theduck
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 10:42 AM |
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Advice needed for a newbie
Hi everyone, I have for as long as I can remember, wanted to build a kit car, and have recently been doing a lot of reading into it. I have read
numerous build blogs and also an MK Indy build manual.
The problem I am having, is I want a kit I can put together, without needing to source places to do extra modification, and from reading the MK build
blogs and build manual, it seems this isnt going to be the kit for me, as although MK do some of the modifications needed like the prop etc. but from
reading the build manual it seems there are further modifications needed to the engine itself, namely shortening the sump and couple other bits. Its
these things that are putting me off, as I dont have the right contacts to do them for me. It also seemed reading the blogs that there are lots of
other little bits that would need making along the way, and this for me, as my first build, isnt for me, as I feel I will end up spending a lot on
having these extras done.
Therefore I am now looking at other options. I have seen the Great British Sports Car Zero, which seems to be rather cheap considering you can buy it
as a comeplete kit? Though I realise these used to be Robin Hood, and that when they were Robin Hood they didnt have the best reputation, is this
still the case? Are there any other options I have other than the obvious Westfield and Caterham that I can buy as a complete kit? With any of
these complete kits, will I still need to have things modified, or will I then 'simply' have to build it?
Thanks in advance for your help.
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snapper
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 10:50 AM |
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GBS have a very different ethos to Robin Hood as was and the Zero has been built by many into a very good car.
It is very similar to any spaceframe 7 and as such the quality is what you as the builder make it.
Good value for the money.
I would caution you that no car available is a true bolt together option except for perhaps a Westfield or a and you pay for the privilege.
The first build is always more difficult in your mind than in
reality, it would be well worth joining a local kit car club
for real practical help and advice.
Put you location in your profile so people can see roughly where you are, go and have a look at peoples cars and get to the kit car shows next
year.
[Edited on 31/12/10 by snapper]
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Stott
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 10:57 AM |
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I can't comment on the absolute easiest other than a Westy or Caterham is a bit like Ikea furniture which sounds like what you want.
There isn't and hasn't been a Robin Hood/GBSC that is a complete kit and requires just building. The complete kit claim for a few
manufacturers is a bit misleading in my opinion.
It's a time vs skill vs cost thing. If you spend sh1t loads on a Caterham or Westy then great, it'll fly together in a few days probably
and you'll have a car but an empty wallet.
If you bought an MK for instance then you could build what you're capable of doing, get the prop done professionally, buy a shortened sump or
get it done professionally ( contacts for anything you need can be found on here) etc etc. This way you'd have a nice car that took longer to
build but you will have lot of money left over even after paying for the bit's to be done that you can't manage and buying proper tools
like a welder etc. You'd also learn a hell of a lot more along the way which will set you up for the next one.
ATB
Stott
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RichardK
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 11:00 AM |
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This may sound crazy but have you thought about an already built registered car and tearing it apart as soon as you get it, I would want to do this
any way to check its all safe and you can modify stuff the way you want it as you go along.
No need to iva
Better value for money
Got all the bits that fit together already
Satisfaction that you have built yourself.
Something to think about mate.
Oh and welcome...
Cheers
Rich
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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franky
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 11:15 AM |
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You can buy a complete kit for a GKD legend 4 and build with a 140bhp 1.9.
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theduck
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 11:36 AM |
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Thank you for all the replies!
RichardK - That is actually something I am considering, so not a crazy idea.
Stott - I see what your saying, but from what I have gathered so far, to build a GOOD MK will cost me £8k-10k, and this will still be using parts from
an old sierra, where as for an £13k I can buy a complete Caterham kit which is all new parts, the extra then seems worth it, especially as it removes
the hassle factor of getting bits modified.
Franky - I have looked at GKD, but again, the price makes me think I might be better spending the extra on a caterham.
I think you have all answered my question very quickly, which is, for me, I need to either stump up the cash for a Caterham or Westfield ( I live
10minutes from Westfields factory so its very tempting to buy one of these) or buy a second hand one and strip it down.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 11:38 AM |
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mnr are a good option also! they can be bought as a complete kit i think, with engine cradle/mounts for your install. in on my fist build and its
going ok at the moment. the only mods i have had to do is to shorten prop shaft which is the same with any car, and to modfy drive shafts to suit my
honda diff. everything else has just bolted together fine!
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ReMan
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 11:42 AM |
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As said, if you simply want an Airfix style kit then pay ££ for a Westfield or Carteraham.
