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Build or Buy ?
semi42 - 28/7/02 at 06:20 PM

I'm a competent welder, work close to a steel stockholder and I own a large Mig welder. This is my first attempt at this kind of project. I intend to use a sierra as a donor car. Should I purchase a chassis frame or attempt one myself. Is it easy to modify the locost chassis as described in Ron Champion's book (which I have yet to purchase) to accept the Sierra' running gear and IRS.

theconrodkid - 28/7/02 at 06:36 PM

Its not as dificult as it loks to build a chassis,there are photos in the archives and some drawings around,no doubt someone will tell you where they are,just do it!

theconrodkid - 28/7/02 at 06:38 PM

Its not as dificult as it loks to build a chassis,there are photos in the archives and some drawings around,no doubt someone will tell you where they are,just do it!

theconrodkid - 28/7/02 at 06:41 PM

Must be that garlic repeating!

Marcus - 28/7/02 at 08:00 PM

If you're worried about fitting IRS from the Sierra, why not go De Dion. MK still sell the necessarys for about 100 quid.
Uses similar mountings to live axle.

Jon Ison - 28/7/02 at 08:39 PM

build...

RoadkillUK - 28/7/02 at 08:42 PM

I would really suggest building it, it's so satisfying (although I have built mine to the book).

btw, my website has been updated with pics of the donor escort and our method of removal.

Jasper - 28/7/02 at 10:05 PM

Build ..... I couldn't weld at all and have now nearly finished managed to build a 'book' chassis, no problems ....Why do you want to go Sierra??

semi42 - 28/7/02 at 10:07 PM

Sierra seems to me one of the easiest and cheapest options, what do you suggest?

Metal Hippy™ - 28/7/02 at 10:24 PM

Be insane and use a 3.5 litre BMW like me...

Always fun being a fruitloop..

Alan B - 28/7/02 at 11:43 PM

quote:
I'm a competent welder, work close to a steel stockholder and I own a large Mig welder.......


To be honest build or buy should be a foregone conclusion

I can understand anyone who has never built a car before having some reservations, but you'll have a flying start. Save your cash for stuff you can't make

All IMO of course

stephen_gusterson - 29/7/02 at 09:39 AM

Having seen an MK chassis it makes me depressed I could never do one that good.

However, welding up the chassis is probably one of the most enjoyable bits of the build. it all gets slower after that point!


Unless you are gonna race it, dont get obsessed with an independent rear end. Using a live rear axle saves a shyte load of time and allows you to follow the book. AFAIK there are no definitive plans for a independent locost chassis....might be wrong.

If you want to see how a sierra rear end fits, look at a robin hood - if you want a built chassis, then build a hood as it uses that rear end.....

The sierra rear is BIG and would take a shed load of mods to fit. Get it off the car, stare at it for a while, and rethink!

atb

steve

Jasper - 29/7/02 at 09:41 AM

Yeh,... stick with a Cortina/Escort, it's simpler and there's still plenty of them around cheap. Save the cash for a bike engine like me!!!

semi42 - 29/7/02 at 05:31 PM

Thanks for the advice..I'm gonna build. Live axles however seem rather scace in my neck of the woods . There is, however a p100 that I can maybe get my mitts on. would the rear axle assy and the front suspension components be compatible with a book chassis ?

theconrodkid - 29/7/02 at 05:54 PM

P100 axle is toooooooooooo heavy front hubs are cortinaish but 5 stud try to find a lada they have all the running gear or go as you say seirra.

