Hi everyone, I've done some searching but have decided its time to tap your collective fountain of knowlege

I am planning to build a road legal single seater, its a long term project and has slowed somewhat as we have just had our first baby.

What i'm after is peoples views on Honda bike engines for the middy single seater..
Budget is a major factor but so is reliability, so as with most people I would like the best possible for the least money.

Fireblade is a firm favouritebut which one, how strong is the box? what mods are needed?
Blackbird, hmmm read lots of stories of them going bang, what needs modding to stop it.
SP1/SP2 not sure on this one as the different layout may couse problems with the bodyshape.

Are there any others to consider, remember I want a Honda unless there is another reliable cheap engine that stands head and shoulders above them.

Thanks

You'll get alot of info here but give Andy Bates at AP Performance a ring..... He'll advise as to what mods etc.. are needed and his personal opinion which i would say is very valuable!

personal experiance fireblade weak gearbox
blackbird weak oil pump
could try a pan european maybe too slow
suggestions yamaha fj1300 , r1
kawasaki zx 9

919 carbed blade mate. highly tunable, cheap and reliable. a good tuned up blade would give even a hyabusa a run for its money!

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Originally posted by snoopy

could try a pan european maybe too slow

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eddie99 is bang on pal. speak to andy, hes a wizard when it comes to blade engines. was round his this morn with mine, top bloke too!

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Originally posted by MakeEverything

quote:

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Originally posted by snoopy

could try a pan european maybe too slow

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ST1300 isnt slow by any imagination.

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thats it then if it has to be honda go pan european



[Edited on 6/3/11 by snoopy]

Another vote for the ST engine from me - strong enough for your needs and cheaper than the more mainstream stuff (blades, balckbird etc.) because less people are after them.

Looks great too!

i run a 954 blade engine in my MK, had it for 3 years now and its never missed a beat, don't agree about weak gearbox, ive done over a 100 laps at Knockhill running under 60 sec lap times and hours of fast road driving, seems pretty bullet proof to me. Went for this engine on the advice of a bike tech.

stolen from a pistonheads thread



http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&f=30&t=781289&mid=0&nmt=Fireblade%20or%20Blackbird/R1%20config%20pros%20cons%20%2 0?

Right, I assume that you mean a 893 or 919 Fireblade motor. Yes, it doesn't get any more simple than this. There are more parts available off the shelf for this than anything else this side of a Hayabusa. The one thing that you haven't mentioned is weak gearboxes. By the same token the carbs aren't a major issue as far as I'm aware.

You shouldn't really include the R1 and the Blackbird in the same catagory - they may make similar power but have very different things to consider. The major consideration on the Blackbird is the need for a dry sump. They are notorious for going bang when the engine is turned the 'wrong' way without them. They are also relatively heavy but sound fabulous, even for a bike motor.

As for the R1, assuming that you rule-out the carb-fed 4XV and 5JJ which are very good motors in their own right, you then have a choice between the 2002-03 motor which was an injected version of the engine that went before it or the later engine. The later engine will just about make more power, although the difference will not be as great as the manufacturer's figures suggest - in a car the later engine does not benefit from the ram-air effect as it does on the bike. The later engines also require some mods to sort out the breathing which can be very heavy.

To answer this much more fully would take an age because you there's a lot to consider even before you open-up the discussion to the CBR1000R Fireblade (race proven but VERY tall) and other alternatives like the ZX-10R (Fab but requires high final drive) and ZX-12R (possibly the best bargain of the lot.)

ETA: this is bound to have been covered-off on here previously, and if it hasn't, get yourself to www.locostbuilders.co.uk where it certainly has.

[Edited on 6/3/11 by snoopy]

I have been looking at the 929/954 blade.
Looking at the pan engine it could be a bit wide across the heads as its going in the back and i was planning on using a chain drive diff so not sure how the shaft would transfer power and affect engine location to line up with a conventional diff.
I'll keep looking

The best bet would be to work out how much money you want to spend.

I was planning on getting a ZX10-R but went for a Fireblade 919cc when all was said and done due to cost implications, it was literally half the price for 90% of the performane of a new 1000cc unit.

As has been said speak top Andy at AB Performance, he was a massive help although he does now have all of my money.

all i have to add is i have a 919 blade engine in my mk and it goes like s**t of a shiney shovel!!

Glad to here peoples views on the blade engines.

As it will be a single seater I should have less weight to get moving so the 919/929/954 should be more than capable

I have an SP1 engine and clocks going spare Simon... not looking for a great deal for them if you're interested.