ok well my first car is sorted for a year im going on my mums landy insurance paying the difference to my parents and not paying maintenance petrol tax etc so im saving alot of money but not building a years no claims but its ok

so basically as soon as i get a job since im fairly used to not going out too often because i was saving for a car ill have a fair bit of disposeable income well all my wages ....


the question is do i save for a starter or duluxe kit from one of the kit manufacturers or do i build one myself having never mig welded before all ive done is some braising at school ...


my dad is a process metalurgist and knows all the theory of welding and what it should sound / look like but hasnt had much practice in the last 5 years


also the garage situation i have a double garage at home but its full of pooltable and tablefootball table and dart board and sofa and stereo so i cant work there ... i have acess to my aunties single councill garage and a landrover to move equipment between when i need to use it so that could be useable its a fairly wide one wider then average (its on the end and they built it too long bu didnt realise till it came to the last one and had to order an extra wide door and its long enough for a vauxhall carlton and a small offroad buggy so i should have space.


but the question is should i attempt a complete self build would most liekly be + 442 if i do because im pretty big


i know that £250 wont do it more like £2500 with ALOT of good bargains and more like £4000 for a good example with some nice extras


but im not sure what to do

quote:

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so basically as soon as i get a job since im fairly used to not going out too often because i was saving for a car ill have a fair bit of disposeable income well all my wages ....

---

Sell this lot

pooltable
tablefootball table
dart board
sofa
stereo
landrover
vauxhall carlton
small offroad buggy

Plus your savings should give you a financial kickstart to buy a kit, and you'll clear the garage at home at the same time

ATB

Simon

y not look a buying a part build? £2500 is very low me thinks, try 5-6 for a decent looking good performance motor

Alex

if you have never welded before, just buy a chassis and save your time for reconditioning old parts.

Some of those comments are a little harsh chaps!

As Alex has said, if you can get hold of a part built project, you can adapt it to suit. If not, why not try building your own? You'll save some money, and learn some valuable skills.

Good luck whatever route you choose.

quote:

---

also the garage situation i have a double garage at home but its full of pooltable and tablefootball table and dart board and sofa and stereo so i cant work there ...

---

Build one from scratch

You will then have your whole life to use the skills you will learn in the process.

Oh and yes get rid of all that tat that seems to be cluttering up the build space

Mick

ask mummy to buy you one !

have a go at building one your self !
IF THAT FAILS THEN THERES PLENTY OF STARTED KIT TO BUY
but you will get more joy when it finished
at least you can say i built all of that !
even when its bent laying in a ditch !

[Edited on 6/1/06 by ch1ll1]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Messenjah
ok well my first car is sorted for a year im going on my mums landy insurance paying the difference to my parents and not paying maintenance petrol tax etc so im saving alot of money but not building a years no claims but its ok

---

firstly the landy sees alot of mud and offroad and alot of work as a workhorse because we are rebuilding an old cottage in ireland ourselves and use it to drive over there and cart building materials too and from the house which happens to e 1mile from the closest road and on top of a pete bog so ner also we do alot of pay and play days at devils pit and quite alot of greenlaning

so if you can fit 8 bags of cement 10 bags of sand a wheelbarrow and 6 ppl into an sj40 and then tow a trailer with 75 concrete blocks "9 cavity blocks then ill aplaud you


as for the spoilt brat comment thats very harsh imho

let me explain the stuff in the garage

the pool table was bought by me and my older brother from money we saved for a year from our paper rounds as a present for my dad the dart board was free because the rugby club ordered one and got two and my dad was the mini and youth chairman and the club chairman already had one

the table football table was a present for me and both my brothers last christmas and the sofa i bought for when i have mates round again from money that i earned doing my paper round

and the beer fridge was a present form me and my mum to my dad she bought the fridge i stocked it with beer

so be nice

as for getting a corsa well i think i covered what we need the landy for but i suppose dad might consider swapping his jag for one .... NOT

so now that ive justified myself hopefully ill get some more helpfull suggestions


and thanks to the guys who have made sensible suggestions

"What dont you feel that you should contribute something towards your upkeep. "

well i did but my mum said i shouldnt have to because my brother never did and theyre paying his way thru uni atm and since both my parents work i am quite often the one at home doing the ironing and washing a looking after my younger brother and doing most of the tidying and washing up so ner

