Hi I'm currently building a road legal gs moon buggy with a honda cbr900 fireblade motor.
Wasn't really sure where or how to post this so ill need some advice from you guys.
Can I start a build thread and add pictures if so how and where do I do it ??
Thanks scott
Out of interest, how are these got through mSVA as there is a max power of 15kW for quadricycles? Do you fit a restrictor or something?
Sure - fire your progress and pics on this thread! 
Looking forward to seeing them!
Are you aware that it will need an IVA once you're finished (even though it's been previously registered)? Not teaching my granny to suck
eggs here, but thought I'd mention this early in your project build as plenty others with similar ideas to yours werent aware (it's because
you're taking the power beyond the max legal limit for the GS Moon buggies type-appropval).
quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
Out of interest, how are these got through mSVA as there is a max power of 15kW for quadricycles? Do you fit a restrictor or something?
They're already type-approved with a puny engine Matt.
I guess Dixyman has a previously registered one and is doing a conversion???
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
They're already type-approved with a puny engine Matt.
I guess Dixyman has a previously registered one and is doing a conversion???
quote:
Originally posted by Dixyman666
quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
Out of interest, how are these got through mSVA as there is a max power of 15kW for quadricycles? Do you fit a restrictor or something?
It originally had a 16bhp 250cc engine, it's already road legal so I don't need a sva test
I can get a iva test done at my local mot station so that's ok, it's just to say its save ain't it ? I've done engine conversions before and it's been fine
quote:
Originally posted by Dixyman666
I can get a iva test done at my local mot station so that's ok, it's just to say its save ain't it ? I've done engine conversions before and it's been fine
Sorry buddy, but an IVA can only be fine at a VOSA centre, will cost you 500-ish quid and to pass you will have to re-engineer a fair bit of the
buggy.
You could of course stick 2 fingers up to the process and take the risk of running it on its current type approval... but you won't be insured,
and you'll be driving an illegal motor.
Sod that then ill just run the risk
Fair enough. Be a decent spud though when the time comes to move it on and be sure to let any prospective owner know its not road legal (or return it
to its previous spec first).
So lets see your pics and hear your plans to stiffen the structure and upgrade your components to cope with the increased power.
I got the mot station to write to dvla when I put a bigger engine in my car to say it was done properly etc and they just changed the engine size on
the logbook is that not the case for a buggy ?
I've done extensive strengthening processes to the frame and I've got 4pot brembos to go on it with gaz adjustable shocks. I've also
got a sierra LSD for it so it ain't no bodge job !
quote:
Originally posted by Dixyman666
Hi I'm currently building a road legal gs moon buggy with a honda cbr900 fireblade motor.
Wasn't really sure where or how to post this so ill need some advice from you guys.
Can I start a build thread and add pictures if so how and where do I do it ??
Thanks scott
quote:
Originally posted by Dixyman666
Is that not the case for a buggy ?
Bodge job ?
That's fine if you're changing motors in a previously registered CAR, but won't work for your circumstances as your buggy is currently registered as a 'heavy quadricycle' and by increasing its power past the legal threshold it will become a 'motor car' (and will therefore require IVA as its changed category).
Oh i see thanks for that i dint realise it was different to a car conversion, o well ill just have to see what happens.
Can't put pics up for some reason ?
[Edited on 29/6/13 by Dixyman666]
Bit of a grey area mot wise as quads are tested as a class 4 with exemptions on emmisions . They used to get through with a mechanical lock on the hydraulic line to the rear brakes but that's been changed . Pretty sure its still testable as its within the same class but applying the rules to the bigger engine might mean it needs testing possibly a cat test if the engine is young enough . Personally if it was presented to me for test I wouldn't do it as I'm not sure if the low powered quad exemptions apply with a larger engine fitted
It's not a grey area at all Froggy. You shouldn't test it simply because its no longer a heavy quadricycle! It's new unrestricted
Fireblade engine means that it's now a motor car.
After all, you wouldn't test a vehicle that was recorded as being a trike if it was presented with a recently added fourth wheel!
