John Bonnett
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| posted on 16/11/20 at 04:34 PM |
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Determination seems to have one the day and after a couple of disappointing days we are moving forward with the formers, the fabrication part of the
job going well. Fortunately I'm not having to cost my time and can take as long over the job as I need to get it right. There is a lot of
clamping and welding and many areas when it can all get out of shape so I've been working slowly (as usual you are probably saying) and taking
my time to avoid generating more scrap. A friend of mine said there is no such thing as scrap just material waiting for a smaller job to come
along.
Any, one is finished and the second on its way with two more to follow.
The 20mm holes are there to allow the brake and fuel lines and the battery cable to pass through.
[Edited on 16/11/20 by John Bonnett]
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jps
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| posted on 16/11/20 at 04:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by John BonnettI've been working slowly (as usual you are probably saying) and taking my time
It is rather galling John....
....that your slow is a hell of a lot faster than most peoples flat out, and frankly light speed compared to the progress I can manage!
The photos you use to illustrate what you've been doing are excellent, it's fascinating to see this progress and a really interesting
insight into what you're doing.
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 16/11/20 at 05:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jps
quote:
Originally posted by John BonnettI've been working slowly (as usual you are probably saying) and taking my time
It is rather galling John....
....that your slow is a hell of a lot faster than most peoples flat out, and frankly light speed compared to the progress I can manage!
The photos you use to illustrate what you've been doing are excellent, it's fascinating to see this progress and a really interesting
insight into what you're doing.
That's really kind of you, thank you and thank you too for your interest in the project. I'm actually very lucky in being able to play
every day in the workshop and spend as many hours as I want to unlike many folk on here who have family commitments and a job to contend with before
they can start thinking about spending time on the hobby. These are the people I take my hat of to being able to summon the energy to get out in the
garage in the evening after a day's work or getting the children to bed. I certainly wouldn't have the energy to do that.
I love what I'm doing and I'm trying to include as much detail as possible in the photos so that the techniques I'm using might
help anyone embarking on the same road.
[Edited on 16/11/20 by John Bonnett]
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 16/11/20 at 06:05 PM |
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Interesting point on scrap and building a one-off, it never going to be as effective as building a well estabilshed product.
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 17/11/20 at 06:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
The rear screen part really depends on if your going to make an opening tailgate, or just a small boot opening, that would fall under the rear bottom
of the screen
The boot option would be my choice, as it could incorporate a much stiffer body also. possibly the fiesta rear screen could be used
steve
Steve, I keep thinking about what you said and it really is a very good point, so much so that I have decided to ditch the tailgate idea and just have
an opening boot. I am concerned about body stiffness and a simple boot lid will allow more bracing, will be simpler to make and being a whole lot
lighter than a tailgate, the fixings can be lighter too. I shall certainly do my best to use the Fiesta rear screen.
Another decent day which has seen three out of the four formers fabricated. Hopefully by close of play tomorrow I'll have some more photos to
put up.
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starterman
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| posted on 17/11/20 at 07:33 PM |
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Roll on the end of lockdown when I can finally get to see things in the flesh, so to speak.
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 17/11/20 at 07:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by starterman
Roll on the end of lockdown when I can finally get to see things in the flesh, so to speak.
Bring it on 
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steve m
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| posted on 17/11/20 at 10:27 PM |
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Steve, I keep thinking about what you said and it really is a very good point, so much so that I have decided to ditch the tailgate idea and just have
an opening boot. I am concerned about body stiffness and a simple boot lid will allow more bracing, will be simpler to make and being a whole lot
lighter than a tailgate, the fixings can be lighter too. I shall certainly do my best to use the Fiesta rear screen.
Another decent day which has seen three out of the four formers fabricated. Hopefully by close of play tomorrow I'll have some more photos to
put up.
John, your the one doing al the hard work, and if one of my suggestions work , then that is cool, but its your car, and you do what ever you want
!!
i will not question your ability nor desire, as it far out ways mine !! ]
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 18/11/20 at 07:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Steve, I keep thinking about what you said and it really is a very good point, so much so that I have decided to ditch the tailgate idea and just have
an opening boot. I am concerned about body stiffness and a simple boot lid will allow more bracing, will be simpler to make and being a whole lot
lighter than a tailgate, the fixings can be lighter too. I shall certainly do my best to use the Fiesta rear screen.