Get yourself on to a welding course , at least you will learn how to do a decent weld. Start saving so you can buy a decent welder (the best you can afford ) Power in the council garage will be a problem so could you weld up chassis at home on the drive? possibly put onto trailer for shifting to garage for storage? Once the chassis is finished perhaps a small generator for power at garage for lights etc. Remember if you do build from scratch the extra cost of equipment but you will probably need a welder for brackets etc anyhow .

on top of a pete bog so ner. I hope you mean a peat bog . This is usually a protected environment not somewhere to drive over with building materials. Move the table for a while then transfer stuff to your aunt's lockup. You'll be able to build a chassis sideways on in your two car garage and it will store on it's side when it's tacked together.

why dont you stick all the junk in your garage in your aunts?
Then you are close to your build and have power and space.
Have a bash at making it yourself, thats what I did.
Its not that hard and you feel good having done it.
Practice first though as 'the first one is the worst one' etc.
Folks seem to be giving you a hard time for some reason, I dont see the point in that. Just envy I guess.

those magical words ill earn money but I wont spend it much

trust me as soon as you earn money it goes like that

as soon as i started earning real good money I still spend it but I look back at the end of the month and think WTF have I spent all that on.. Ive said ill try harder each month but it never changes

I'd endorse the 'make it all yourself' policy! If nothing else, you'll have some useful tools and a heap of new skills (you can repair your Landy when you bend it! )

Save up and buy your parents a big shed - then fill it with your garage junk!

David

Indeed i vote fro scratch build, learn the skills then as was was said before, youve got them for the rest of your life.

if i spent the money on a welding course so i knew what i was doing and then had nothing to do say in a holiday so i could really get down to it and all the box section was cut to length ready to be welded how long would it take to weld the entire chassis ?? roughly

not taking the wee here.

what do you know about cars repair wise?
do you know how they run and work,
what tools do you have?
do you know the basics about a car?

this all counts, cause if you know a little about cars then it will help and may poss make it a little quicker for you
if you dont then it will take you alot longer to build it. in fact alot longer !
how much time do you have to spend on it.
as it wont build it self, ask everybody on here they will tell you
its not a 2 min job!, how long do you think it will take you to build it?
well double it and you might be near!
and at the end of the day ITS YOUR LIFE AT RISK EVERY CORNER YOU CUT !!
but like CaLviNx says buy the book it will help you out alot!

[Edited on 6/1/06 by ch1ll1]

[Edited on 6/1/06 by ch1ll1]

ive had a part time job at a landy garage since i was 14 repaired th elandy with my dad dont clutch changes gearboxc changes exaust fitting engine swaps and making lots of cups of tea started off making tea worked my way up

i tend to spot when somethings not right on te car quicker then my um or dad feeling the difference of even a couple of psi in a flat tyre noticing a slight smell and telling to to stop in the next layby and find it pissing water and took the waterpup off the landy while waiting for the aa man and then fitted a new one at the garage he recovered uss too and we still made the ferry

ive bene interested in cars since i was ickle and changed my first set of spark plugs at 5


i know the basics and a bit more but would like to learn more then i know i also want to do automotive design and engineering at uni hopefully bath

If you dont have a decent garage, and welding experience you would be TOTALLY NUTS to attempt a scratch build.

How would you fancy going outside in the next few months, cutting up steel, welding it, in 2 degrees and rain, while the car is gently rusting. Or, having to drive / walk miles to a garage. You will quickly lose motivation and give up.

You have minimal resources available, so you need to take the least hassle route.

save up your cash, and get an MK indy kit or summat similar.

