JC
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 03:06 PM |
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1st car for 17yo - ABS?
The day is rapidly approaching when the Lincolnshire roads wil be terrorised by JC Jr! He doesn't want a 'normal' first car like
everyone else (ka, corsa etc!) but wants something a bit different. His first thought was triumph spitfire, but now he fancies a mk1 fiesta!!!
My opinion is that I think ABS is one of the best recent advances on cars from the safety point of view, and feel that any car he has should at least
this!!! Am I being too blinkered in this or do you agree with me?
If so, suggestions for a cheap to insure car with ABS that's a bit 'different'?
Thanks
JC
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computid
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 03:21 PM |
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I imagine the insurance for a (presumably 17 year old?) will be very high on a MK1 Fiesta due to the amount of crashes youngsters will have had in
them in the past.
Aside from that, my first car didn't have ABS, I drove it somewhat spiritedly in all conditions and hey, I'm still here.
ABS is a nice to have but I don't consider it to be necessary at all. This probably ties in with my condemnation of the current standard of the
UK driving test and the quality of drivers it produces (People who know muscle memory of when to change gear and steer, but have no idea how to
actually handle their car - not saying this is true of everybody but the vast majority of people I encounter have absolutely no idea that a clutch is
anything apart from the pedal on the left!).
IMO it would be worth your while sending your son on a Skid Pan Training day if you're concerned about it.
[Edited on 5/1/16 by computid]
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Sam_68
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 03:23 PM |
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I'd say that DSC is probably even more important than ABS for a new driver... you're more likely to stuff yourself into a lamp post by
panicking and lifting-off on a mis-judged bend than braking hard in a straight line?
...But most of us will have cut our teeth on non-ABS cars, and we're still here to tell the tale? I went out and bought a mid-engined sports car
as soon as I passed my test (so quickly learned the bit about not lifting off mid-bend!  ), and was driving a Westfield within a year. 
Damned if I can think of anything that's new enough to have DSC and is cheap to insure and would classify as interesting,
though.
Smart Roadster, maybe (but that's semi-automatic)?
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loggyboy
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 03:32 PM |
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IMO ABS is a god send to inexperienced or 'non driver' drivers.
However I have it purposefully disconnected (well disabled) on my tintop as it interferes, if it just worked under braking I would be happy to have it
for road use. But if it let goes round bend, I want to control it, not have me control it on instinct then have the abs kick in milli seconds later
doubling the correction!
Ignoring the ABS issue, simple crash test etc is enough to put me off placing my kids (when they get there) in older cars.
Mistral Motorsport
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 03:42 PM |
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Abs and a decent n/cap rating a must as far as I'm concerned if it was my kids .
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jeffw
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 03:49 PM |
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Just bought my 17 year old a Mini One.
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nick205
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 04:01 PM |
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My first car was a mk1 Fiesta 1300S, great car it was too.
ABS may have existed on top end motors then, but it just didn't register on my radar then and I'm still here (car is long gone BTW).
IMHO ABS and DSC are all well and good and probably save lives more than people realise. For a first car nowadays I'd be focused on keeping
costs (insurance as low as possible). If it has ABS great, if not hey ho he'll be a better driver in time.
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computid
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 04:01 PM |
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I think when I was 17 my car ownership went as follows (some of these were simultaneously and I had motorbikes before hand, passed my bike test about
10 days after my 17th birthday iirc, car test followed a few months later):
Locost 7 - 1.6 RS Turbo powered
1978 MG B GT
Fiat Cinqucento
Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDDI
Minari Road Sport Mk2
Toyota Aygo
When I turned 18 I went a bit more stupid, but thats a different story
First cars are supposed to be crappy, and they're supposed to be crashed. I didn't crash any of mine, but that was possibly down to having
road experience from Mopeds/Motorcycles and having driving experience from off road driving. A £500 2002 renault clio will get most 17 year olds
through their first year of driving in relative safety and reliability without having to worry if things do go wrong.
On the flip side, all I wanted when I was that age was something different and interesting hence the menagerie above. Yes ok the Mondeo may not seem
interesting but no other 17 year olds (or even under 22's) that I knew at the time had a 2.0L 
The Aygo was the only sensible choice out of the lot, and that only got purchased once I actually had to drive to get to work and got tired of taking
the GSXR. It didn't last too long and was soon replaced by a rather much larger BMW and some other toys 
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 04:21 PM |
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Personally I think everyone should have to learn to drive in a crap slow car,with no aids. That way the inevitable first few frights lockups and
lamposts remind you that your not invincible so when you get a decent car with abs etc you don't take it for granted.
