent change.

smart51 - 25/4/08 at 05:43 PM

Hang on a minute, you brake the law 4 times, getting prosecuted each time with 3 points each time. Even with 9 points and knowing you'll lose your licence if caught braking the law again you do it and get caught. AND you think that the country is to blame?

I know we all like driving on here but you have to admit you've brought this on yourself. What would you think if someone had grafittied your house 4 times, been caught and prosecuted 4 times and only on the 4th time been given a punishment that should stop him doing it again, but only for 6 months?

macspeedy - 25/4/08 at 05:58 PM

I think the country needs to reform its laws, they " the police " are there to protect us, there must be so many people out there now that have lost there licence due mainly to the fact that there are shed loads of speed cameras out there now. Remember Top Gear interviewing the guy that makes the decisions about these sorts of things and he had 9! This thread was meant as a release of steam thats all. Time to dust of the push bike.

macspeedy - 25/4/08 at 06:02 PM

Another thing when i am "down south" (England that is) on the motorways if you are doing 70 you'll be passed by people doing well over this!

Graham

macspeedy - 25/4/08 at 07:12 PM

Thanks for the votes of sympathy guys

Happy locosting

I'll be back !!

Graham

davie h - 25/4/08 at 07:15 PM

this is what the targets do

rusty nuts - 25/4/08 at 07:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by davie h
this is what the targets do


Pity he didn't think what the poor train driver has had to go through.

davie h - 25/4/08 at 07:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
quote:
Originally posted by davie h
this is what the targets do


Pity he didn't think what the poor train driver has had to go through.



i agree all i was trying to point out was th effects on some by imposing strict targets

oh i,ve never been in the mind set that i wanted to kill myself but i doubt that he was thinking of anyone train driver,family ,friends or the colleagues who had to pick him up

Davie

oldtimer - 25/4/08 at 08:49 PM

Speed limits are designed to protect pedestrians and other road users, children, cyclists, motorcyclists and drivers from others and ourselves. Speed kills, speeding in urban areas kills a lot. I am not a policeman but honestly believe they are necessary - the only problem is that law abiding people stick to them and dangerous people exceed them - intentionally or not - hence the need for speed cameras. Yes, it is the job of the police to protect us.....from speeding motorists.

JoelP - 25/4/08 at 09:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Speed limits are designed to protect pedestrians and other road users, children, cyclists, motorcyclists and drivers from others and ourselves. Speed kills, speeding in urban areas kills a lot. I am not a policeman but honestly believe they are necessary - the only problem is that law abiding people stick to them and dangerous people exceed them - intentionally or not - hence the need for speed cameras. Yes, it is the job of the police to protect us.....from speeding motorists.


there's a time and a place for speed limits. This isnt one of them

The dangerous drivers i see day in day out arent usually the ones going too fast. In fact, i dont recall seeing anyone going dangerously fast recently, though admittedly im always on motorways where the goalposts are different. The near misses i see most often are people not seeing cars in their blind spots, and a similar theme, people making snap decisions without being fully aware of what is happening around them.

Last two times where ive nearly crashed were someone missing a junction and doing an emergency stop in the 3rd lane, and a lorry pulling out of a layby and forcing another car into my path. Both times saw me hurtling past on the central reservation. My speed would've aggrevated the incidents but not have caused either.

robinj66 - 25/4/08 at 09:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
6 month ban seems excessive but i dont know what the norm is to be fair.




Unfortunately the minimum ban for a "totter" (acruing 12 points or more) is 6 months for the first time.

the second time, the minimum is 12 months;

the third time, the minimum is 2 years.

David Jenkins - 25/4/08 at 09:37 PM

I'm an old fogey in training (got quite a few years to do yet before I get my diploma) but I can still remember when I was a new driver.

I recall very clearly that if I did something silly there was a very significant chance that I would get pulled over by a policeman. Also, if I had a car fault like a blown indicator or dud headlight I'd get pulled within a week and given a 7-day wonder. Nowadays you rarely see a police car on patrol, and every day I see the same old cars with headlights gone - a significant number running on fog lights because both dipped headlights are blown! (I kid you not). After a while, if people realise that they can get away with the little crimes, they move onto bigger crimes.

This is not a pop at the police themselves, but at their most senior bosses (probably the government) who think that machines and paperwork are more useful than people out on the beat. The bean counters have destroyed the whole system of effective policing.

I have a strong memory of a holiday in a village in Bavaria, just next to the Austrian border. Every evening, at some random time, a patrol car drove down one side of the main street. The passenger had his window wound down and was peering into every doorway and alley, with a torch where necessary. A little later he drove back and checked out the other side. When was the last time that a UK cop was able to do checks like that?