As your insurance will be ballistic, and you havnt passed your test, there isnt a big rush to start the build tomorrow is there? So spend the next year amassing the cash that allows you to buy something that will scre together fairly easy at about the time you will actually be able to drive and insure it - like at least in a year or twos time.

I cant see you doing this tho as I wouldnt have at your age

If you havnt done so yet, get your dad to take yo to the stoneleigh show, and take a look at some of the kits on offer. Look at something like the MK chasis, and ask yourself seriously ' could i do something as nice as that with the resources I have'. Save your money, and get something good when you can buy in something.

In your situation, its going to be far too tempting to go out with your mates than hack bits of metal in the garden or your aunties garage when its -5c outside.....

do you REALLY HAVE TO BUILD a car yourself..... if you want a seven replica, you can probably get a decent one for 3 grand or so...... save up and it could be yours this time next year..... without the hassle of building one.

atb

steve

quote:

---

Originally posted by Messenjah

ive bene interested in cars since i was ickle and changed my first set of spark plugs at 5

/quote]


I read an article by the daughter of Roahld Dahl once.

In it, she describes how one day, when she was about 14, she really needed to get somewhere. So, she took the family morris minor.

It broke down. So, she called her dad.

He was really pi$$ed.

not cos she had taken the car and driven under age - but that she hadnt known how to fix it





In the book 'danny, champion of the world' by him, the character Danny, describes how his dad wouldnt let him attend school until he knew how to rebuild an engine. If you didnt know how to do that, you were not prepared for learning

strange man



atb

steve

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ch1ll1 - 6/1/06 at 09:01 PM

sounds like your over qualified to build a car!

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Messenjah - 6/1/06 at 09:02 PM

the idea is tho i want to build one and was thinking about a welding course

i get where you are coming form and maybe a kit would be a better option

and yeah you are right there is no rush to start tomorrow at all i am to have it complete whatever route i go down by around may time not next year but the year after which will be about halfway through my year out after a levels and then ill go on a trip round europe in it which is why i want to build rather then buy so i can fix if it breaks on the trip

as at that time id be 19 which gives much more scope for actually being able to afford to insure it lol and then id have it in time for uni lol

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JoelP - 6/1/06 at 09:16 PM

i love driving, but i still think most of the fun is in the fabrication. If you fancy welding, by all means do a course and stick a chassis together. Or as a good way to fill up a few months, why not make a small box trailer? Its good practice and still fun, but you dont have to insure it and risk killing yourself when done! If i were you, id get a nippy normal car, and aim to finish the locost in a few years, maybe by 19, when insurance will be so much easier to bear. If the building is just a hurdle on the way to having a finished car, then i guess you may as well buy a kit! Otherwise, take your time and enjoy it. If you look after any tools you get, they will last ages.

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Messenjah - 6/1/06 at 09:24 PM

o btw im thought i posted on here evidently not im no longer looking for a first car im going on my mums landrover isnurance and paying the difference so that i get some more driving experience and maybe not buying a car till i need one so in my year out when im working

and joel that was the plan to have it finished some time after my 19th lol

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gazza285 - 6/1/06 at 10:09 PM

It's usually more like your 29th going by some of the peolple on here.

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Spyderman - 7/1/06 at 10:53 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Messenjah

i know the basics and a bit more but would like to learn more then i know i also want to do automotive design and engineering at uni hopefully bath

the idea is tho i want to build one and was thinking about a welding course

i get where you are coming form and maybe a kit would be a better option

and yeah you are right there is no rush to start tomorrow at all i am to have it complete whatever route i go down by around may time not next year but the year after which will be about halfway through my year out after a levels and then ill go on a trip round europe in it which is why i want to build rather then buy so i can fix if it breaks on the trip

as at that time id be 19 which gives much more scope for actually being able to afford to insure it lol and then id have it in time for uni lol

---

I hope you are not taking English as one of your A-levels!

My two-penneth!
Clear out the garage, get yourself a MIG welder and play with it!
Then play with it some more until you can cut the welds open and compare them to the examples that can be found on this forum somewhere.
If you can do that then you are equipped to build your own car from scratch! Have fun!