Nevertheless I dont think you are any different from the majority as they start out with doubts and lack of confidence about their ability and
concerns about what you get "in the box"
Unless you don't know one end of a screwdriver from the other, or want to complete in a fortnight then you'll find that most of the 7
style kits are about as complete as they can be and MK are as good if not better than some as far as modding the parts and helping you generally.
Putting mine together certainly did'nt need welding, turning or painting equipment at home.
Also as you've found this site, this is about as much help as you could get for anything in one place on the whole interweb.
Good luck
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 11:54 AM |
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Where abouts are you?
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Stott
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 12:01 PM |
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Fair enough, if it came down to 3K difference I'd buy a Caterham too. Even better if it's on a new plate at that price.
TBH if I had the dough there would be one sat in my garage now.
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theduck
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 12:19 PM |
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Stott - Thats my thinking also, though if it comes down to that, I will probably buy a second hand built car.
Tomgregory - I am near Birmingham, have updated my profile now.
Daniel - Thanks, will have a look at MNR
ReMan - My concern is that by the time I have finished buying all the extra bits and paying for the modifications required to the engine, that I will
be so close to the cost of a caterham/westfield, that I should have just gone that route for simiplicity and with westfield being so close, a helping
hand nearby. I understand from the hellfire blog that MK are very helpful, but they are so far away from me, it wouldnt be easy for me to make use of
their services during the build.
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chesney321
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 12:28 PM |
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aries motorsport do a nice car.i am building a locoblade at the minute.you dont have to fabricate anything steve does it all for you.you can buy the
parts as and when you can afford it,and steve will source all the donor parts that you may require.he will even build a car for you i suppose if you
asked him to.any problems you may have he will try to sort straight away.
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chesney321
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 12:32 PM |
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forgot to say you can buy the whole kit in one go if you want as steve has recently shipped a full kit out to portugal.look up happyblade the build
diary on google
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 12:33 PM |
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Depreciation
If you take into account , saleability and depreciation , Caterham is the only sensible option at your price point, well made and developed cars with
good old Lotus pedigree. Resale value excellent ,depreciation very low.
Westfield just a production version of a Locost really , not the same league as Caterham ( a cart horse compared to Caterhams racehorse!!) , latest
production version recently completely slated on Fifth Gear by Jason Plato , quite rightly too it was dire. resale value not good .
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jono2020
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 12:38 PM |
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I live just near Birmingham too so my first consideration was the Westfield because of how close the factory was but unfortunately I was too impatient
and too eager to get driving one I brought one already built (Tiger Avon). My advice as a Noobie too is to come down to the South Brum get together in
Redditch and come and have a look at some of the cars and have a chat to some people who have built them. I havent been yet so im planning on going in
Feb/March when my car is back on the road. The biggest thing that put me off building one was getting to a point where I was well in over my head and
had no idea what has gone wrong... I have 0 mechanical knowledge really so it was my confidence that stopped me so I can relate, but after being on
this forum a while I could say that there is enough people on here that have more than likely had alot worse problems and managed to solve them from
asking the question on here.
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Stott
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 12:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
If you take into account , saleability and depreciation , Caterham is the only sensible option at your price point, well made and developed cars with
good old Lotus pedigree. Resale value excellent ,depreciation very low.
Westfield just a production version of a Locost really , not the same league as Caterham ( a cart horse compared to Caterhams racehorse!!) , latest
production version recently completely slated on Fifth Gear by Jason Plato , quite rightly too it was dire. resale value not good .
Yeah I didn't want to go on about it too much cos the Caterham fans tend to get shot at on here lol but I absolutely love em. They just look so
perfect IMO, and they don't half hang on to their value
Check this out, I think it's on my favourite wheels too..... Caterham Seven Vauxhall HPC 2.0L - 1992 - Factory Built on
eBay (end time 14-Jan-11 13:22:37 GMT)
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scootz
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 01:06 PM |
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Let's be realistic here, buying one of the Caterham kits may be a (much) greater initial outlay of cash, but you know EXACTLY what your car is
going to cost, you'll built it in a fortnight, all the parts are there (AND WILL FIT), it will look superb, it has very healthy resale value,
and it will handle straight out of the box (assuming you've followed the build manual!). Sure, the engine choice may be a little bit dull, but
straight-line speed is not what it's all about!
The MK's, etc. of this world catch your eye on initial price, but there will need to be a bit of fiddling to get the parts to fit, you still
have plenty of bits to source, build instructions are not so hot, it will take the uninitiated a fair while to build it, and it is unlikely to handle
straight out of the box. Whatever you think it will cost - it won't! It could easily end up costing as much as that Caterham or EVEN MORE!
