Has anybody else had problems getting their orders out of MK?

Everyone there is friendly and helpful - all the reasons I chose MK in the first place. But, I've paid for stuf and it's taking an age to materialise and every time I ring, they seem to hacve forgotten that I've paid for stuff and they haven't even started making it yet!

Just wondering if it's just me, or is it par for the course (and having a gripe about it all too!)

to put it in context - how long have you been waiting and for what?

I only ask because there have been cases on here of people griping about delivery times but it turned out they had un-realistic expectations.........

I ordered all of my stuff in May, and the majority arrived in July(ish), but there were a few bits missing. Not a problem as they were bits that I didn't really need, apart from the ali floor, which I went and picked up along with a few other bits.

What I'm waiting on is the paddle shift gear linkage and the aeroscreen. The aeroscreen I understand, because there was a problem with the form and it was being rectified. The gearshift is a different story - I've rang a few times and each time it's not yet built and low and behold, rang today:

"We'll struggle because it's Doningotn at the weekend"

I'm a generally understanding person (outside of my work!), but I've paid for this stuff months ago - I'm a bit fed up of having to chase things up myself, and even remind them who I am every time I ring.

It'd have cost more, but I bet I wouldn't have had this problem at Westfield!

I have to say that MK where on the whole pretty helpful during my build.

However they were not faultless, but usually sorted any problems out pretty quickly.

When I picked up my kit they didn't have the nose cone, pedals or upper wishbones.

I got them a couple of weeks later at the Donnington Show.

I tried phoning to get the propshaft made a few times, but in the end went down there on a Saturday to get it done while I waited.

But that said, when I was standing in my local motor factors trying to decide which brake fluid to get I rang them and they had an answer straight away.

Swings and roundabouts really!

They are no worse than any other company out there, with the exception of MAC1, who everytime I ordered something from them it arrived the very next day (admittedly stock parts, nothing to be fabricated).

Mike

I appreciate that - I just feel I haven't had the full MK treatment that people recommend them for. More being cast aside while they chase new orders at shows becuase they've already got my cash.

I realise this is a hobby industry rather than anything more professional, but I'm finding it incredibly hard to be understanding!

Next car will be from MNR!

'Tis a bit of a shame when this happens. One reminder you can handle. Even a second is Ok ish as long as it gets results but when it continues...

Sounds like there isnt an ordering system in place that is regularly monitored to check everything is sent out. A simple file for open orders in date order and another for closed orders would work. They might of course have one already. I guess we are all human and things do occasionally get missed in all walks of life.

Most people seem to have a good relationship with MK. Seems that face to face contact often wins the day in general (i dont mean just Mk, just in general). At least then you can push for a final date. Might be worth having a drive down sometime and talking about it. Unfortunately going public doesnt seem to get desired results, although in your defence (although no defence really needed) you have only asked if others have had similar experience.

Maybe someone can ask for you at a Sat morning meet or at a show.

[Edited on 13/9/06 by DarrenW]

It was Baz I spoke to.

I'm fairly appreciative that they're busy etc. and the things I've been waiting on have been in development/redevelopment. But I have paid them nearly £5,000 of my money and I have certain expectations for that sort of cash - perhaps knowing who I am without me having to describe myself, where I live and wait for the penny to drop!

Cheers Darren - I said to Baz I'd ring back early next week to remind them on and would pick up the items the following weekend - I'm understanding about deadlines for shows etc because my life revolves around them (however, I get an absolute bleeching if I miss one, as do the guys who work for me!). These should be last parts I need from them, so that'll sort out the problem for future!

[Edited on 13/9/06 by StevieB]

Sounds like the wait isnt the main issue, lets face we it we can all accomodate a decent (ie lengthy) leadtime for quality low volume bits.

I know what you mean when you have to explain yourself each time. I occasionally come across this, problem is it doesnt instill confidence. Mind you i bet its difficult for some companies to remember everyone and their order details all of the time. My memory is well crap, i wouldnt relish such a job in customer services etc. i at least try and keep people informed of progress from time to time. Its surprising how tolerant some people are when you are late but have at least kept in touch.

I hope it goes well for you. Fingers are crossed.

mate I loved my MK its a great looking car

and they are very friendly people

but you are right you have given them thousands of pounds of your hard earned money

during my build I had so many occasions where it held me up or caused me problems

theres like some conspiracy theory free masons thing in the Kit Car Industry where if you run anyone down your the one to blame its great I wish I could do it in my business Id be closed down withing the week

there Unorganisation is unbelievable
but we cant say anything Ok

its like your to expect it from the Kit Car industry

I purchased quite a few items from different 7 stlye manafacturers and I would say they were all as organised as each other

It'd be a simple computer database so when someone rings, you call up their file and it has a list of issues/past discussions etc. At worst, a notebook with the same. Basically, a set of minutes for every conversation with every customer. It's simple to me, but I deal with £millions (of other peoples money) and it's a basic expectation of the client.