Another decent day which has seen three out of the four formers fabricated. Hopefully by close of play tomorrow I'll have some more photos to
put up.
John, your the one doing al the hard work, and if one of my suggestions work , then that is cool, but its your car, and you do what ever you want
!!
i will not question your ability nor desire, as it far out ways mine !! ]
Steve it is quite humbling that you and many others are taking an interest in what I'm trying to achieve and making very helpful and well
thought out comments which I always appreciate. I only have ideas all in my head and nothing drawn up of how it is going to be but they may not be the
best solutions so it is always good to receive fresh input. When you are as close to the job as I am, sometimes it's difficult to see the wood
for the trees and it is easy to miss the obvious. The tailgate option was my favourite because of ease of access but I had overlooked the structural
work needed to add stiffness to the shell and not given any thought to the befits of a straightforward boot lid and the advantages that offers so
I'm grateful to you for your suggestion.
I've said this many times before that no matter what the subject or discipline there are experts and specialists here on this forum always ready
to offer advice and guidance which is what makes it so special. I think it was David Jenkins who some years ago said that he regards the forum as
meeting friends in a pub and having a chat and that's spot on; something that Facebook will never achieve. I hope we never lose the site.
[Edited on 18/11/20 by John Bonnett]
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 18/11/20 at 04:20 PM |
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After three days I've finally completed the formers that will span the propshaft and form part of the body structure. The aluminium transmission
tunnel will fit over the top of them and be secured to them using M6 rivnuts. I always try to design in accessibility so it will be useful if it can
be removed when necessary. The handbrake complicates things but I hope I've found a way round that.
I'll attach a photo of a useful little tool that I made some time back to bend 6mm steel and I used it to form a bend on the sheet. Not my idea
but copied from Wray Shellin.
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 20/11/20 at 05:37 PM |
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Work continued on the transmission tunnel and the frame onto which the floor will be fixed. As always distortion during welding was the enemy but the
assembly has ended up pretty true and sits well on the chassis. My concern has always been that once the floor frame has been welded into the car (for
want of a better word) and the body removed to fit the floor which is in effect sandwiched between chassis and floor frame, the body frame could
lozenge slightly and once the floor has been riveted and bonded in place it probably wouldn't go back on its mounts. So I came up with a cunning
plan. I've welded in tubes parallel to the two by one sill foundations leaving a 12mm gap. This will allow the assembly to be fitted with the
floor first before welding into the car without risk of melting the aluminium. I may not even need to fill the gap depending on how the sill is
constructed.
[Edited on 20/11/20 by John Bonnett]
[Edited on 20/11/20 by John Bonnett]
[Edited on 20/11/20 by John Bonnett]
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 22/11/20 at 04:29 PM |
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I'm still working on the floor frame and battling distortion every step of the way but we're getting there. There are two sides to
building from scratch as against putting together a kit. The downside is that every little fixture, bracket and fitting has to be made, all of which
devours time but the upside is that depending on the care taken every part fits perfectly and needs no fettling. Today I've added a rear section
to the frame and made some additional mounting points. I have also welded in one inch by one inch angle that the aluminium tunnel will be fixed to. I
mounted the seat just to satisfy myself that everything still fitted.
[Edited on 22/11/20 by John Bonnett]
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 23/11/20 at 09:38 AM |
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Progress on a daily basis is slow and not a lot to show with perhaps just the addition of a few brackets or tubes so unless anyone has any objections
I'll post updates from now on, on a weekly rather than a daily basis on a Sunday evening.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 23/11/20 at 12:39 PM |
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Yeah that's cool. What I find really helpful is showing how these parts are made. Had to laugh at the transmission tunnel. It came out so well
with such a simple jig, amazing.
[Edited on 23/11/20 by Mr Whippy]
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 23/11/20 at 02:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Yeah that's cool. What I find really helpful is showing how these parts are made. Had to laugh at the transmission tunnel. It came out so well
with such a simple jig, amazing.
[Edited on 23/11/20 by Mr Whippy]
The next bit is going to be rather more challenging. I need to tip a flange on one end to fix it to the firewall. Fortunately the tunnel is overlong
so if it does all go horribly wrong I won't have lost the panel.
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 23/11/20 at 03:29 PM |
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Always looking out for your updates, doesn't matter if they are regulary or not.
