Whats the work worth ? Post.
big_wasa - 31/10/10 at 07:37 PM
Ok There must be a how to do a zetec efi install on the cheap thread every few days. My name pops up in most 
Whats a fare price to do the wiring side of the job ? its around 40 hours work to split the loom down and build it back up to fit the car.
I would need the ecu and matching key. I prefer 97 ones with owls code or 99 owl5 as ive done a few already. I need the tranceiver from around the key
with plug and a few cm of wire and and obd2 port if you want that function. Also maf sensor, O2 sensor. And of course the engine loom that goes to the
square plug that sits on the N/S inner wing on a mondeo.
I would provide materials such as a fuse box, fuses and wiring materials.
You will get back a loom that has jus a few labeled wires to join to your car loom. I will test it on my car. I would be looking at a turn around of
2~3 wks.
I would be looking at doing a few to pay for my IVA so just guaging interest and what people think the job is worth.
Ive done a mates and it flew through Iva.
over to you 
[Edited on 31/10/10 by big_wasa]
flak monkey - 31/10/10 at 08:00 PM
No idea, but good luck with it
You would obviously need to be able to compete with the cost of just using an aftermarket ECU.
l0rd - 31/10/10 at 08:00 PM
you mean a full loom for the car or the engine loom only?
lewis - 31/10/10 at 08:07 PM
Would have to be around the price of a fully build ms system or cheaper to get people interested I think. IMO
interestedparty - 31/10/10 at 08:09 PM
That's easy enough top work out, cost of parts plus whatever your rate for your time is, plus any incidental costs such a electricity etc.
So really all you have to do is decide how much an hour you want for your time, the rest you already know.
If you actually enjoy doing it, then maybe £5 an hour? If you don't mind doing it, but would rather be doing something else, then maybe £8-10. If
you are doing it as a business then at least £15
In terms of comtetiton, the fact that mapping will not be an issue would need to be taken into consideration.
[Edited on 31/10/10 by interestedparty]
big_wasa - 31/10/10 at 08:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by lewis
Would have to be around the price of a fully build ms system or cheaper to get people interested I think. IMO
Just engine managment.
We are talking way les than ms.
Ms kit has got to be around £250 with another £50 to wire it up. If you spend £300 on a rolling road you wont get it as smooth as my ecu but you
should get an extra 15bhp top end.
I am not looking at doing hundreds More like 4 to cover my IVA.
If your local I will install and show it working
will121 - 31/10/10 at 09:29 PM
its a positive way of getting through the IVA emisions and think lots relish the idea of plug and play, what sort of setup would you think of doing it
with? a griffin type setup or standard manifold if will fit, i used the ford ECU to run individual throttle bodies and worked well with 150bhp.
If you can sell it as a clear package with details of all other parts/hardwear required for a straight fit it woud say its got to be worth £250ish
especially when buyer would have option of selling it on if upgrading for another builder when they going through IVA
daviep - 1/11/10 at 04:48 AM
How about a picture of a completed loom so we can guage what we feel it would be worth?
I would have thought no more than £100, but I am Scottish and tight.
As a comparison a loom from "premier" is under £150, would you expect to be charging more than this and if so what would the justification
be?
Regards
Davie
interestedparty - 1/11/10 at 06:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
How about a picture of a completed loom so we can guage what we feel it would be worth?
Going by his descripption I don't think it would be fair to judge it by its finished appearance, in fact, the simpler it worked out to be once
all the work was done, the better for the end user, I would have thought.
The value would be better judged by considering what the alternatives would cost, and whether the purchace cost was the end of it (certainly
wouldn't be in the case of those that needed rolling roads to tune them)
daviep - 1/11/10 at 08:48 AM
quote:
Going by his descripption I don't think it would be fair to judge it by its finished appearance, in fact, the simpler it worked out to be
once all the work was done, the better for the end user, I would have thought.
The value would be better judged by considering what the alternatives would cost, and whether the purchace cost was the end of it (certainly
wouldn't be in the case of those that needed rolling roads to tune them)
Why can't I judge it by it's finished appearance? Is there some kind of hidden magic under the insulation which adds a huge amount to the
price? What quality of fuse box is used? etc etc etc.
The OP asked how much "we" thought a product might sell for, without some kind of idea of what the delivered product will consist of I would
find it impossible to say.
What I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't want is for people to say "yeah I'd pay an arm and a leg for that" and then invest
time/money, first person buys and says "can't believe I paid a million pounds for 2 meters of wire and a 99p fuse box, you can make this
yourself easily here's how......"
Customers generally don't really care how much development had to go in to a product, they care about how much they get and how much it costs.
Here is a quote from a recent thread to prove my point.
"Sorry to hijack this thread, but could you post some picture of what you get in the MK electric reverse kit, it seems to be just a starter motor
and a ring gear, just wondered what else they give you to justify the £360 price tag."
Also worth thinking about who you are targetting the product at? I'm thinking probably those on the tightest budgets?
Regards
Davie
interestedparty - 1/11/10 at 09:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Why can't I judge it by it's finished appearance?
Well, we will have to agree to disagree about that, then. I personally think judging things by appearance is dubious practice. I prefer to go by what
it can do for me.
MikeRJ - 1/11/10 at 09:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
How about a picture of a completed loom so we can guage what we feel it would be worth?
I would have thought no more than £100, but I am Scottish and tight.
There is no way in hell I would do 40 hours work for £100!
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
As a comparison a loom from "premier" is under £150, would you expect to be charging more than this and if so what would the justification
be?
I think people might be getting confused!
The Premier loom is primarily for the body electrical system, it has nothing to do with running any kind of engine management system.
big_wasa is questioning the viability of a service to get the OEM Ford engine management system up and running in a Locost. All the wiring required
for this would be in addition to any of the body electrical systems.
If you use a post '95 engine then you will have to pass the harsher emissions test for the IVA (and subsequent MOTs) which pretty much mandates
some kind of fuel injection. Your options are to modify the OEM system or use an aftermarket ECU.
daviep - 1/11/10 at 05:00 PM
I understand the difference between the two products, however although the plugs and connectors are different the cost of materials and the the
manufcturing process will be similar.
Good luck with the venture big_wasa.
Cheers
Davie
[Edited on 1/11/10 by daviep]
big_wasa - 1/11/10 at 06:26 PM
Thanks for the coments.
Mike you put it so so much beter than myself. Thanks.
The service I am talking about is the one of stripping down
THIS
Well just the main engine loom and a few plugs from the above are needed.
TO THIS
Nothing really to look at.
The loom will plug on to your engine and to the 104 pin ecu and come back to the bulk head where you will have a switched and perm live. Out puts for
your tacho and fuel pump aswell as other things like earths.
Why ? well thats easy.
You have your zetec in your car and you need to fuel it.
Lets asume you need fuel injection for emmisions reasons. You cant or dont want to spend the cash on an aftermarket ecu that needs wiring and
maping.
My solution, you plug it in and thats it.
I have already had one of my wiring jobs put through Iva and seen it pass.
It starts on the key and idles great.
Price would depend on the manifold you use as this alters the work involved.
[Edited on 2/11/10 by big_wasa]
AndyW - 1/11/10 at 08:29 PM
I agree with some of the comments and would like to add that some people would say that you can charge for example £300+ and that your time is worth
"x" amount, but I always view these idea's with this in mind, the people who rekon it should be top price are those who will never use
your services, and likewise people like me who have already asked you via u2u hundreds of questions would say do it cheap. I think its a great idea
and if you do come up with a figure please let me know (u2u) as I have all the parts to do this. Just might not have the dosh just yet. Good luck and
thanks for all the answers so far!!