This attitude has a strong ripple effect: I remember hearing a small motorbike approaching this village with engine screaming: as he got to the 50kph sign you could hear the bike quieten down. He then trundled through until he got to the end-of-village sign, at which point he roared off again. Why? Because he knew that there was a fair chance that there would be a police car around, and he didn't want to get pulled.

Another example was shown in the papers and on the local news - a UK policeman had joined a US police force and was a lot happier. On reason was the lack of paperwork: if he arrested someone in the UK he could look forward to several hours of paperwork. In the US he had 20 minutes, maximum. He handed the villain over to the desk sergeant who dealt with all that - 30 minutes later he was back out on the road looking for baddies again.

I'm quite sure that the men and women in the police would much rather do more practical policing...

<end rant>

PS: I've just got back from the pub, so apologies for any sign of rambling!

[Edited on 25/4/08 by David Jenkins]

smart51 - 25/4/08 at 09:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Scoobylav
... an artic almost rear end a rover as it (the rover) must have been doing all of 35mph. Blinkin ridiculous. Almost caused a major pileup with everyone hitting the anchors.


Clearly the fault of the artic not the Rover. You are responsible for watching the road ahead. If you come up behind slower traffic, you are responsible for adjusting your speed and overtaking where safe. If he had to "slam on his anchors" he wasn't watching where he was going enough. If others had to do the same to avoid the artic, they too weren't driving well enough.

Despite being a nuisance, the Rover is perfectly entitled to drive slowly and is not the cause of accidents by other drivers. The law is very clear on this point.

Jon Ison - 25/4/08 at 09:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Speed limits are designed to protect pedestrians and other road users, children, cyclists, motorcyclists and drivers from others and ourselves. Speed kills, speeding in urban areas kills a lot. I am not a policeman but honestly believe they are necessary - the only problem is that law abiding people stick to them and dangerous people exceed them - intentionally or not - hence the need for speed cameras. Yes, it is the job of the police to protect us.....from speeding motorists.



I take it you have never found yourself over the limit then ? Well done, your the only person in GB that as managed to do so. I got nabbed on a brand new duel carriageway the nearest thing to me was a couple of sheep, 6 miles on a school, where should they be enforcing the law ? Protect the sheep or the children ?

ps I was a massive 2mph over what I genuinely thought to be the speed limit and have still to speak to anyone (unless they have been caught out like myself) who was aware a van as different speed limits to a car ?

[Edited on 25/4/08 by Jon Ison]

D Beddows - 25/4/08 at 10:15 PM

To get back to the original post for a moment ...... I really do have every sympathy but I'm afraid if I was one speeding offence away from a ban I would be driving everywhere like a nervous pensioner on a day out to the seaside in a Rover 200 with my bowling club mates

JoelP - 25/4/08 at 10:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by Scoobylav
... an artic almost rear end a rover as it (the rover) must have been doing all of 35mph. Blinkin ridiculous. Almost caused a major pileup with everyone hitting the anchors.


Clearly the fault of the artic not the Rover. You are responsible for watching the road ahead. If you come up behind slower traffic, you are responsible for adjusting your speed and overtaking where safe. If he had to "slam on his anchors" he wasn't watching where he was going enough. If others had to do the same to avoid the artic, they too weren't driving well enough.

Despite being a nuisance, the Rover is perfectly entitled to drive slowly and is not the cause of accidents by other drivers. The law is very clear on this point.


The law is an ass. I get pissed off enough by people who do 70, but going slower than the HGVs is totally unacceptable. They waste hundreds of man hours over the couse of a year, and there is no reason to justify travelling so slow.

The law does not define right and wrong, it is merely a list of instructions devised over the years. Just because most laws are fair doesnt mean they all are. Hence i dont feel compelled to obey the law where i dont agree with it.

D Beddows - 25/4/08 at 10:35 PM

And HGVs overtaking another HGVs but only going going .25 mph faster so taking 5 miles or so and effectively blocking 2 lanes of a 3 lane motorway while they do doesn't waste thousands of man hours a year??






[Edited on 25/4/08 by D Beddows]

JoelP - 25/4/08 at 10:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
And HGVs overtaking another HGVs but only going going .25 mph faster for 5 miles or so and effectively blocking 2 lanes of a 3 lane motorway while they do doesn't waste hundreds of man hours a year??



[Edited on 25/4/08 by D Beddows]


did i imply that it wouldnt?

if you thought before you typed, you'd realise that both situation put HGVs in the middle lane and cause delays.