Are the seat belts going on this frame as well?
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 23/11/20 at 06:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ettore bugatti
Always looking out for your updates, doesn't matter if they are regularly or not.
Are the seat belts going on this frame as well?
Thank you EB. Yes They are in you should be able to see them in one of the photos. 7/16" UNF threaded inserts welded into the triangular piece
that itself is welded up against the rear former. It's well braced and as strong as I can possibly make it.
While we're talking I will tell you what I've been doing today which has been largely experimental. Well, playing really. I need to
interface the aluminium transmission tunnel to the rear firewall which, because of the profile, is not straightforward. Why do I make things so
difficult for myself? I decided to attempt to tip a flange and then weld on more material sufficient to allow space for the fixings which will
probably be M5 button heads.
I seriously doubted whether the right angle bend would be sufficiently compliant to turn through 90 degrees but I decided to try it anyway. The
aluminium needed to be annealed that was very clear but at the moment I don't have any oxygen and acetylene which is what I normally use to
anneal aluminium. First put down a layer of black from the acetylene and then heat the aluminium until the black has disappeared. But I picked up on a
recent Ron Covell video that ink from a marker pen will burn off at the annealing temperature of aluminium so using my Mapp gas torch I gave it a try
and blow me, it works! I annealed just the area that needed to be worked. Thank you Ron. I I then cut two pieces of plywood to the matching profile so
that the aluminium could be sandwiched and clamped up tightly. I then began to tap the flange over. It was a struggle but with several intermediate
annealings it played ball much to my amazement. An awful lot of material needed to be lost in the right angles but I was able to trap the tucks and
shrink them together with a hammer. It is incredible and I would not have believed it had I not just done it for myself. So a very good start. To be
continued.
[Edited on 23/11/20 by John Bonnett]
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 29/11/20 at 04:49 PM |
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I see that it is nearly a week since the last update and although I've put the hours in there's not a huge amount to show for it but
having said that, I'm happy with where we are.
So where were we? About to attach more material to the flange I'd tipped on the rear end of the transmission tunnel. Whilst I love stainless
steel TIG welding and always look forward to it, aluminium is a different matter and I start off being tense which is a disadvantage straight away
because if you are not comfortable and relaxed you cannot produce decent welds. I'm talking TIG here. Gas welding aluminium is a different
matter and something I don't have too much trouble with once I've got into the swing of it. In view of the cost of the gas I am
considering not using oxy/acetylene this time and TIG welding the whole thing and if I do that I would hope that by the end I would end up more
relaxed about it and very much more proficient. But, back to the job. The welding actually went okay, not pretty but good penetration and the flange
won't drop off.
The next job was to fold the passenger side A post continuation of the Fiesta section which wasn't a job I was looking forward to knowing that
(for me) the second one never goes as well as the first and unfortunately this was no different. I hadn't realized quite how much I'd
fluked the first one which I knocked off in a couple of hours. This one took two days with the whole of the first day's effort consigned to the
bin as I left the workshop for the night. It is a complex shape and each fold has to start in exactly the right place otherwise the rest of it is
wrong. But I got there in the end and once welded in place is equally as good as its partner on the other side.
I made some brackets to weld to the floor frame and these will be for supplementary fixings and secured by M6 rivnuts rather than the M8 threaded and
welded inserts for the main ones. The rivnuts have now been fitted and the frame removed for a coat of paint.
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 6/12/20 at 04:47 PM |
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It's been a good week in the workshop with some encouraging progress. Now this may seem odd to you given how early I am into the project that
the next thing I decided to undertake was inserting a little box into the transmission tunnel just forward of the handbrake. A sort of cubby hole for
sweets or car park change etc. Anyway for whatever reason I decided to do it and it actually came out nicely. Following that it was time to attack the
floor. I'm using 1.2mm 18 gauge aluminium and bonding and riveting it to the frame that is currently detachable from the rest of the body frame.
It is only a partial floor to allow space for welding without damaging the aluminium or melting the adhesive. I've used 4mm countersunk rivets
set with an air tool which has proved invaluable. In order to locate the seat fixings I sharpened the ends of lengths of M8 studding and threaded them
into the holes. The floor assembly was put in place and the studs located by using a rare earth magnet. Tapping with a soft faced mallet gave nice
centre pots. It was then easy to drill through and good to know that the holes were in the right places.
