I have a feeling this'll be a long thread
PS - BEC excellent - car engines for old men who drive slow with one indicator still switched on!
Guys Guys Guys,
I defo wanna 7 esq car, and have seen a few Car Engined and Bike Engined cars i have really liked the look of.
Having never driven either i would like your opinion.
I wanna use the car for weekend blasts, runs of 2-3 hundred miles, and sunny evening fast fun.
What would suit my needs best?
Cheers
2-3 hundred miles!!!!
Forget a Bike engine, definitely car.
Rich.
You have no idea what you've started!
I have a feeling this'll be a long thread
PS - BEC excellent - car engines for old men who drive slow with one indicator still switched on!
you need a ride in both. I dont think the distance is an issue, as i dont find the drone of my BEC to be anywhere near as tiring as people say.
Where abouts are you? And do you plan on doing any trackwork, and whilst im at it, what sort of money do plan on spending on the engine?
sorry CEC guys but 12500rpm n flame spiting exhaust will always be music too my ears, just makes a mess of the passengers eye brows.......
BEC every time for me.
Largely depends on what appeals to you more - BECs are high-revving, screaming beast, usually requiring you to get out and push to back into a parking
spot. CECs are more sophisticated, also wonderfully fast (certainly faster-accelerating than any other car you're likely to find for under $1
million), and probably longer-lived. The BEC guys will probably jump all over me on this post, but take any engine, double the weight it has to move
(and double the strain on its trans, only designed to move half the weight), and it simply won't live as long as it should. On the other hand,
take a free-revving twin-cam motor, put it in a car that weighs HALF as much as it was designed to be in (ditto the transmission), and you've got
breathtaking performance and a long life. IMHO.
Performance wise, to get a car engine to be anywhere near as fast as a BEC (and million dollar super cars as well!), you need to put a lot of cash
into it to tune them up (they're still quick though).
BEC with a decent engine will be 0-60 in about 4 secs (give or take), and come with a 6 speed sequential 'box as standard. All this for about
£1000 - £1500. Get a car engine and gearbox that beats the performance for that money and I'll be impressed. Reversing's not an issue -
they're light as a feather an really easy to pull around by the roll bar.
Depends what you'll primarily use it for though
Bike engine in a seven every time. If you want to cruise by a TVR 90mph @ 3000rpm as apposed to 9000rpm in a BEC.
A seven should be as light as possible and highly chuckable......I miss my BEC....sob sob
it says a lot when chris mason's s2000 indy was faster up the strip than hellfire. (that's iirc. i'm sure i'll hear about it from
steve if i'm wrong)
chris isn't a millionaire afaik, and didn't spend hundreds of thousands on his car.
but a cec can easily be quicker than a bec. you've just not got to try starting with a pinto.
tom
BIKE ENGINE get mr hellfire on the case!!
The Nissan 200SX engined 1's were even quicker still weren't they?
bike engine for me
hellfire is very quite tonight !
the calm b4 the storm i think !!!
I'd love a car engined car but wouldn't pay more for a slower, heavier engine. An engine that makes the car slower to accelerate and brake
and turn in. and makes the steering heavier.
I'd rather get to 60 2 seconds faster and push the car into a parking space.
chris mason was selling his s2000 engine and ancilliaries for £6k, whereas the IMHO best bike engine (according to malc anyway) is the zx10, which is
more like £1.5k, plus the dry sump to match chris' spec.
And as smart says, the drag strip doesnt reflect cornering and braking.
Turbo'd engines too dont match up to NA in many instances.
BEC all day for me, though the unreliability does admittedly annoy me. That said, im using an 8 year old engine, and its been bodged.
Chris Masons S2000 ran the quarter mile in 12.138 seconds. Our ZX12R ran the distance in 12.523 seconds. Less than 0.4 of a second to save you doing
the maths. 
