AndyW
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 09:52 PM |
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Help, I can't flare brake pipes...VERY pic heavy
Ok, here goes. I posted a while back that I was having trouble with flaring brake pipes and someone suggested I post some pics of how Im doing it and
to see if anyone can help. Im really fed up now as Ive been in the garage tonight and wasted a load more pipe. This time I took some pics with a
mobile to post up and see if anyone can help.
1st pic is brake pipe in clamp, done up real tight.
2nd Pic shows how much pipe sticks out compared to flaring cap thing!
3rd pic is clamp ready to screw down.
4th pic, is clamp screwed all the way down.
5th pic, clamp un screwed, removed and showing flared end
6th pic is pipe removed from clamp showing a rather poor, wonky crap flare
another poor attempt
and another.....
and more.....
and finally one to laugh at......
last one for now
This is what I cut the pipe with
And a small collection of wasted pipe for the bin :-(
This one was ok, but one out of maybe 50? Cant risk it on a long run of pipe
So, the million dollar question, what am I doing wrong? I was at the GBS factory last week and they use an identical tool and they make perfect
flares. Is it really a case of practice makes perfect? What I need to do is measure out each of the pipes and then some one fairly local can
"teach" me on the remainder of my pipe? Its driving me mad.....sorry for the long post but you know how it goes, have to vent anger some
where as SWMBO wouldn't understand!!
Thanks
Andy
[Edited on 19/1/11 by AndyW]
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austin man
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 09:58 PM |
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its as much about getting the right amount of pipe through to little or too much will not give the best results. Never used that too type so cant say
how much should protrude
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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handyandy
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:04 PM |
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I,d say that judging from pics 7 , 8 & 9 that you have too much pipe for the flare tool bit(die) to compress/shape,
I,d suggest that you reduce the amount of pipe as in pics 1 & 2 is less than the die tool, say about half to 3/4 the depth of the die tool.
I might be wrong but the pipes you have flared where,s its ended up "wonky" is cos there,s too much pipe being flared.
Hope you get it sorted. 
cheers
andy
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:07 PM |
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Its in the prep of the end of the cut pipe from what i remember.
I had the same problem, and eventually figured out that i needed to rotate the ringing tool about 20-30 times (increasing pressure each time) to let
the blade cut rather than chop.
I seem to remember that different gauge pipe swaged differently too.
Not much help, and i can see the anger in the cut ends!!
Good luck.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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hillbillyracer
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:10 PM |
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That first flare you show is'nt that bad, not symmectrical, but I'd think it'd seal ok, difficult to tell without photos from other
angles.
The others look a bit like there's been a touch too much pipe protruding from the clamp making it buckle & that the die may not be quite as
good as it should be so it doesnt set it off as it should. But I've not used this type of former & not seen you use it so I'm not that
sure.
Is there any chance there's been a mix-up between the dies for single & double flares?
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Davegtst
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:16 PM |
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I found some copper pipe flared better than others. New stuff seemed much easier to work with and i used the exact same tool.
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:18 PM |
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I also think that the first photo showing finished pipe would seal perfectly.
I also think that you can't spend enough time on the prep.
Did you clean the pipe inside and out with rough scotch pads before flaring? I always make sure the inside is perfect as that often leads to a
deformity.
Also, after flared, I lightly sand the bulbuous end with some 1200 grit to make sure of a good seal...
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watsonpj
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:18 PM |
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I've got a similar tool but it also had a cutter with mine which had a deburring tool on it. I always deburred inside and out before making
flares and had no issues. The amount of pipe protruding should be set as you show, but my version has a small step I believe I would go and look but
everything piled up at the mo as I have the builders in.hopefully someone will come along who can get their hands on their tool 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:18 PM |
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some of those might just seal but thats tool makes old fashioned SAE flare for an Escort II or Sierra based Locost you should use a tool that
mates DIN (metric) flares.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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flibble
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:23 PM |
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It always seems to help my flares if i dab a bit of brake fluid onto the pipe end to lube it up a bit before winding the tool in, worth a shot
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AndyW
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
some of those might just seal but thats tool makes old fashioned SAE flare for an Escort II or Sierra based Locost you should use a tool that
mates DIN (metric) flares.
Im useing sierra master cyl and brakes...... does that make a difference then?
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:27 PM |
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Are you sure you are using the tool in the correct order?
its been a few years since i did mine, same tool.
and i think i remember that you use the dye first and then the cone afterwards, not just the dye on its own
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steve m
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:29 PM |
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I am also unfamilier with that style of flareing tool
Mine has the odd failure but 85-95% are succsesfull
It is all about preperation,
clean pipe
no bur's inside or out
the right amount of pipe showing out of the fomer (i would say you have way to much showing)
My flring tool also came with some red grease, but ive not alsways used it
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
the right amount of pipe showing out of the fomer (i would say you have way to much showing)
You have the correct amount showing for that tool
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flibble
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:33 PM |
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quote:
i think i remember that you use the dye first and then the cone afterwards, not just the dye on its own
I coukd also be wrong nut isn't that for the female (double flare)?
