Hi to all.
I am new to the locost thing and building my first car. After doing lots of research I decided to build the GTS chassis to use single sierra donor and keep things simple. Or so I thought.
Ive just started to build the rear section but the suspension mounts appear to be the same as a "book" chassis indicating the use of an escort axle and not IRS. Am I wrong?
I found some Sierra IRS plans from GeorgeCushing.net. Should I use these instead?
Any help and suggestions gratefully received after all I could just be reading the plans wrong.
Cheers
Dan

Welcome to the nut house

The rear mounts are the same as the book car yes, because the GTS cars uses a de dion axle that all the parts from the sierra IRS fit into.

So its not IRS or live axle. But it does use all of the IRS parts from the sierra without modification.

David

Ah ha! I see the marketing ploy now.
Ithink I may use the gts rear shell for the possibilty of fitting their panels and fit the GoergeCushing suspension and diff mounts. After all his plans seem very good.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Dan

De Dion is the best way to go

I think after looking at flak monkey's web site I think you're right De Dion is probably best and easiest, although I did want to try to make as much as possible to keep with the Locost idea. But hey £150 is not expensive and it wont go far without suspension.

Thanks Guys

Dan

Hi Dan, I do work for GTS from time to time and the cars are dead easy to put together.

Whereabouts in kent are you?

The De-deon axle is very good, dont hessitate to ask any questions if you get stuck.

Hi Ben,

I'm on the Westside in Tonbridge, prob an hour or so drive from you. (Depends what you're driving I suppose.)

I am thinking the gts De-Dion is the easier and most logical solution, after all if everything comes from one place it should fit like dream ish.
The only downside being that their website seems to be falling apart I cant seem to get many pics and the pdf's dont seem to work. Could be my pc though.

Thanks for the offer on questions I'm feeling very welcome here.

Dan

Just let me know by email or U2U and i'll see what i can get you. Picture wise.

I'll be ringing Darren later so i'll see what i can get, the website is a problem, but best to just ring him anyway. The workshop is in Longfield near Ash/Dartford area so you can always arrange to go see him there.

I was right by you at the weekend looking for a car for my mother... spooky lol

[Edited on 10/10/05 by Ben_Copeland]

Theres a picture of the De-dion axle on his website, found that.

I've got PDF of the chassis design if you need it.

Hi Ben,


I'm about to start building and would really appreciate taking a look at the pdf files of the gts chassis

Many thanks

Paul

I've only got a basic pdf of the back end. It's not the one he has. but it'll get u going

Hi Ben,

I think I have that pdf already but thanks for the offer

You may be able to point me int the right direction though!! I have the Mcsorely book chassis plans, aussie mod bracing plans and the GTS de dion back end plans. I have noted dimensionally these plans are all compatible with one another so expect things to work out ok. With your experience do you think this should work out???


Many thanks

Paul

The GTS locost is based on the orginal locost, so is the mcsorley plans, so I should think they'll be just fine together. Theres no reason why the GTS back end shouldn't be fine for any locost.

I did email you the pdf always

Thanks Ben

Much appreciated!

Paul

Hi, after finding not much info on plans for the irs I forked out for an MK rear irs. It cost £500 but its a work of art. It came with the wishbones and uprights and starts from the rear bulkhead behind the seats. Its an expensive option but an option.

Ben,

That is spooky! Lucky you were'nt buying from me

I have plans for the rear chassis section (if thats the one that comes with the plans from GTS) Talking of which I didnt realise they were so close. That'll save a few quid on postage. (After all it is supposed to be Locost.) Thanks for the pic Ben, it helps when you can visualise something, and it all becomes clear.

As for the MK rear end, although full irs would be nice like flak monkey says you only have 2-3 inches suspension travel so will the gain be that apparent? (Not that I know just what I read.) Interesting to know though. I have not seen the MK chassis. Maybe worth a look if only to be nosey.

Dan

I did say that, and I still belive it. However you may notice the difference on the track if you are planning to use the car for track days. How much of a difference I am not sure. However a poorly set up IRS system will give you far worse handling than a well set up de dion system IMO.

You would probably be better off saving the money and sticking an LSD a de dion set up than fork out for the IRS set up.