Jon Ison - 29/7/02 at 06:04 PM

live axles can handle done properly anyways.......yesterday a MK2 escort came 4th, a MK1 5th, in a race field of 32 cars including...eccort cosworths, sirrea cosworths, focus....turbo fiesta's sound'ed cool the pair of em too, running BDA and BDG on gret feck off snorters.....

locodude - 29/7/02 at 08:52 PM

Hi Jon
Would 'gret feck off snorters' translate to rather large twin carburettors. I don't know, I allways seem to have trouble deciphering you common folk!
Chris PTM

Jon Ison - 29/7/02 at 08:55 PM

like buckets they was.........huge fec off buckets........

locodude - 29/7/02 at 09:00 PM

Dear, dear me. The riff raff have definately taken over, and it used to be so genteel in here!
BTW Jon
Been speaking to someone tonight who used to race against you. Mr JBM, jesus, I could'nt get away quick enough when he started telling me about his wife running off with a 20 yr old! I think he needs a shoulder to cry on!
Chris PTM

Jon Ison - 30/7/02 at 08:38 PM

did he still have my dirt in his eyes ?
think i'll steer clear a that one, these shoulders are for holding up arms that hold french beer in Le-man......

semi42 - 30/7/02 at 09:06 PM

looking at a shortlist of local donor cars its between a mk 1 1.6 sierra, opel manta GTE or a w reg escort (old type) or so the adverts say. i've yet to look at any. Whats the recomendations. Ive been looking at the Mcsorley chassis plans and was wondering wether to use the wider or taller dimension chassis. I'm going to get some 1" box tomorrow and make a start.

stephen_gusterson - 30/7/02 at 10:22 PM

I wouldnt go for any of those.

if the mantas not rear drive, forget it - you will also be stuck for help cos few people use those. The FWD escort has absolutely loads of stuff on it you cant use - like the whole car. (assuming you mean a mk3 escort hatchback.

if you use a 1.6 sierra, as soon as you ahve the car on the road you are probably gonna long for more power. the 1.6 has 75hp. the 2.0 has 105. SO, choose the right car at the start and get 40% or so more power for absolutely nowt at all!

take your time over a donor - its likely to be a long project - dont rush the important bit of getting the right donor!

Using anything other than a xflow or bike seems to like a bit more height in the bonnet area.....and you might like a bit more width than the books 42 ins.

atb

steve

Alan B - 31/7/02 at 01:09 AM

Steve,

Wasn't the Manta RWD? and weren't 'W' reg Escorts Mk2s? I know V's were (page 32 the "book")

I say this for three reasons:

1 - They both may well be suitable
2 - Just to argue with you
3 - To increase my number of postings

Alan B - 31/7/02 at 01:10 AM

Oh yeah, I agree with the 1.6 Sierra though.
(110)

Metal Hippy™ - 31/7/02 at 02:02 AM

Alan, are you really trying to aim for being as sad as all them with high posting counts? (Myself included)

interestedparty - 31/7/02 at 06:45 AM

quote:


take your time over a donor - its likely to be a long project - dont rush the important bit of getting the right donor!

steve


Steve is absolutely right. Getting the right donor is essential.

John

ChrisW - 31/7/02 at 10:49 AM

All the Manta's I've ever seen have been RWD but I'm no Vauxhall expert.

W reg Escort should be mk2 (I used to have one on a W plate).

If not, use a Sierra (not the mk1 tho) and buy my 'spare' live axle!

Chris

Marcus - 31/7/02 at 05:48 PM

If the Escort is W reg, then it MAY be a Mkll if you're very lucky - ask if hatchback, if yes then MKlll - no good.
Astra front wheel drive anyway so forget it.
Manta can be done, but the GT/E engine is heavier than pinto (and more powerful).
If you buy all three, you may have the start of an interesting project.... Astra engine bolts up to Manta gearbox, Manta axle, uprights, steering column, steering rack, propshaft, hell don't bother with the Escort at all!