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RichardK
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:33 PM |
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I've got one of those and yes it does need a fair bit of practice but this is what works best for me, here goes...
PUT THE FITTING ON THE PIPE!
Clamp the pipe into the pipe clamp so its flush with the bottom of the V and nip it up, release and turn the pipe 90 degrees and again nip it up, this
ensures that the pipe is now straight.
Loosen off the clamp and push it up so that there is the the correct amount above, I've used the depth of the die like you but have also used
another off cut of pipe too as the depth with varying success,think this is all about the thickness or quality of the copper more than anything
else.
I then have a little Phillips jewellers screwdriver that i slowly turn down the pipe which allows the die to be inserted without binding and being too
tight and also making it too tight to get off.
Now use the die for the single flare and should be good, now take off the clamp and put a tiny bit of coppaslip on the back of the flare to help the
fitting slip around it while tightening hand tight, nip up a further half turn.
If you needed a double flare don't take it out of the clamp just dont use the die and just go down a little, it doesn't need to bottom out
or anything! Again do the coppaslip on the back and hand tight with a further half turn.
Always use a vice to hold the clamp as it just about impossible to do a decent flare holding it by hand, that's what the sticky out bit at the
end of the clamp is for.
Don't worry if you get some leaks just turn them about an 8th of a turn until it stops, more often than not the problem is either going down to
hard with the double flare or tightening them too much at install. Try and keep all pieces parrallel too with even gaps around the neck if that sort
of makes sense!
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Rich
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flibble
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:37 PM |
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quote:
PUT THE FITTING ON THE PIPE
Lol, yes, thers nothing quite ike doing a pefect flare then seeing the fitting still sat on the workbench.... :'(
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nick205
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flibble
It always seems to help my flares if i dab a bit of brake fluid onto the pipe end to lube it up a bit before winding the tool in, worth a shot
Ditto, a dip in some brake fluid definitely aids the flaring process.
As also mentioned the squarer and cleaner the pipe is the better the results.
I have the same tool and have had good results from it.
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myke pocock
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:48 PM |
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Just to add my two pennyworth. I have the same tool and the first pic looks OK to me. I cut mone with a pipe cutter first then used a needle file to
cvlean out the inside of the pipe before flaring. Certainly had very few failures and you have to use the conical end of the tool to finish off one of
the pipe ends. Cannot remember if it was male or female end. Interestingly I bought my kit from Machine Mart a few years ago and it didnt have
instructions. Wrote to them and they said that instructions arent part of the kit. How the f*ck are you supposed to use it then. Luckily had borrowed
a similar kit WITH INSTRUCTIONS from a mate.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:49 PM |
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Ive tried several flaring kits, including one similar to yours and failed miserably with most.
My dad has an old kit which is based on the clamp styles ones you see for about £100 on ebay, however knowing my dad I know he would not have paid
that much! SO must have been a cheaper version. But it works fine.
However I cant find anything similar on the internet. 
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paulf
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:51 PM |
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I have one of these tools and found it to work best with slightly less than the thickness of the die sticking out, i use a drill bit to de burr the
inside of the tube and find a little brake grease on the die helps.
Paul
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Peteff
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 10:57 PM |
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I've done quite a few along with my Locost and a friend's car and not had any fails using Kunifer, steel and copper pipe. Try a bit of
brake grease on the die as you fit it and tighten the end nut nearest the hole with the pipe in first. My pipe cutter has a reamer on the back for
cleaning the cut up and I use that quite energetically so the die is an easy fit.
[Edited on 19/1/11 by Peteff]
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 11:20 PM |
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click me and about 1:25 in
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ashg
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 11:25 PM |
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that first one you did looks ok. screw it down into a brake caliper then take it back out again and it should look like it is supposed to.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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contaminated
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 11:55 PM |
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I could be a div here, but I've currently got the ones I did recently exposed so I went into the garage to have a look. You've used the
female (dished) side of the tool to make that fitting. The fitting itself looks good to me, but I'm sure for that type of brake union the other
side of the tool should be used so that you have a flat side butting up to it. That's certanly how I did mine - with 100% success I might add. I
may just be mis-interpreting the photo mind.
Other than that the first couple of photos don't look like the inside of the pipe was de-burred before forming.
Hope you get it sorted.
Dan
Tiger Super Six Independent
www.southernkitcars.com
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