Also you learn to read the road much better,anticipating spots where you can wind it up to overtake,rather than just pull out and put your foot
down,and learn to carry speed much smoother,rather than go,brake go brake etc. and you won't stop then look at every roundabout like so many do
today, because you have started looking if you can fly through it way before getting there rather than slow down and have to build up speed again.
Hillman Imp would be my first choice.I'd love to be hooning about in it again!
Chris
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nick205
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 04:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StrikerChris
Personally I think everyone should have to learn to drive in a crap slow car,with no aids. That way the inevitable first few frights lockups and
lamposts remind you that your not invincible so when you get a decent car with abs etc you don't take it for granted.
Also you learn to read the road much better,anticipating spots where you can wind it up to overtake,rather than just pull out and put your foot
down,and learn to carry speed much smoother,rather than go,brake go brake etc. and you won't stop then look at every roundabout like so many do
today, because you have started looking if you can fly through it way before getting there rather than slow down and have to build up speed again.
Hillman Imp would be my first choice.I'd love to be hooning about in it again!
Chris
I'd agree with reading the road ahead better although I have noticed many roundabouts these days are designed with hedges on the approach so you
have to slow down and look more anyway.
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nick205
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 04:47 PM |
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Thinking back, my 2nd car was a 1.1L mk3 Escort - a nail of a car from the off, but still freedom and fun to have.
Going from that to a 1.6 GTI 205 taught me a few facts about driving like look where you're going and don't drive into other
people's cars
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hizzi
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 05:23 PM |
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regardless of what you buy check insurance first , so cars are just a no go. having seen so many fatal accidents with youngsters i would buy whatever
has the most airbags for my kids, did for my daughter and will for my son when the time comes. my neighbours son recently barrel rolled a corsa and
walked away due to the safety systems.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 06:09 PM |
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Ditto getting quotes.
About to get a pug 107 for the missus to use as a puddlejumper, and insure the kids on it too. That will be an additional £250 for the remainder of
the insurance (another 9 months) on top of the £350 annual fee we are paying for a classic 1.0 mini.
We asked about a seat citigo That would be an extra £850 a year.... and we have no idea why.
But premiums seem to be extremely sensitive to car and even model (with the same engine)
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morcus
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 06:26 PM |
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you dodged a bullet, I can honestly say the Citigo is the absolute worst car I've ever driven (And that's comparing a brand new car to
some really ropey sheds) Drove 1000 miles in it on business dreaming of the clapped out Vectra I had at home.
Check the insurance first, I know its been said already but you might find you are much better off getting a newer car.
Is your son paying or are you? If he's paying its his choice (Though obviously you should guide him) but if its your money you should choose and
in your position I would deliberately make sure it was something uncool. I'd really recommend a panda, I had one as my second car for 3 years
and that had some sort of stability control and was a very versatile car.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 07:59 PM |
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I bought my first car with ABS/ESP this year, 7 years after passing my test! My first 'quick' car was an AX GT (at 17), it would warn you
of impending doom a long time before it actually tried to kill you. Modern cars will only really let you know that you've been an idiot once
you're in the wall.
[Edited on 5-1-16 by phelpsa]
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sdh2903
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 08:06 PM |
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My one and only car accident came when I was 17 and thought I was the dogs danglies. I ended up in a field off the cat and fiddle. If I'd had
ABS it wouldn't have happened. Nuff said. Not saying I wasn't a knob but it would have saved my blushes. However it did teach me pressing
the middle pedal harder and harder isn't always the answer.
I wouldnt put my kids in a non dsc/abs car now until they had been driving for a couple of years and gained some experience. There's too many
idiots out there.
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Adamirish
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| posted on 5/1/16 at 09:17 PM |
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I can't actually remember the last time I actually made use of abs! I have done a few emergency stops lately too.
I did lock up the Kit a couple of months ago after being a knob. If I had piled it, i would only have myself to blame! weird brakes didn't
help that at all though.(nothing, nothing, still nothing, peel face off steering wheel)
MK Indy 1700 Xflow
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mcerd1
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| posted on 6/1/16 at 10:49 AM |
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Insurance cost will dictate the car he can afford these days - I thought mine was bad at ~£500/year....
My first car was a 79 mk1 fiesta 1.1L - that was 16 years ago...
Mine had done so few miles it was almost as new (24k) it even still had its original tyres - scary!
No ABS, no 5th gear, no passenger side wing mirror, no locking fuel cap, no head rests, no rear seat belts, no fog light, no radio or console to put
one in, no lighter socket, a foot pump for the front washers (but weirdly electric wash/ wipe for the back) - but very simple to work on 
But most of that list can be sorted with parts from higher spec models or from mk2's
(the rear seatbelt mounts are all in place, you just need the belts and trim panels (only suits non-inertia reel belts without mods, but better than
nothing)
That car taught me alot about understeer and locking up !
A mildly damp roundabout at 15mph might as well have been an ice rink...