The final photos show where we are currently.
[Edited on 6/12/20 by John Bonnett]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 6/12/20 at 11:13 PM |
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what, no cupholder??
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 7/12/20 at 06:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
what, no cupholder??
Ha ha! Definitely no cup holders.
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HowardB
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| posted on 7/12/20 at 09:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by John Bonnett
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
what, no cupholder??
Ha ha! Definitely no cup holders.
will it have some innovative features?
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again  and goes zoom)
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 7/12/20 at 12:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by HowardB
quote:
Originally posted by John Bonnett
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
what, no cupholder??
Ha ha! Definitely no cup holders.
will it have some innovative features?
I'm not sure about innovative but I'm hoping to include modern day comforts like heated screens, aircon apple play etc and produce a car
that will be comfortable for serious journeys rather than something like the G15 which was enormous fun hooning for half an hour followed by a lie
down in a darkened room to clear the zinging ears.
I have in my head a clear idea of what I want to achieve but I haven't lost sight of the fact that this is an enormous project with a lot of it
being new territory for me. It's certainly the most ambitious undertaking that I have ever embarked upon and this is probably not the best stage
of my life to start on the journey. But having said all that, I'm loving every minute of it by viewing each task as an end in itself and trying
to avoid looking at the bigger picture which would be too daunting and discouraging.
So far it has been a fascinating journey and the one thing I have learned is that it is necessary to have a starting point A on which to build.
Further down the line it might become apparent that A is wrong and need changing but you have to have something that can either be retained or
altered. Such is the case with the main body frame. At present I'm thinking about removing all the tubes from the windscreen rearwards and the B
posts. The new B posts will be 50mm square box section rather than round tube, terminating at waist height and the pillar will be in 20mm square box
section angled backwards. The new horizontals from the windscreen back will be curved and in 20mm diameter round tube. At the moment these are just
ideas but seem like the way forward.
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HowardB
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| posted on 7/12/20 at 01:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by John Bonnett
quote:
Originally posted by HowardB
quote:
Originally posted by John Bonnett
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
what, no cupholder??
Ha ha! Definitely no cup holders.
will it have some innovative features?
I'm not sure about innovative but I'm hoping to include modern day comforts like heated screens, aircon apple play etc and produce a car
that will be comfortable for serious journeys rather than something like the G15 which was enormous fun hooning for half an hour followed by a lie
down in a darkened room to clear the zinging ears.
I have in my head a clear idea of what I want to achieve but I haven't lost sight of the fact that this is an enormous project with a lot of it
being new territory for me. It's certainly the most ambitious undertaking that I have ever embarked upon and this is probably not the best stage
of my life to start on the journey. But having said all that, I'm loving every minute of it by viewing each task as an end in itself and trying
to avoid looking at the bigger picture which would be too daunting and discouraging.
So far it has been a fascinating journey and the one thing I have learned is that it is necessary to have a starting point A on which to build.
Further down the line it might become apparent that A is wrong and need changing but you have to have something that can either be retained or
altered. Such is the case with the main body frame. At present I'm thinking about removing all the tubes from the windscreen rearwards and the B
posts. The new B posts will be 50mm square box section rather than round tube, terminating at waist height and the pillar will be in 20mm square box
section angled backwards. The new horizontals from the windscreen back will be curved and in 20mm diameter round tube. At the moment these are just
ideas but seem like the way forward.
That is a great philospophy and aspirational. I agree it reminds me of the joke about getting to London - where the answer is - it is that way, but I
wouldn't be starting from here. We all have to start somewhere and your journey will have more twists and turns and better views of the sunlit
upland than most - including mine. More power to your elbow and your english wheel
I look forward to each and every lesson that you share with us
thank you
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 7/12/20 at 01:51 PM |
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That is a great philospophy and aspirational. I agree it reminds me of the joke about getting to London - where the answer is - it is that way, but I
wouldn't be starting from here. We all have to start somewhere and your journey will have more twists and turns and better views of the sunlit
upland than most - including mine. More power to your elbow and your english wheel
I look forward to each and every lesson that you share with us
thank you
Howard thank you. It is the support and encouragement from you and everyone who contributes to this thread that keep me motivated so please do keep
the replies and comments coming.
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