I test what is presented to me . Engine size doesn't dictate wether or not I can test it and there is no requirement or practical way to weigh a
quad . Its not down to me to decide wether or not it needs iva . Without looking at the flowchart I can't say wether it would need an emmisions
test .
Going from 3-4 wheels is a change of test class , changing engines makes no difference regardless of weight its still a class 4
Emissions won't come into it as the fireblade is a carb model with no cat anyway. U lot are worrying to much !
Until you hit something or someone hits you and you're not insured.
All you need to do is prove the engine is made before 1st August 1992 . The engine swap or weight makes no difference . Engine changes are tested on whichever is oldest , your buggy is 1999 but is exempt due to being a quad . By the book it should be tested according to whatever age the new engine is as its a class 4 vehicle , carb or not if its post 92 it comes into the cat test criteria . In reality you are unlikely to have any issues but that's the way I see it going off the testing guide
The buggy is a 2008 and the engine is a 1999
Looks like you need a cat then
But the bike doesn't have a cat so why would it need a cat now ?
Because its fitted into a car which is tested to the same standard as any other car depending on age . Quads , buggies and microcars are exempted from emmisions testing . There is a section in the guide covering engine swaps so no way round it unless you find somewhere that isn't bothered about following the guide .
I've got a friendly mot tester 
Hairy muff , perhaps not a good idea to broadcast your project if you don't want to go through the iva process .
Was thinking just that froggy. Broadcasting on possibly the busiest kit car forum that you intend to build a vehicle that requires IVA and that you
are not going to simply because you have a chassis number and V5 that you can use on it isn't the brightest move. IMO this is as bad as someone
using the donor v5 and chassis number to use their kit on the road.
[Edited on 29/6/13 by theduck]
It'll be fine
One here with a Kawasaki engine, must be road legal it says so in the title. That's VU07BNE for anyone wanting to check the details Friendly
MOT tester who isn't bothered about staying in business much longer when VOSA check up on him.
[Edited on 29/6/13 by Peteff]
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
One here with a Kawasaki engine, must be road legal it says so in the title. That's VU07BNE for anyone wanting to check the details
[Edited on 29/6/13 by Peteff]
quote:
Originally posted by froggy
Going from 3-4 wheels is a change of test class
quote:
Originally posted by froggy
... perhaps not a good idea to broadcast your project if you don't want to go through the IVA process...
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
One here with a Kawasaki engine, must be road legal it says so in the title. That's VU07BNE for anyone wanting to check the details
[Edited on 29/6/13 by Peteff]
quote:
Originally posted by Dixyman666
quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
Out of interest, how are these got through mSVA as there is a max power of 15kW for quadricycles? Do you fit a restrictor or something?
It originally had a 16bhp 250cc engine, it's already road legal so I don't need a sva test
Lol yes it's all being modified to cope with the power, u lot worry to much.
I'm just thinking you could quite easily hit something at 70mph, and what you hit is rollbar... Good luck to you, and it's probably a great
laugh to drive/ride just looks to me like it's slightly more dangerous than a motorbike...
Plus it's not so much worry, more "we'd like you to make sure that when you floor it the engine won't rip out of the frame, and
you'll be able to stop too"
They'll be no chance of the engine falling out, it'll have brembo 4 pots on the front and 2 pots on the back with gaz coilovers with adjustable dampening etc I can't seem to be able to upload pics to this site from my I phone so I guess ill have to upload them using my computer ?
A bit bizarre to think that if you keep something quiet it means it will be ok.
The vehicle will be illegal to use on the road as any mot and insurance will not be valid (it mayjust become harder to detect as illegal). Illegal due
to it not being declared as a radically altered vehicle, so radical it has changed class.
You would need to alter the chassis at least to house the engine and much more since the original was designed to handle about 16hp. You need to alter
the brakes and suspension to cope with the changed engine. power and transmission all resulting in a radically altered vehicle.
The tester does not simply "test what is presented". If I present a double decker bus running the identity of a Dutton (including vin plates
etc) I would expect the test station to say the test cannot proceed as the vehicle does not correctly match the documented description/identity
Silly example but the point is there.