However, the car will still be great, and I'm sure all these little dissapointments will wash away with the first feel of the wind in my face!

Hi just be thankful it not robin hood sports cars your dealing with.

Customer service is a 4 letter word to them it seems to me

Plus they may have gone t#ts up

10 months and still no tasty bonnet badge,
Think I will put Robin Hood one on it. LOL

It'd almost be better if MK were not friendly to deal with - it's much easier to get torn into people who you don't like over those who are admin biffs but freindly with it!

quote:

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Originally posted by zoom
Hi just be thankful it not robin hood sports cars your dealing with.

Customer service is a 4 letter word to them it seems to me

Plus they may have gone t#ts up

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i phoned them last monday,
ordered an exhaust and gear linkage

baz said about 2 weeks,
told him i needed it quicker
and went up saturday and when i arrived he was still making the linkage !( but no problem)
but everything else was there

so i didnt have it delivered but the service was SPOT ON !

will use them again well worth 450 mile trip ! and i got a cup of tea !


but the wife says they looked like HILL BILLYS !!
NOT SURE WHAT SHE MENT !

I've no doubt they're good in general, it's just the little things that make me regret parting with my money - if I was buying a tin top car, you can bet the service would be a hell of a lot better!

sorry,
i under stand what you mean !
i forgot for a while about kit car makers
having finished my build early this year !

it more frustrating, there were time i wanted to go and kill certain people .

at the moment im just changing my engine and trying to buy parts instead of making them (for speed)
and certain firms ( who wont be named) just didn't want to sell me things !

i wont even think about using them anymore, some firms i tried before when i was building and told me to get lost
but gave them another go and still same reply !
one firm told me its not our car and were only selling to our customers !
which i though was strange, as if i cannot buy from them , how the hell do they think they will sell me a car.
certain firms are so far up there arses its untrue

[Edited on 13/9/06 by ch1ll1]

I think the problem is that it's a hobby industry - because we're all supposed to be friends together with a shared interest, service doesn't matter. However, these firms are asking us to part with thousands of pounds, which goes a little beyond general disposable income in most homes.

In all honesty, they should suck up a bit more, because it's not as if you're buying an essential item - they need to convince you that spending all of your extra pennies with them is wothwhile!

Maybe we should march on parliament or something?

here here

if it wasnt for people like you and me and people on websites like this

would they still be trading !

Maybe there should be some sort of JD Power type survey for kit manufacturers?

I have to admit I was pretty hacked off with the wait involved with getting my half chassis and other bits and pieces from MK after I hit my car. Ironically, now I'm thinking of build another road car I'd probably go for an MK again!

I'll probably have a much better shop around next time!

in fairness, i ordered front wings wednesday collected saturday

ordered grill monday got it in the post thursday etc etc not had ant probs myself

quote:

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Originally posted by StevieB
I think the problem is that it's a hobby industry - because we're all supposed to be friends together with a shared interest, service doesn't matter. However, these firms are asking us to part with thousands of pounds, which goes a little beyond general disposable income in most homes.

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Yeah - I had a notion of some form of jD Power type customer satisfaction survey - but it'd fall down on some major points:

1. Dumb customer loyalty in the kit car industry - a bit like supporting a football club I think, regardless of how well your team is doing, you'll still think they;'re great and slag off all the others.

2. If it was done by one of the mags, they appear just a bit too close and cosy with some manufacturers for my liking.

3. Would anyone pay attention due to point 1?

I'm not keen on Westfield's product or Caterhams pricing, but they've got the customer service thing licked if you ask me - they behave like a corporate machine selling a lifestyle, rather than some of the manufacturers, who almost discourage new entrants to the hobby like me because you feel like there's a wall to break down first to get into the club. I've never been much of a conformist anyway!

[Edited on 13/9/06 by StevieB]

The important thing to remember about Westfield and Caterham is that you pay for that good customer service - all those people on the end of the phone have to be paid for, and that's factored into the cost of the kit.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the others, though...

David

Hi altho if you were to buy the basics from westfield Ie the chassis the body work and suspension witch IMHO is verry good value for monney and then build the rest of it as you would any other locost as long as you did a good job you would have a car with a higher resale value and one that didnt have all these small problems that the likes of mk-luego-gts seem to have.