Marcus

stephen_gusterson - 31/7/02 at 06:26 PM

quote:
Steve,

Wasn't the Manta RWD?

and weren't 'W' reg Escorts Mk2s? I know V's were (page 32 the "book")

I say this for three reasons:

1 - They both may well be suitable
2 - Just to argue with you
3 - To increase my number of postings



The manta likely was, but its one of those cars that had several types, and i was trying to say if you use it, few others have so little support available.

the 'bustle' booted mk3 escort WAS around in W and I know I had a company mk2 escort at V reg, so I guess that was about the change over year. There are a lot of mk3 still around, so i took it to be likley one of them - didnt he mention fwd?

and in my haynes book it gives 105hp for the carb and 115hp for the injection. then of course theres the twin cam, which looks good for a std 125hp.


However, if i were in the states, that merkur 2.3 turbo looks a nice choice!


ATB

steve


no arguments!


semi42 - 31/7/02 at 09:21 PM

manta had gone and the escort was a mk3


so i'm still looking!

chrisg - 31/7/02 at 09:58 PM

W was the transition year from mk2 to mk3 Escort,not many W reg mk 2's tho.....

Cheers

Chris

stephen_gusterson - 31/7/02 at 10:32 PM

quote:
manta had gone and the escort was a mk3


so i'm still looking!



On spending 2 and a bit years reading lists like this, i recon that the easiest build route, if you follow the book, is use a cortina - got most of the bits you need. If its one with a xflow, even better as it appears to be one of the lower engines and helps the bonnet line.


One car that might give you nearly all you need, and plentiful in scrappies is a capri. Right kinda rear axle, wrong kinda front ones, and if you get an earlier one with a xflow, even better. I am sure there are others on here with better info.

If i were building a book car, i would spend 500 quid or so on a decent compatible donor - you will get it back in time saved.

Spent 260 quid on my granada donor, and was rewarded with a 2 owner 12 year old car with certified 70k on the v6 engine. Saves a whole loaded engine work.

Check this list next may when i hope its on the road, and see if I got screwed or not!




atb

steve

semi42 - 1/8/02 at 05:59 AM

Do Ganada's make good donors then for the main components ie engine, box,back axle, steering rack & column.
A former fast ford freeak friend has told me to keep away from the v6 as its a heavy lump with poor power to weight ratio and to stick with a Kent x flow or OHC pinto.
my problem seems to be that as I'm living near the coast,and the fact that the Council grits the roads when the temp drops by ˝ a degree there aren't many older cars knocking about.

stephen_gusterson - 1/8/02 at 08:01 AM

quote:
Do Ganada's make good donors then for the main components ie engine, box,back axle, steering rack & column.


Essentially, the mk3 granada has the same mechanicals as a sierra! Its just the body thats different, and I guess the track might be a bit wider. As far as the hubs are concerned they are 5 stud as opposed to sierras four, but if you use adaptes for the mcpherson strut to make them into 'cortina like' ones, there's no problem. or you gould get front 5 stud hubs from a mk1 or 2 granada.

The diff is the same, as is the type 9 box and the engine. Steering column and shaft too - the rack needs shortening whatever you use.


quote:



A former fast ford freeak friend has told me to keep away from the v6 as its a heavy lump with poor power to weight ratio and to stick with a Kent x flow or OHC pinto.



Well, thats debatable. The V6 is shorter than a pinto, but along with the pinto is quite tall. this might upset your bonnet line.

The other issue with a V6 is that they often have auto boxes. I bought a 2.4 L V6.

If you went that route, get a cologne engine - as fitted to granda later models - D or so on. They have better manifolds and are more reliable than earlier essex.

As far as weight is concerned, they are heavy. I guess about 35% heavier. But then that extra 45 hp over the pinto gets that back and more.

However, im not building a book car. If I was in your position, i would consider an 89 on sierra or granada with the twin cam 2 litre - its got 125 hp.

Whatever engine you use, beware of the height. A xflow seems to be the lowest. A locost can look wrong if you stretch the dimensions of this compact car too great - or you will have to have bulges in your bonnet.

if you want to see a v6 installed, look in

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/locost

if you look in the photos section, in my named file, (you need to register) there are pics there.

atb

steve