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Bad week for my 7 :(
-matt - 11/6/13 at 07:35 PM

Not having a good week with the MK. Went for a drive on Friday went to stop at a junction and the clutch went straight to the floor! The cable snapped where it went into the factory soldered union/barrel, luckily was about 1/2 mile from my old mans house, so nearly killed myself pushing it there! And managed to solder another union on, and all seemed good. In fact it seemed much better than before, I think it must have been binding on something.

Then decide to drive the 7 to work yesterday, get onto a busy roundabout about 2 miles from work, and what happens, the clutch goes to the floor. Being that I was in 1st I thought I would try getting going off the starter motor, and was amazed at how easily I got going and did the last 2 miles in 1st gear! Had a look and the other bloody end had snapped!! Managed to get home by starter motor and 2nd gear and learned how to do clutch less shifts which are actually amazingly easy in a BEC.

Just went out to fix the cable again and noticed a puddle of oil, trying to workout where it had come from, and noticed the bloody oil filler cap had decided it didn't want to live in its plug anymore!!

So what else is going to go wrong, after I get a new oil cap and clutch cable?

bi22le - 11/6/13 at 08:37 PM

Dont try and second guess a car and its faults, it will always be something you didnt plan for.

I carry with me a bag of choice spares and tools. Due to me investing in this tool kit and spares my car has not gone wrong once!!

02GF74 - 11/6/13 at 09:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by -matt
.... Being that I was in 1st I thought I would try getting going off the starter motor, and was amazed at how easily I got going and did the last 2 miles in 1st gear! Had a look and the other bloody end had snapped!! Managed to get home by starter motor and 2nd gear and learned how to do clutch less shifts which are actually amazingly easy in a BEC.



in the olden days, when cars (and bikes) were less reliable people used to do clutchless changes all the time, just takes some practrice to match engine - gearbox speed - even easier on bikes, in fact, don't racers do that all the time?

HowardB - 11/6/13 at 09:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by -matt
.... Being that I was in 1st I thought I would try getting going off the starter motor, and was amazed at how easily I got going and did the last 2 miles in 1st gear! Had a look and the other bloody end had snapped!! Managed to get home by starter motor and 2nd gear and learned how to do clutch less shifts which are actually amazingly easy in a BEC.



in the olden days, when cars (and bikes) were less reliable people used to do clutchless changes all the time, just takes some practrice to match engine - gearbox speed - even easier on bikes, in fact, don't racers do that all the time?


Agree, used to change gear in the land rover using the floor mounted dipswitch all the time, and that was a non-synchro box.,. also on the 57 plate passat when the clutch went the main stealers were unable to see it for 2 weeks, I did over 1500 clutch free miles in it,...

so it can be done, it is like driving in snow, practice when you can and don't have to be somewhere,..

Simon - 11/6/13 at 09:23 PM

When I had motorbikes I rarely used the clutch on the move, just for starting off. Clutchless changes so easy, it's hardly worth the effort of pulling in the clutch

ATB

Simon

-matt - 11/6/13 at 10:37 PM

Yea I agree now, I knew people do the up shifts clutch less, it was the downshifts I was worried about. But gave it a bit of gas, gentle pressure on the lever and went straight into gear.

craig1410 - 12/6/13 at 12:51 AM

I do clutchless changes every day in my Toyota Aygo, it's not just a BEC activity. Up shifts are an absolute doddle and downshifts are pretty easy too. I even do it in stop-start traffic queues. When I was about 20 I had a clutch cable failure in rush hour in Glasgow and managed to drive 10 miles through the city to buy a new cable, fit it and drive home. Just used 1st gear and starter when starting from stopped and did clutchless changes once running. No big deal.

Part of my reason is the Aygo's weak clutch so I'm trying to minimise wear. It also saves a bit of left leg work!

snapper - 12/6/13 at 06:02 AM

I don't think soldering a clutch cable is good
A proper crimped joint or on a handbrake cable I drilled a bolt threaded the cable through the hole I drilled smacked it twice with a blunt chisel then mig welded back the tail.

dhutch - 12/6/13 at 09:39 AM

I agree that there is no need to be pessimistic with assumption more issues will follow, if you did two miles in 1st, you where probably running at high revs, which alone may have loosened the filler cap.

Never driven a BEC, but particularly on the upshift clutch less is common on bikes.

And even with a working clutch I used to start the 306 in gear on a cold day as standard due to a shot idle control valve, as you say, its more or less a non-event. With the three 306 is was a case of foot in, ignition, hope you could get out of the end of the road without stopping. Come the next junction it was getting warm enough to consider idling.....