Oh and the handeling is just a bit better aswell.

cheers matt

like I said the kit car companies are like some conspiracy thing

I scratch your back you scratch mine

the mags write about sales being down in 2006 the reason sales are dwon in 2006 is because the customer service is shite
and people are catching onto it

there to scared to write it though as the companies pay for adverts

it needs someone to do an article whos not scared of upsetting and start getting the truth out

also if someone else started a 7 manafacturer company but had fantastic customer service/fair priced kit they would run the show !!!!!!!!


ta
chris

Hi thats exactly what happens with the mags witch is why even when they report on a pile of s**t if they are an advertiser it still gets a glowing report.

Think about it have you ever seen a report in either of the mags that says this car is c**p and dosent handle. No they let the poor punters find that out for themselfs after they have spent all there hard earned cash.

And i am not aiming that at any company inpaticular just the mags.

cheers matt

we need the top gear of kit cars

top gear is a bit biased but at least they take the wee out of things

quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins
The important thing to remember about Westfield and Caterham is that you pay for that good customer service - all those people on the end of the phone have to be paid for, and that's factored into the cost of the kit.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the others, though...

David

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quote:

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Originally posted by zxrlocost
like I said the kit car companies are like some conspiracy thing

I scratch your back you scratch mine

the mags write about sales being down in 2006 the reason sales are dwon in 2006 is because the customer service is shite
and people are catching onto it

there to scared to write it though as the companies pay for adverts

it needs someone to do an article whos not scared of upsetting and start getting the truth out

also if someone else started a 7 manafacturer company but had fantastic customer service/fair priced kit they would run the show !!!!!!!!


ta
chris

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I've had the idea's in the past that I'd be able to run a kit manufacturer quite well - I have a fair idea of what new entrants into the market want and the level of service/options as well. I'm a commercial manager who knows that margin and profit are the lifeblood of a company, and that comes from customer loyalty through good service.

What I'm not is an engineer, so I wouldn't have the first idea about manufacturing the cars in the first place (although most seem to be a variation of the book chassis anyway).

I've noticed on Totalkitcar.com that the ST Locoblade project is for sale though...

PS - Westfield may seem expensive for their normal kit packages, but it's entirely new parts and comes in phases designed to help the novice builder. If you go for the signle donor version (now based on the MX5), it'll cost about £7,000 plus the donor. About the same as I'm building my MK for.

quote:

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Originally posted by iank
The big boys got a talented sales and marketing guy/gal on board quickly to deal with that side of the business while the 'boss' played around improving current models and designing the next one.

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quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins

quote:

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Originally posted by iank
The big boys got a talented sales and marketing guy/gal on board quickly to deal with that side of the business while the 'boss' played around improving current models and designing the next one.

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They also have receptionists, office staff, possibly a QA manager, and so on.

David

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That's how Westfield started too - a bloke living at Westfield Cottage made a business out of restoring classic cars and selling them - got his mits on an old clapped out Lotus 7, rebuilt it and sold it. Someone else asked him to do another for them, and the rest is history.

You have to start out as a customer oriented business that makes cars to their spec, not just making cars that you like that someone else may want to buy (and should think themselves lucky for being allowed to buy!)

Dare I mention that I have always been happy with the customer service and supply times from Tiger! I know that quite a few people have had a different opinion of their experience with them (and leaving aside any issues with the kit itself!) but mine has been positive - so far....

As far as customer service goes, I have always had replies to my technical queries dealt with speedily. Any orders have been delivered on time and complete. I have never had to try for days to make contact, there is always someone there to answer the phone..........


BTW - did you know that a lot of the Tiger chassis were made by Luego before they recently changed hands?

[Edited on 14/9/06 by DaveFJ]

And that's the problem Dave. Different people have different experiences and expectations when it comes to customer service. You always hear bad things about the kit manufacturers when they haven't delivered / lived up to expectations but you seldom hear and indeed would get bored of hearing about all the times that kit manufacturers exceed expectations.

I'm talking about all kit manufacturers here and not any one in particular. I've heard good and bad about them all - thats life

Phil

I disagree entirely - you do hear the good stuff about manufacturers as well. That's why I chose the MK, purely based on what people have to say about the cars and the people.

However, when you pay a lot of money out, do you regard good service as a bonus or as what you have paid for?

The kit industry has a garden workshop image, but is charging full prduction line prices - there's a lot of choice about (especially for 7 type cars) to the manufacturers need to raise the game a little!

Maybe my expectations are a little too high and I should just fork out my hard earned savings and keep quiet when I'm not happy.

quote:

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Originally posted by StevieB
...
However, when you pay a lot of money out, do you regard good service as a bonus or as what you have paid for?

The kit industry has a garden workshop image, but is charging full prduction line prices - there's a lot of choice about (especially for 7 type cars) to the manufacturers need to raise the game a little!

Maybe my expectations are a little too high and I should just fork out my hard earned savings and keep quiet when I'm not happy.

