Hi guys,

Anyone know if the fog, main bram etc tell tales are OK to be the light on the switch that operates the function or does it have to be a separate light?


Cheers Andy

My rear fog (rocker) switch has a light built in. The main beam, indicator, oil, and ignition are separate lights on the dash and were ok for the test. Yet to build in a warning lamp for my grandson swiping my toffees! lol.

AFAIK... Tell-tale on the dash or on the switch is OK, as long as they can be seen from the driving position (reasonable movment of the driver/wheel/controls to view is permitted). They must be clearly marked. The brake fluid level warning light must have the (correct) symbol on the illuminated surface. The rest can be beside the switch/tell-tale.

cheers guys

Thinking about it, i know it sounds stupid, but are you allowed more than 1 telltale for each item, so maybe for main beam, the switch and an LED would light together?

With the fog light don't forget that now it must extinguish when you turn the headlamps off and not come back on without a further operation of the on switch for IVA

The main beam tell tale, usually blue, goes off when you dip your headlights.
This would normally be operated by a stalk on the column, so almost impossible to have the warning light on the switch.
Therefore I would say that you must have a separate main beam tell tale on the dash and not on the switch.
The same will apply to indicators.

Side lights, and therefore dip, will normally be wired to the gauge illumination so these become the tell tale.


I think that makes sense.

Paul G

So does that mean if you turn on the fogs with the headlights, and then turn the headlights off, the fog light switch has to unlatch somehow?
If that's the case, how are people generally doing this?
I do have the escort switchgear which I think might satisfy that but wasn't actually planning to use it....

That's right, not sure how the electrikery works but its something to do with a non latching relay, CBS sell one. I used my MX5 wiring loom and it already did it so mine was not a problem

From the IVA manual
Rear fog lamps;
1.
They must be operational
2.
The correct number must be fitted to the vehicle (Table 1)
3.
They must only emit a red light
4.
The rear fog lamp(s) must only illuminate when dipped beam, main beam or front fog lamps are lit (See Notes 3 & 4)
5.
They must be positioned correctly to meet
a.
the positional requirements of Table 1
b.
the angles of visibility requirements of Table 1
6.
Must be fitted with an operational “tell-tale” lamp (non-flashing) visible from the driving position
7.
Either the switch or tell tale must clearly indicate that operation relates to the Rear Fog lights (see Note 1).
8.
Must not be operated by a brake control
9.
Fitted so that the reflector is facing squarely to the rear
10.
An optional rear fog lamp must form a matched pair with the obligatory lamp

11. An optional rear fog lamp must only operate with the obligatory rear fog lamp
12.
All rear fog lamps must display an “e” or “E” mark with a “B” or “F” (see note 2)

[Edited on 13/10/16 by ianhurley20]

Note 3: front fog lamps may be illuminated with the side lamps only.
Note 4: Either of the following applies:
1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s) must then remain off until deliberately switched on again or,
2) An audible warning, additional to the mandatory tell-tale light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the ignition key is withdrawn and the driver's door is opened, whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog lamp switch is in the "on" position.

[Edited on 13/10/16 by ianhurley20]

I thought that this had been removed but looks like its been reinstated again. Mine only come on with the Main/dip beam and the use of a switch. Anyone have a wiring diagram of how to make it only come on when pressed again, will also need to be able to switch it off without having to switch all the lights off again.

Rear fog switching logic. Mmmmm,

When I passed my IVA a year last April, the rules were in place but as mine was wired up with the 'Sierra' wiring no questions were asked and it passed with no comment.

I think a call to the test centre would answer any questions about whether it was absolutely required for our vehicles.

I think the suppliers are jumping on the 'you must have this' bandwagon and raising the price of 'locost' building.

As our cars are using old fashioned ignition and light control switches, I think they fall into the old rules.

Just my understanding of the rules, might be wrong though in a big way.

I think it comes down to how you read this line:
4. The rear fog lamp(s) must only illuminate when dipped beam, main beam or front fog lamps are lit (see alternatives in Notes 3 and 4).

The way I read it was that the alternatives in notes 3 and 4 are for if the rear fogs will illuminate on your side lights only.

Note 4: Either of the following scenarios will also be considered acceptable:
- The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s) must then remain off until deliberately switched on again or,
- An audible warning, additional to the mandatory telltale light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the ignition key is withdrawn and the driver's door is opened, whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog lamp switch is in the "on" position.


So to clarify, my interpretation is that if you've wired it so they only come on on dipped or main beam you can get away with a normal latching switch and tell tale.

[Edited on 13/10/16 by Badger_McLetcher]

Well not exactly, it means that the fog light must not come back on when turning on dipped beam, otherwise you need a buzzer or similar if you leave the fogs on and turn off the ignition.
Anyone know how to wire up a buzzer on ignition off?

My car passed IVA on 3rd October this year and the fog light operation was tested, headlights on, fog on, now turn off your heads etc, thankfully I had seen another IVA a few weeks before and was ready for the procedure

quote:

---

Originally posted by pekwah1
Well not exactly, it means that the fog light must not come back on when turning on dipped beam, otherwise you need a buzzer or similar if you leave the fogs on and turn off the ignition.
Anyone know how to wire up a buzzer on ignition off?

---

Thanks for this, i will need to digest a bit more i think, but sounds similar to another solution i've found which is to use a 5 pin relay and use the normally closed side for the buzzer.

Maybe that's basically the same as you've just suggested, but i'm not clever enough to know that

No problem, could well be the same! A five pin relay would be what I meant by a change over relay. If your solution is different please share it. I'm planning my loom at the moment and interested in simple rugged solutions!

[Edited on 14/10/16 by WesBrooks]

i took a screenshot of a diagram on my ipad, i'll post it up when i get back home!

This is what I found...