Crush tubes and other advice
MikeP - 30/7/04 at 03:18 PM
I see the age old debate has started again...
Always entertaining, but often inconclusive.
If I could offer some suggestions:
If you've done it, how about saying "Here's how I did mine, and it's lasted xxxkm with out a problem, or with these problems: xxx.
I run it in these conditions: xxx".
Statements like "I've done it this way for 65 years" or "Everyone I know does it like this" don't really help - we need
to know the situation to know if they apply to us. For example, race use doesn't always translate well into street use. And materials and
techniques can sometimes improve over 1/2 a century 
.
If your advice has come from net wisdom (even from this board), perhaps post a link to the other discussion or site rather than quoting it as if
it's your own. There's lots of very bad net wisdom out there.
If you've only read or heard it and never done it, quote the source. We can check for ourself and make our own judgement on it's value.
If you've never done it yourself, perhaps refrain from giving advice?
Sorry for bitching about this again (at least it's been a while), but I hate seeing fights about these things. The best writer with no real
experience might get somone get killed. Maybe we can keep the discussions from getting personal - it's hard to argue with reality, it's
easy to argue with opinions.
Mike
Brooky - 30/7/04 at 04:12 PM
But I have given my advice that way for years without actually having any hard evidence to back it up, why should i stop now ?
(sorry couldnt resist - afternoon drinking and all !)
pbura - 30/7/04 at 10:02 PM
"Where there is much desire to learn, there of necessity will be much arguing, much writing, many opinions; for opinions in good men is but
knowledge in the making." -- John Milton
I've been lurking at the automotive section of Eng-Tips Forums, and it says a lot for LB that professionals
are discussing and debating many of the same issues as here (except for the bush tube thing 
).
The flow of ideas here has been impressive, and the world of Sevens is no doubt better off for it. However, I agree with you, Mike, that we should be
careful to label our speculations as such.
Pete
JoelP - 30/7/04 at 10:53 PM
i saw that other thread rolling on and on, i couldnt be arsed reading it after the last debacle. Is it remotely interesting? any handbags out yet?!
curiosity is stirring...
MikeP - 31/7/04 at 12:42 PM
True Pete, I enjoy the discussions too, I'd hate to see those stop. It's the proclamations as if from god with no useful information that
cause the arguments, and I learn nothing from them...
No one pointed out the obvious response to this thread: who the h*ll am I to be offering this advice - I've got no qualifications and I can
barely have a civil conversation with my own son .
Yeah Joel, the handbags are out - again .
pbura - 31/7/04 at 03:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MikeP
No one pointed out the obvious response to this thread: who the h*ll am I to be offering this advice
That crossed my mind , but I can see that you're going for more of the scientific method and high standards for documentation. Nothing wrong
with that!
The force of an argument is always dependent on how well it's supported. An "I think" backed up by good reasoning but few facts may be
worth investigating further. A "we've always done it this way" with no reasoning, but from an old hand, sets a standard that
shouldn't be toppled without a good reason.
Even some of the "I did it this way and it worked such and such" testimony can be crap, so reasoning and evidence always applies.
Sorting through available methods and materials is much of the fun of the hobby (ALL of it for me so far). Good thing our respective nanny states
have not insisted that car-building be left entirely to professionals (so far). That also implies a responsibility to be conscientious in our own
builds, warn others who are following dangerous practices, yada yada.
Pete
MikeP - 1/8/04 at 02:08 PM
Ah, but how do we tell the old hands from the guys who are just full of it? Not always that easy to tell, and even many of the guys I respect were
full of it on that thread.
It's not that they were wrong, it's that most of them answered without finding out or giving some basic information. Rorty was the only one
who mentioned the duro of the bushes! I'm sure that makes a big difference - 50 duro can stand and probably needs a lot more squish than 90 to
control suspension movement. 90 probably needs to be a pretty close fit and forcing into the brackets would be a bad idea. I don't know for
sure, but I suspect using the wrong clearances with the wrong duro is dangerous.
We don't need the scientific method when the question is "what colour seats do I need", but some of the questions could use more rigour
IMO. We could start with basic stuff - is the question being asked for road or track? Does the answer apply to road or track? I often can't
tell that from the questions or the answers.
I sometimes worry about how long it'll be till we see a lawsuit - portraying oneself as an expert and giving wrong advice that results in an
injury is just begging for a negligence suit 
.
Mike