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Well, MK's latest brochure says 250 cars a year, which is reaching fairly decent proportions!

I think we've gone quite a bit off topic by now, but it's fairly obvoous that people aren't happy with the level of service they recive, but are willing to accept it because thats the way it's always been.

i spoke to baz today and the paddle shift system will be getting an all day test at donnington tomorrow and if it performs ok then it will be getting made in quantity. i get the feeling that the guys will be happier about selling it after its had some proper shakedown.

Now I'm p****d off then!

I bought and paid for it with my kit in May and have been expecting it since then, and had been appreciative that peopple were on holiday etc.

Now I find out they're not even ready to sell it to people yet.

I'd have rather saved the £150 I paid for it and got one from somewhere else.

WHAT ARE PEOPLES EXPECTATIONS OF CUSTOMER SERVICE?

If i pay £2495 for a kit and get told my collection date, i expect ALL of the kit to be ready.
Not be missing pedals, wishbones and uprights, get told they will be in the post Monday and there not. Three phone calls and four weeks later they arrive.

Since then i have always used MAC# 1 for any parts required and there service has been good, however i sure they dont get it right everytime.

For me it's not all about getting the stuff on time - the things I'm waiting for won't be needed for a while.

It's about communication - I bought a paddle shift system on the basis that I could have it when it's made, I've been waiting a while and made a few phone calls etc. and been understanding about people being on holiday etc. Now I find out the thing I've bought hasn't even been fully developed yet.

If they'd said that at the time, I'd have held off and waited and wouldn't be as pissed off as I am.

if you are to buy something that is not yet made then you should be told where you stand !

and yes building cars is our hobby , but all the kit makers its not a hobby its a job were they earn very good money !

you dont go to tesco and pay for your milk and receive it next week do you !

not sure how to cure this problem ! ( is there an answer?)

but the only way i see is if they bleep me about i wont use them ever again,
i wont slag the firm off like some do !
but i might give out my opinion

[Edited on 14/9/06 by ch1ll1]

maybe the problem isn't the manufacturers but the customers. If your customers are hard to please, you have to try harder. If the accept the blows because we're all mates together in this hobby, then why would you bother to get better?

Innfairness, I get the impression that a lot of firms started out as a few blokes who built a few cars and some other people wanted to buy them. The problem is that now these firms are getting to the point where they can't operate like that anymore - time to use nasty phrases like 'supply chain analysis' 'customer support' 'brand image' etc.

I think that's it really. Most may have started as afew blokes, a shed and a mig welder. Suddenly they have to make 10 kits rather than 1 and things start to get muddled up. Even more so if there's a few blokes. Bob answers the phone, takes a message for Dave, forgets and tells trev down the pub later who mistakes it and orders a kebab instead! Or something like that.

But like I said - if no-one makes any demands, there's no force for change. At the moment, it feels like you're buying a car from the bloke down the pub, whereas it should be like you're buying from a business that wants you to get your goods and be satisfied enough to come back for more later.

I know what you mean. When I think of a kit company I see a few blokes in a garage/workshop in oily overalls with grubby mugs of tea. What there should be/needs to be is a bloke in a suit running the shop and not building them. He organises everything and tells the oily blokes what to do each day.

I often have ideas about such stuff myself - I understand what makes a company successful and how to run the commercial side of the show. What I lack is the ability to start out witha mig welder and a large garage, so the iverheads are very high from the start by having to employ someone to be able to fabricate the goods in the first place.

That looks to be the main problem. You as a commercial mind, couldn't afford to employ an engineering mind/welder until you were able to make a few kits/demo cars to show off. Equally, the engineering mind can't afford to employ a commercail mind until he get's going. And at that point, he needs another welder rather than a bloke who doesn't actually help much (compared to a bloke with a mig).

Maybe there are several firms who need a commercial spring clean - I could consult.

Then I could make some extra money through industrial espionage too!

I'll ask one question, would we all be happy to accept a £300 rise in the price of the kit for better service?
after all any extra cost must go to the customers somehow.


I have to say that I had promised delivery dates missed with my Indy.... but then I had the same when I ordered my Ultima!
But for the money I think its fantastic value (certainly compared to the Ultima)and can forgive them their failings...

In your possition I would phone them and ask for the money back imediatelly until they have the parts ready.

I've said I'll call early next week and figure it out from there if I don't get ea reasonable timescale or explanation.

The other thing that bothers me is that I've paid £150 for the paddle shift, and there's been some for sale on this forum that are niver looking and a lot cheaper too!

I believe we are already paying a good enough oprice to warrant good service. If I'd paid £5k for a second hand car, I'd have blasted them out of the water by now for this sort of thing!