If that seems too daunting then buy a kit!

Good luck!

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steve_gus - 7/1/06 at 11:09 PM

Joel - if most of the fun was in the fabrication...... didnt you scrap your build and buy something in? Bit too much fun then

atb

steve

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rusty nuts - 8/1/06 at 10:27 AM

I'm sure some who have successfully built cars with help from this forum knew less than Messanjah about cars when they started. Others have taken 5years or more and are still not on the road .Whats wrong with helping a youngster to build his dream? Remember we were all young once and we all had to learn.

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JoelP - 8/1/06 at 11:12 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve_gus
Joel - if most of the fun was in the fabrication...... didnt you scrap your build and buy something in? Bit too much fun then

atb

steve

---

ha ha! very funny steve i scrapped it to make space so that a new project could satisfy 70% of me, and bought a finished one to satisfy the remaining 30% . The first car was a learning curve, and wasnt worth finishing. And yup, im having great fun with the trailer at the minute

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caber - 8/1/06 at 12:10 PM

Messenjah

Build it yourself! I started with fixing Land Rovers and going on a welding course that taught me a lot about arc welding and a bit about gas I have had gas welding kit for years mainly used on Landies and bought cheap TIG kit for the locost. The main tub of the chassais was completed including cutting between Boxing day and 3 January working everyday satisfaction level very high cost about £100 in steel and £40 in welding gas £20 in grinding disks! It was also a good excuse to avoid over exposure to relatives!

See if you can get on a local technical college NVQ or SVQ course then you have a bit of paper should you ever want to do more welding, it is good fun

Best of luck with the bild

Caber

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Mix - 8/1/06 at 03:31 PM

Steve_gus

Just curious......how did you learn to weld??

Mick

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steve_gus - 8/1/06 at 08:12 PM

I learned to weld as :

1. My father was a time served toolmaker / welder.

2. I worked next door to a company in Wellingborough, Northants, that sold welding stuff (amazingly called Northants Welding) and picked up details from them.

3. got advice from a guy I worked with who was a welder. (In fact my company at that time used to x-ray welds for the gas and oil industry).

Why did I do all this? Cos I had spent a loada money on getting a metro turbo in a nice state, inc a full engine rebuild, when someone hit it up the rear right quarter.

This wrote it off. I bought the wreck and cut off the rear, part of the boot floor, all of the right side. I bought the matching 'quarter' from a contact at work, and then basically trimmed it to suit the missing bits on the car. This wasnt a cut and shut, just an attempt at keeping costs down and not buying a whole boot floor when I just needed 9ins of a corner.

However, none of that means im a decent welder.

So, I spent time over 3 or so years doing the renovation work, during which time I learned to weld bits of car to other bits of car.

It gave me the 'grounding' to think I could attempt a scratch build.



Rustynuts - the speed I build my car at is down to me, and it had no bearing on any advice does it? My car isnt as simple as a 'book' car and is a scratch build. Its going to take some time, (but i didnt think this long)! Perhaps it gives me a little more ability to describe where the pitfalls of getting in too deep may be.... (like having a change of circumstances that had me park the build for 15 months)


I am not trying to dicscourage messnjah, just trying to see the situation as it is.

Perhaps Im reading it wrong, but what I see is.....


Someone living at home wioth parents.
Someone that has no access to a garage and will have to do all the build outdoors. (telling himto get his parents to clear out what seems to be a 'spare room' isnt really viable is it?)
Someone that appears to live life for the moment, and likely wants to spend time with his mates.
Will shortly go to uni. Currently doing GCSEs
Hasnt got much funding.


I have spent 500+ hrs on my overcomplicated car, and I think there is a relationship between time available, motiviation, and resources. The more you take on, the less the chance you will finish.


Its hard enough building in a cramped garage, but for a 17/18 y/o to build in the open, when hes got commitments such as gcse and uni and all the rest, would give him an unpleasant task and heavy workload.

I dont feel inclined to say 'go for the dream' cos the reality is days out in the wet and cold in a race agaisnt time to build the car before it rusts or you run out of motivation.