I have a rough idea how much Chris Masons engine cost and I know that ours was consideraby less. Unfortunately, we never managed to get together on a
trackday, so who knows which would have been quicker and by how much.
Also, again if you look at the results you'll probably find that the overall winner at York was a BEC Other than Chris Masons S2000 and
Pauls SX200 Turbo Nissan, no other CEC's were faster than the BEC's.
In the vast majority of cases, you generally have to spend lots more cash on a CEC to get similar performance to a BEC and then the BEC also has a six
speed sequential box and the soundtrack to go with the performance.
BEC every time. No contest.
Phil
Get a bec. They're lighter, faster, more agile and probably stop slightly better, and are cheaper than a similar speed cec. Oh, and the flame
spitting is always a good thing to have! 
As is the 6 speed sequential box. And the 11,00 rpm red line. And 'forgetting'
to re-calibrate the speedo so it reads up to 180/190 mph.
Need I go on?
Just to add my two pence worth
On a recent track day at Teesside ther were several blow-ups on the day. None was a car engine!!
Up to then I hankered after a BEC but having spent the day there there was not as much performnce difference as I expected. On a bigger track it may
be different though as I was perhaps just more 'on the ede' that the BEC guys.
As a trackday tool I would opt for a BEC ever time. The sound track and sequential box win hands down. For road work though I will stick with the CEC.
I drove to LeMans last year in two 300 mile stints. I wouldn't fancy either the drone or the unreliability of a BEC on that journey.
Admittedly the Pinto needs more power so I a swapping for a Zetec which may then be fettled to improve.
CEC every time. How can BEC's be faster when they spend most of their time with the gearbox in bits!;
David
Most bike engines have 150 - 180 BHP as fitted to cars.
Most 2.0 car engines have 95 - 145 BHP in stock form as taken from the donor and with free flowing exhausts and other thing, can have a little more.
Your 170 BHP zetec may have more power than a basic 1000cc bike but it has more weight and so is isn't quite as fast.
A 170 BHP car engine insallation with megasquirt and a rear wheel drive box will I'm sure cost more than a basic bike install with speedo healer
and carb jets.
Sure, car engines go much higher than 170 BHP but it starts to cost serious money.
The westfield s8 has the same 0-60 time as the westfield megabusa despite having more power because it has more weight. The torque of the rover V8
means it has more difficulty putting the power down without wheelspinning. The revs of the busa are what enables it to keep up. The light weight
high revving nature of the bike engine suits a lightweight car perfectly. Despite the shortcomings of a BEC, it is still the most suited type of
powerplant for a seven.
The ideal engine for a seven would be this: A bike engine with a VTEC or VVT system to give good low down pull as well as the bike engine race cammed
power. It would have a bike clutch but resized to match the weight of a car. It would have a wider range gearbox to allow more comfortable cruising
at speed and would also have a built in reverse. The engine management system would have built in controls for a closed loop cat for SVA.
It wouldn't be difficult for Yamaha or someone to make such an engine. I'm sure that if your business plan had sufficient funds, Mr Yamaha
would make them for you. I bet none of our specialist car companies have the backing to do this though.
The other way to do it would be to start with an S2000 engine. with a 9000 RPM red line, it isn't far off a bike engine in terms of revs and it
already has low down pull. It's a bit heavy, partly due to having a separate transmission and a big heavy clutch. Integrate them into the crank
cases a-la bike engines and you're getting towards the same place.
Your work-a-day car engines are just not good enough. A crossflow won't make enough power. A pinto is too heavy. A highly tuned zetec, duratec
or other modern common 2 litre is too expensive. For reasonable money in a lightweight locost, you can't beat a BEC.
The only thing i'd add is that a carbed pinto is yours for £100 or is free with your donor. you can't get much cheaper than that. If cheap
is what you want, and don't we all, then this is hard to beat. You can't really claim that it is best though.