I know this instance is confused further as the mot test is basically the same however would this vehicle be tested as a quad or as a car? it should
not be tested as a quad as it clearly no longer qualifies as a quad, if as a car then the registration docs. would be wrong. In either case the test
cannot proceed.
Actually it shouldn't get as far as an mot as when you declare the engine change it should flag up at dvla as a change in class from quad to car
and thus the need for iva as a radically altered vehicle and if the engine change is not declared it still cannot be mot tested as the engine numbers
and capacity would clearly not match the registration docs. You may find Dvla abscond from any responsibility for advising you of this by simply
saying its up to you to get it right.
Any mot tester that simply input the details already on the registration documents without checking validity would be negligent although this happens
a lot and is sometimes called "a friendly mot tester".
Having an mot certificate is not the same as having the car legally mot'd. It is clearly possible to misrepresent the vehicle and con the mot
tester.
I would take your time getting the front suspension geometry sorted as comedy bump steer might be ok at 50 mph but not at 100 . I had a customer who
had a few of these for corporate events and they didn't stand up well to being driven hard . As the front lifts it goes into toe out which
isn't a good thing .
This would be presented as a gs moon buggy with an engine swap.
Test class hasn't changed and the only difference I can see is it would fall under different rules for emmisions testing . I'm not obliged
to weigh anything unless its too heavy ffor my equiptment to lift . Any alterations to the vehicle are assessed on their own merits I can't
simply refuse to test it because the engine has changed .
If I was presented with a double decker bus with a bed and sink fitted I would test it as a class 4
If this came in and the vin matched the data on the device coming back as a class 4 test I don't see a reason to refuse to test regardless of the
outcome . Where the wheels fall off is if the tester enters the new engine capacity which would then involve dvla or Vosa .
Interesting question and not one id make a decision on without asking my area office about
[Edited on 30/6/13 by froggy]
My mot tester will test it as a standard unmodified vehicle, If anything happens ill just say I modified it after the mot, simple. Can we concentrate on the build and not whether it is or isn't road legal !! Thankyou
I understand its an interesting build and you want to discuss the technicalities, its one I would love to see and I hope it turns out well, it should
be a blast. The problem is that your post includes the term road legal so this has inevitably become a major point of the discussion particularly as
the fact is it wont be road legal (without an IVA).
Having done with that now (waiting for the grand prix to start) please make sure you post some updates including pics as you progress.
No worries I just wanted to build something a bit different, it's just a fun project for me and if I can get it legal all the better. Ill try to put pics up again soon.
Ive only just read this thread from start to finish and is it just me who finds the attitude to the legalities appalling
Phrases like it'll be fine and you lot worry too much quite frankly are something I would expect from a child. If your staying off road then
these projects are top fun I've even built one myself from scratch, but blindly putting one on the road is a different kettle of fish. Imagine if
you were involved in an accident and the other car turned out to be incorrectly registered, incorrectly tested, voided insurance etc I'm pretty
sure you wouldnt be very happy.
Accept the fact if you want road legal you will HAVE to iva it.
It's no different to me slapping a number plate of a kitcar I cut up on the buggy and declaring it road-legal.
quote:
Originally posted by PhillipM
It's no different to me slapping a number plate of a kitcar I cut up on the buggy and declaring it road-legal.
God ill get it iva tested then there u lot happy now ! Bloody hell
quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
quote:
Originally posted by PhillipM
It's no different to me slapping a number plate of a kitcar I cut up on the buggy and declaring it road-legal.
And your point is? ?
quote:
Originally posted by Dixyman666
God ill get it iva tested then there u lot happy now ! Bloody hell
The police are retarded down here they won't know where the engine is let alone what it is ! Lol
That may be, and you'd get away with it every time but the last time
Bare in mind dixyman most on here who have built their own cars have had to go through a long and sometimes stressful SVA or IVA process to make sure
they were legal, they don't do it for fun but they know legally they have to so as to protect themselves and others if things went bad.
They are also the last folk who are going to accept someone saying the process is irrelevant and so don't be surprised if you get a lot of
complaints on this site.
It does sound a great fun machine for offroad, not sure it is really suitable on the road and in a crash I suspect it would turn into a tangled mess.