Not helped by the lack of choice of decent rubber for 145 R12's (that's standard profile, aka 82.5% )
In the end it was just becoming a little hard to live with day to day and parts were getting harder to come by - and right at the end they stopped
selling LRP petrol too...
Don't get me wrong - I loved the car and was sorry to see it go (even with its gold paint, chrome bumpers and lovely brown and black interior -
the sort of combination that could only come from the late 70's)
The 106 I replaced it with was better in ever way - but mainly the handling!
but I did manage to find myself a very early one with 4 gears, a carb and no electronic aids at all - this is still my favourite tin-top ever
(if I had time and space I'd buy a S1 106 rallye tomorrow)
[Edited on 6/1/2016 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 6/1/2016 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 6/1/2016 by mcerd1]
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Andy D
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| posted on 6/1/16 at 11:05 AM |
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I've got a pal going through this with his sons, as far as I know the cheapest insurance options were the ones with a tracker box fitted. It
also prevents any "youthful exuberance" getting the better of said youths. :-)
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loggyboy
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| posted on 6/1/16 at 12:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
My first car was a 79 mk1 fiesta 1.1L - that was 16 years ago...
Mine had done so few miles it was almost as new (24k) it even still had its original tyres - scary!
No ABS, no 5th gear, no passenger side wing mirror, no locking fuel cap, no head rests, no rear seat belts, no fog light, no radio or console to put
one in, no lighter socket, a foot pump for the front washers (but weirdly electric wash/ wipe for the back) - but very simple to work on
But most of that list can be sorted with parts from higher spec models or from mk2's
(the rear seatbelt mounts are all in place, you just need the belts and trim panels (only suits non-inertia reel belts without mods, but better than
nothing)
This takes me back My first (first two cars in fact) were Mk1 fiestas, 20 years ago this year. However mine had been in family for years and had
lots of 'nice' extras, mk2 ghia seats, add on centre consol with twin DIN openings (tape and graphic equaliser!).
One of my faves was the addition of electric washer squirters, but my dad had also retained the foot pump, so you could double boost the pressure and
squirt pedestrians - we were so naughty!
Mistral Motorsport
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 6/1/16 at 12:51 PM |
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Old landrover, very cheap insurance and doesn't go fast, usually comes of the winner in a crash anyway.
My girls when they old enough (indoctrinated by their dads one ) will be using these, god forbid though they'll probably be purple or pink
My second crash was in an immaculate mk1 fiesta which another fiesta crashed into at traffic lights at about 25mph (was still in second gear) and just
as well it was nothing bigger as the whole car was twisted to the point the tailgate didn't shut.
First crash was in the same car as it skidded in the rain, flew through a fence and ended up hinging in a gorse bush above a railway line! no ABS you
see and skinny tyres...
Such a super weak car against anything modern it would just fold up to nothing, a death trap for a crash prone 17 year old, they would be safer on a
motorbike with dynamite strapped to their chest.
In those days I could fill it up with just £11 of petrol!!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 6/1/16 at 12:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Such a super weak car against anything modern it would just fold up to nothing, a death trap for a crash prone 17 year old, they would be safer on a
motorbike with dynamite strapped to their chest.
'I' survived ok! - despite grinding a crash barrier (skateboard style), T boning a Nova who cut me up, and ploughing thru a wooded verge
arrowheading the front of the car.
The car(s) of course didn't and both my mk1s were written off by my knob end driving. Beauty was i never claimed for any of my fault accidents
(always hit inanimate objects) as the cars were borderline worthless, so despite writing off my first 4 cars in 5 years, I had 5 years no claims
bonus.
Mistral Motorsport
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morcus
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| posted on 6/1/16 at 04:11 PM |
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The post above might be a reason not to get tracker insurance as they'd have known about all your naughty crashes.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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RoyM
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| posted on 6/1/16 at 04:15 PM |
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We got a Seat Mii - basic model but with aircon and I love it myself! Skinny tyres so you can really feel what's going on, ABS just in case,
hand wind windows etc. Means they can learn to drive and start adding bits to make it nicer (c-locking kit, electric windows etc) without insurance
hassles. Also from what I've been told has a bit of street cred.
I would have put them into something older and more basic but the Mrs wouldn't have it.
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JC
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| posted on 6/1/16 at 08:27 PM |
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A great selection of opinions! Before my current car, I had a basic Citroen C1 - loved it, and this is MY first choice for him.....
During my yoof, we thought it hilarious when crammed in a mates mk2 escort, over steering towards a lamppost - fills me with dread nowadays when I
think what might have happened! But then, I share his idea of something different from the masses - I have always done this, Scimitar SS1 when
everyone was buying MX5s, ZX Volcane instead of an XR3i etc......
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