[Edited on 25/4/08 by JoelP]

D Beddows - 25/4/08 at 10:55 PM

Yeah but you have just said that people who obey the speed limit annoy you and that the speed you drive would actually have made a couple of potential accidents worse than they had the potential to have been...... Personally I 'm not sure that's either especially big or clever tbh

mangogrooveworkshop - 25/4/08 at 11:26 PM

roll on 25 october

JoelP - 25/4/08 at 11:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
Yeah but you have just said that people who obey the speed limit annoy you and that the speed you drive would actually have made a couple of potential accidents worse than they had the potential to have been...... Personally I 'm not sure that's either especially big or clever tbh


Well if thats what you meant you should've said it first time!

Im not perfect, i started as a very irresponsible driver, driving beyond my ability. With experience ive improved my standards greatly, curtailing the more extreme driving antics, and indeed i rarely exceed the limit in urban situations. Theres undoubtedly room for improvement in motorway habits, but at the risk of sounding overconfident (and indeed a complete twat) i feel i balance risks well on the road.

[Edited on 25/4/08 by JoelP]

oldtimer - 26/4/08 at 06:24 AM

I am pretty appauled by pro speeding sentiments. Speed limits are set for safety not to reduce our enjoyment. As an ex firefighter I can assure you that cutting the bodies of speeders out of cars is pretty awful, cutting out of twisted wrecks the bodies of innocent people killed by speeders is even more heartbreaking. I believe that anyone who thinks speeding on our roads is accectable needs retraining, the IAM come to mind. Anyone who has been 'caught' by a camera in a bright yellow box stuck up a pole should accept that their observational skills on the road are very poor, again, retraining and the IAM come to mind. Keep speed on the track.

Jon Ison - 26/4/08 at 08:24 AM

quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
I am pretty appauled by pro speeding sentiments. Speed limits are set for safety not to reduce our enjoyment. As an ex firefighter I can assure you that cutting the bodies of speeders out of cars is pretty awful, cutting out of twisted wrecks the bodies of innocent people killed by speeders is even more heartbreaking. I believe that anyone who thinks speeding on our roads is accectable needs retraining, the IAM come to mind. Anyone who has been 'caught' by a camera in a bright yellow box stuck up a pole should accept that their observational skills on the road are very poor, again, retraining and the IAM come to mind. Keep speed on the track.


Have you ever found yourself inadvertently or otherwise over the speed limit ? I was clocked by a van which I did see doing 72 in what I genuinely believed to be a 70.

I agree 100% re urban areas etc but there are area's where the limit is ass, I suggest by your soapbox stance your one of those guys that sit in the 3rd lane of a motoryway at 69.9mph with a que a mile long behind you and the inside two lanes clear thinking to your self "its 70, your staying behind"

MikeRJ - 26/4/08 at 01:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Speed kills


Sorry but this is the crap that the Scamera Prats, and emotionaly crippled fools such as Brake trot out. Speed quite clearly does not kill, otherwise we would all be dead.

Inappropriate speed for the conditions is certainly likely to increase the risk of serious accidents and deaths. However, the inappropriate speed may be above or below the arbitrary number stuck on a post at the side of the road. In particular, 30mph is very often too fast in urban areas, but 90mph may carry negligible risk on a motorway in the right conditions.

The focus on speed alone is a clear sign that there is little interest in road saftey, and the fact that road deaths have remained largely staic for many years (despite large advances in vehicle saftey) shows that it doesn't work anyway.

Scrapping all automated speed enforcement and replacing it with real traffic coppers is the only way that the truly dangerous driving that does cause deaths will be reduced. Unfortunately that costs money rather than generates it, so it's a non-starter.

JoelP - 26/4/08 at 03:51 PM

here here

or is that hear hear?

[Edited on 26/4/08 by JoelP]

Peteff - 26/4/08 at 05:26 PM

I got pulled up for speeding but it was by a real policeman who told me off and gave me a producer. I try not to speed now and am amazed at the number of people who try to get you to go faster by driving closer and closer to the back bumper. I watch them drumming their fingers on the steering wheel and muttering to themselves and think how wound up they must be. If you had to be somewhere at a certain time you should set off earlier is my take. If you get caught live with it, it was your turn.

smart51 - 26/4/08 at 08:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
I suggest by your soapbox stance your one of those guys that sit in the 3rd lane of a motoryway at 69.9mph with a queue a mile long behind you and the inside two lanes clear thinking to your self "its 70, your staying behind"


A stickler for the law would know that the right hand lane is for overtaking only/ He or she would surely move left when appropriate ()

JoelP - 26/4/08 at 08:26 PM

^^^ if only!

mangogrooveworkshop - 1/5/08 at 09:30 AM

well kinda says it all

[Edited on 1-5-08 by mangogrooveworkshop]