Yes, it'll go like stink in a straight line if you fit the latest Itchyfanny 1400RR bike engine, but it will only go round corners if you know
how to set-cars up... if not, that'll cost you more still! And then there's the re-sale value - a complete and utter unknown!
It's Evolution Baby!
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franky
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 01:09 PM |
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Caterhams and to some degree westfields might hold their money but they cost so much more that it almost negates the depreciation.
A well the 5th gear westfield was 28k!!! now thats going to loose at least 10k straight away. A R500 with a few options is 45+k. Look how many are
for sale for about £28k, thats 18k down the pan.
When I did loads of research its a bit of a misconception to a point. If you want safe money buy a caterham for about 8k. It'll be old and a
poverty spec but you won't loose much money.
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HappyFather
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 02:12 PM |
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One more vote for Aries Motorsport
Hello!
I was on the same boat, kind of. No mechanical knowledge, having to build on an open parking space on the building's parking lot, so
couldn't weld or do strange fabrications. Besides, finding parts in Portugal is not as easy as in the UK because we don't have the
wonderful specialist market you have.
I went to Stoneleigh to check cars and talk with people about having a "car in a box" shipped to Portugal. I also visited Aries because
they were not going to be on Stoneleigh. I had several things I wanted on the car, one of them being a bike engine and a reverse box, which means the
car would be a bit more expensive than with a car engine.
I bought an Aries Locoblade from Aries Motorsport. If you check my build
diary, that chesney321 already mentioned, you'll see that I bought a box with everything needed (except tools). The bike engine came with
the car, already with a proper sump and reinforced clutch plate. And all used parts were refurbished and painted.
And everytime I have had doubts about things, I emailed Steve Huckerby from Aries (phone calls to the UK are expensive) and he replied with proper
instructions and sometimes even photos on the following 24h. The fact that the Locoblade has no build manual is no issue since between Steve, Chris
Gibbs' book and this forum, there is not much more you'll need.
And Steve will help you out going through IVA to get the car on the road.
I should mention that the runner up to Aries was MNR. I liked their kit more than MK, they were nicer and they replied to my emails.
A last note... Buying a kit in a box means you'll spend more money than buying some parts and then hunting the market for the rest. You may find
cheaper seats or wheels or tires or whatever from a different vendor. But that will mean hunting around and the risk of buying something that may not
be the best. It's a trade-off.
I wish you the best on your decision! Have fun and a great 2011!
HappyFather
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scootz
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 02:13 PM |
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Sure Franky, but you're looking at the Top-Dogs in the range! You can get a new Classic Kit for £13.5k upwards!
It's Evolution Baby!
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franky
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 02:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Sure Franky, but you're looking at the Top-Dogs in the range! You can get a new Classic Kit for £13.5k upwards!
of course, where else would you look However look at what you can build for less, with plenty of change for set-up etc. Most caterhams need
setting up after a build too.
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theduck
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 03:04 PM |
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Franky, how much less though? From what I have read, your talking maybe £3k less? For me, thats not worth it.
HappyFather, yours sounds a very interesting option. Do you mind me asking how much the full kit cost?
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franky
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 03:09 PM |
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A basic mk/mnr/gkd/ etc etc would be about 5k less. For less than 13.5k you can build a car with a huge spec.
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HappyFather
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 03:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theduck
HappyFather, yours sounds a very interesting option. Do you mind me asking how much the full kit cost?
U2U sent. 
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 31/12/10 at 05:36 PM |
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Ive seen some very nice car engined MK's MNR's and Mac 1's etc on here and at shows, built for as little £5000 for a basic car,up to
around £8000 for the top spec car, for example I know you could build MK Indy with a brand new 130bhp 2litre Zetec engine, for around £6500. Its also
worth remembering the Caterham kit at £13500 is a very basic car, add a £1000+ for a screen and weather gear, another £300 for a heater and demisters,
its only a asthmatic 1400cc and 105bhp engine, add another £1000 if you want a little less asthmatic 1600cc and 120bhp , another £1000 for a LSD, so
your £13500 can soon turn into £17000+
Don't get me wrong, I think both Caterhams and Westfields are great cars, if you have the money, they have good residuals, but so do all the
other buget Sevens, your £6500 Zetec Indy or Mac1 or MNR for example, Ive no doubt you could run it a couple of years,then sell it, and still get your
money back, now thats value for money motoring.
But I would say the main advantage of building a buget type seven, is you can decide on the spec, you have more control on the costs, the way it
looks, its your car, individuality, each car says something about its builder, unlike the Caterham kits, but like everthing, you pays your money and
makes your choice.
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