Daniel

Bluemoon - 12/6/13 at 10:03 AM

It is a kitcar all part of ownership charater building and all that.

To be fair if it's snapped twice I would want to find out why, do you have a stop on the clutch peddle at the end of it's travel?

If not this maybe your problem (you can put a lot of force on the cable with your foot.).

Dan

02GF74 - 12/6/13 at 06:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bluemoon

To be fair if it's snapped twice I would want to find out why, do you have a stop on the clutch peddle at the end of it's travel?



>>> The cable snapped where it went into the factory soldered union/barrel,

soldering will turn the cable to a solid rod that is more liable to snapping if it is being bent - can you not use a crimp on cable end? or buy cable that has one alread fitted on and thread it through the outer?

whitestu - 12/6/13 at 08:12 PM

If you can make it fit a BEC Capri clutch cables are strong, cheap and come with adjusters.

Stu

Bluemoon - 13/6/13 at 08:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by Bluemoon

To be fair if it's snapped twice I would want to find out why, do you have a stop on the clutch pedal at the end of it's travel?



>>> The cable snapped where it went into the factory soldered union/barrel,

soldering will turn the cable to a solid rod that is more liable to snapping if it is being bent - can you not use a crimp on cable end? or buy cable that has one alread fitted on and thread it through the outer?


Agree but you should not be bending the cable close to the nipple; it will fail in the end with or without solder.

Also if soldered correctly you don't get this wicking effect (not easy though you need a LOT of heat quickly, i.e. soldering irons used for electronics/PCBs are out).

I think you should find bolt on nipples for go-karts if you look.

Bike clutches I would guess operate with hand levers, cars with the foot, quite a big difference in force available. Having a mechanical end stop that's not the cable will be essential (i.e. on the pedal). I would hazard a guess you risk damage to more than the cable?

Re Capri cable: Replacing with a stronger cable is all well and good but if it was good enough for the bike then the problem is else were, and you risk straining something on the Bike engine clutch mechanism. i.e. with a pedal stop this is an option.

Dan

[Edited on 13/6/13 by Bluemoon]

procomp - 13/6/13 at 09:24 AM

Hi.

Most of the MK Indy R pedal boxes have this common problem. Which gets worse as you depress the clutch pedal. This factory built race car was doing a clutch cable every 50 miles. Typical MK quality engineering .

Cheers Matt


[img]http:// Description
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R1_striker - 13/6/13 at 11:34 AM

i drove mine 11 miles home the other day with the throttle cable coming from under the bonnet over the dash and me trying to pull the inner part!! Still managed a couple of over takes

Amazing how many traffic cops appear when this sort of thing happens

40inches - 13/6/13 at 12:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi.

Most of the MK Indy R pedal boxes have this common problem. Which gets worse as you depress the clutch pedal. This factory built race car was doing a clutch cable every 50 miles. Typical MK quality engineering .

Cheers Matt


[img]http:// Description
Description [/img]


Funny,on my MK the clutch cable tube passes through the bottom chassis rail, lines up perfectly, but the chassis is 14 years old.
That's progress for ya!

whitestu - 13/6/13 at 02:15 PM

The one in the pic has just been put together wrong. Not great if it was built by MK.

Mine follows the same route but the inner cable doesn't touch the tube and has no signs of wear after 7 years.

Stu

britishtrident - 13/6/13 at 04:11 PM

Sounds like to me like the pedal needs a stop to prevent the cable getting pulled hard against its' limit at the clutch end.

-matt - 13/6/13 at 11:44 PM

Thanks guys, yes I do have a clutch stop, so there is only about an inch of pedal movement.

It's setup as per matts pic, not sure how could have the outer through the hole aswell as surely it would need to press against something?

I think the problem with the second break was the engine heat must have softened the solder and the cable pulled straight through the solder.

A new cable arrived today so will try and do something a bit stronger with this one.

Custardpants - 14/6/13 at 08:43 AM

At least these are little external issues - my Indy R had an embarrassing amount of similar issues straight out of the factory, from misaligned chassis, uncalibrated fuel guage, to a poorly setup pedal-box, two years later I was still substituting parts which should have been part of the original specification. Because of this i really wish id just built it myself properly rather than lazily ordering a factory built car. It is getting there now though, and is a so much better car to drive than the one that left the factory, and this is what makes the work worthwhile.