I think he will have a much greater chance of 'living the dream' if he looks at the resources and time he has, and takes a route that will allow him to get a result without falling foul of a lack of resources.

I would have finished my car yonks ago if I had been more realistic and kept to a simpler build. I know (as im sure most of us do) how much time it takes, all the costs of tools you never thought you needed, etc, etc.

If he gets a kit and a donor, there will be a much greater chance of a result than if he gets a donor and a pile of steel.

Put yourself in Messenjahs situation, and ask if you think a scratch build or a kit build is going to get the biggest chance of a finished car on the road.


Wish you well Messnjah, just trying to tell you not to bite off more than you can chew. If you can convince your parents to clear out the garage, and get your dad and mates to lend a hand (for more than the first 2 weeks!) - then id advise differently.

Take into account that when I stated that half dont do a scratch build a couple weeks back, it was thought that most people on here buy in a kit......




atb

steve




[Edited on 8/1/06 by steve_gus]

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irvined - 8/1/06 at 10:39 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve_gus
If you dont have a decent garage, and welding experience you would be TOTALLY NUTS to attempt a scratch build.

---

A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free.

I built mine in a driveway and a car port with a pants welder with no serious metalworking experience. Its not the best chassis in the world, but its up to sratch and it was good fun and I learnt a lot.

The conditions were not ideal, but as long as you've got a good build board, plenty of patience and a big hammer you'll be fine.

It takes a lot of motiviation to get the chassis finished, but its worth it when its done. I got a real feeling of achievement as it started to take shape. It took about a weekend to get it cut and tacked together. Depending on the duty cycle of the welder it can take a very long time to fully weld up, it took a good few weeks of grafting after work for me to get mine more or less sorted.

At the end of the day you'll need to learn to weld to get your brackets bolted on and to make all the random bits of bobs during the build, its a good skill to have anyway. Don't look at it as a cost saving though, what you will save on not buying a chassis, you will spend on tools, electricity bill etc.

In short, if you want to get finished quicker, buy a good chassis ready made, if you want more fun, lots of blood sweat and tears, (Mainly blood and sweat.) then build it yourself.

HTH


David

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Messenjah - 9/1/06 at 12:00 AM

a levels not gcses i crapped out on them

A , B, B, B, B , B , B , C , C , D


with an extra 5 makrs on each paper tht wud read

A* , A , A , A , A , A, A , B , B , D lol

a bit of revision wouldve done it

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robinbastd - 9/1/06 at 12:05 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Messenjah
a levels not gcses i crapped out on them

A , B, B, B, B , B , B , C , C , D

---

Are you telling us that you took 10 A levels?

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Triton - 9/1/06 at 12:17 AM

Or has the alphabet changed since i was at school?

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Messenjah - 9/1/06 at 12:48 AM

no im telling you that im taking a levels atm and that i took 10 gcses but thats wrong i took 11 i missed out another b

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Simon - 9/1/06 at 01:11 AM

Messenjah,

See my archive pics to see how far you can get in a couple of days.

Preparation is the key.

I'm on the road for under three grand and that INCLUDES insurance/registration/ year of RFL etc etc etc.

Go for it, but remember your priorites - and that ain't the car

ATB

Simon

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SilverFox - 10/1/06 at 05:10 AM

If only I could turn the clock back and be young and enthusiastic without the wisdom that years bring.
From an off-shore perspective, we see so many excellent builds for sale (MK's Tigers, et al, in the mags anywhere from 4K to 6K for a good un , it begs the question why build at a tender age when it will likely cost the same (maybe more).
If one assumes cash flow is the demon, why not stash away a little each week while pursuing academic (or other) youthful interests, until you get say 3K together, and then decide - you could buy, scratch-build or kit-build and probably be further ahaed than many of us whichever way you go.
In the meantime, read a lot and possibly re-draw the entire vehicle to understand it

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steve_gus - 10/1/06 at 01:26 PM

almost exactly what I was saying

atb

steve

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