All IMO

David

I've got a LSD for mine

I will use the GTS de-dion when i change from Escort Live axle to sierra back end, so easy to change it.

Dan, i'll give ya a shout when i'm next going to a locost meeting, convoy if ya like.

Going off at a slight tangent and almost hijacking my own thread. I'm fitting an LSD into my Merc and this has an electronically controlled acumulator to engage/disengage the diff. The sierra one is obviously not like this???

Sorry to hear about the pug 406 Ben. I worked on one a while ago that did the same and made cambelt jump. Changed the belt and all was ok. Fingers crossed.

A locost meet would be great, a chance to let myself know what I am getting into.

Dan

Its ok, it's not mine

I drive a built proof Nissan Navara

Sierra Diff is defo not like that lol far to complicated for ford lol

Well if your ever in the Margate/Broadstairs area let me know and you can see what you've let yourself in for lol

So has anybody got some drawings of the DD bracket. Something I can give to an engineering shop and they can make it for me.
I have red the treat on the manufacturing of a DD bracket some time ago, but it stopped after everybody critisised the 12 mm boiler plate flanges.

Something Like that

Its a bit big so follow the link to it :

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/suspension%20mounting.gif

I have no idea who it belongs to, but you get the rough idea

[Edited on 11/10/05 by Ben_Copeland]

Thanks Ben

Is there an assembly drawing, of the whole thing.

Check out my Photo Archive, I've made a folder with some diagrams in.

No idea were they came from, so dont rely on them totaly

[Edited on 12/10/05 by Ben_Copeland]

Are you sure it is not easier to make the IRS wishbones and have everything adjustable?

Well it would involve lots of mods to the chassis, plus if you dont get it set up right and the wishbones in the right position the handling with be awful. You can really go wrong with live/de-dion axle.

Dare I say I have a friend with a 1.7 X flow Caterham. (Am I allowed to say that here?) He has a live axle set up and does around 59sec laps at Brands, not sure how quick that compares but was about 5 seconds a lap quicker than another friends £25k track mk1 Golf gti which is a lot. I must admit I am now converted away from the irs idea and beleive if any real gain is apparent whether it is worth all the extra work and fabrication. IMO anyway.

I don't normally venture to that neck of the woods Ben, but will definately let you know if I do. Thanks for offer.

It is just the lack of proven drawings that put me off.

If you can manufacture front wishbones, why will the back ones be more complicated?

If you can fit the front wishbone brackets to a tapering frame, why is it so difficult to fit ir to the rear frame where things are a little more sqare?

Remember I will be building my own chassis.

Don't be put off by the lack of drawings
There are quite a few of us on here doing our own thing with IRS. As you say it's relativley easy to construct.
My approach was to sit down and read as much as I could about IRS, then apply what I'd read to my build.
In the process I've learned to use CAD, (albeit not to it's full potential) which has come in useful in other areas on the car.
Go for it

Mick

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mix
Don't be put off by the lack of drawings
There are quite a few of us on here doing our own thing with IRS. As you say it's relativley easy to construct.
My approach was to sit down and read as much as I could about IRS, then apply what I'd read to my build.
In the process I've learned to use CAD, (albeit not to it's full potential) which has come in useful in other areas on the car.
Go for it

Mick

---

Did you use differnet length upper and lower wishbones?
what was the lengths you used?

Hi Kango,

Top one is a book front (top) but without the offset for caster.
Bottom is about twice as long.

It does depend on the length of the rod ends though.

I can measure exactly if you like in the morning.

HTH

Paul G

Would be appreciated.

do you have some photoes of your set up?

Hi again Kango,

As set up at the moment, from the centre of the eye of the rod end,
to the centre of the w/b pivot (poly bush) is:-

top w/b 240mm (+ or - 15 adjustment)

bottom w/b 425mm (+ or - 15)

note: these dims do depend on the design of the upright, i.e. flange face to r/e pivot.

There are pics in my archive (irs rear & rear w/b's)
The top bracket rail with the shaped cut out for the d/shaft is made from 3mm wall.


atb

Paul G

WOW !

What coating is on your chassis?

Dust

Dont forget the stainless effect