[Edited on 11-10-2006 by smart51]
also when a crowd of people look at the car what engine mate what engine etcetc
its a car engine no one gives poo
show them MR R1 and there crowding round it!!!!
im building bec cause im a tight c**t and the thing i thought about was cheap road tax and cheap insurance only 1000cc and sequential gearbox +
0-60
I remember well a track day some years back, Evo owner walks over, "WTF is in that ?"
"Just 0.9 of a litre" was the reply......
was his reaction, these sub £1k bean sprout eaters take some lickin.......
quote:
Originally posted by scoey m
im building bec cause im a tight c**t and the thing i thought about was cheap road tax and cheap insurance only 1000cc and sequential gearbox + 0-60
Always a winner that. Out having a play with a cobra once and wlatzed off into the distance. Had to stop for fuel a few (~8) miles down the road, and
thought I'd sit and see if he turned up. He did, after I'd filled up (admittidly only £13! ) and was somewhat annoyed to discover the 1.1
car had beaten his RV8 cobra! Was a most happy bunny that day!
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Not to rain on your bonfire, but have you actually checked you will get cheap insurance?
No mate
Not checked just thought it would work like that + info from other people
DIY Si - 11/10/06 at 06:01 PMIt's not that much. I pay £450 for 3,000 a year with a blackbird engine, and I'm 22. My first ever 7 too!
JoelP - 11/10/06 at 06:50 PMquote:
Originally posted by TangoMan
Just to add my two pence worth
On a recent track day at Teesside ther were several blow-ups on the day. None was a car engine!!
Not fair!
Jon Ison - 11/10/06 at 06:54 PMnot too sure about the reliability case either.......
Stock hatch 205, 3 engine rebuilds, now 4 see wanted advert.
Blackbird GT1 zero engine re builds, n the GT1 did several thousand road miles too.
DIY Si - 11/10/06 at 07:35 PMAs long as oiling isn't an issue, bike engines should be better in some ways, as they are designed to be ragged. They are basically race engines when compared to 'normal' car engines, and built to rev.
[Edited on 11/10/06 by DIY Si]
Simon - 11/10/06 at 07:42 PMWon't beat a car engine for relaxed performance (I've seen BEC's at BST, so no need for anyone to tell me about them - they are quite impressive!!). Once I've swapped diffs over in my car, I will benefit from this
mph rpm
30 1056
40 1407
50 1759
60 2111
70 2463
80 2815
90 3167
Nice lazy torque, reasonably economical and a bit of a giggle once blown
ATB
Simon
procomp - 12/10/06 at 02:12 PMHi well after looking at all that bull about the pro's and con's on the engines all i will say is it's more a case of what you put your engine into . As a 90 bhp 1300 x/flow locost book car is quicker round cadwell park than certain bec and S200 powerd cars.
cheers matt
smart51 - 12/10/06 at 02:37 PMquote:
Originally posted by procomp
...a 90 bhp 1300 x/flow locost book car is quicker round cadwell park...
So Matt, your saying that if you take teh crossflow out of your book locost, increasing the power from 90 BHP to 150 and reducing the weight by maybe 50kg, you will make the car slower round cadwell park?
progers - 12/10/06 at 02:40 PMI think you also need to equalise the quality of the drivers for a fair comparison....
DIY Si - 12/10/06 at 04:01 PMI can't believe that I'm afraid. Given the same driver, trying just as hard in both cars, I just can not see how the heavier, lower powered car is ever going to be faster?
t.j. - 12/10/06 at 05:01 PMThere we go!
What are we looking at?
Locost seven = car
how many wheels; 4 = car
driverlicense = car
weight = car
rules SVA= car
Engine has to be ...
MikeRJ - 12/10/06 at 05:39 PMquote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Stock hatch 205, 3 engine rebuilds, now 4 see wanted advert.
To be fair the 205's suffer badly from oil surge unless dry sumped. A friend of mine went through 5 engines after he starting using slicks in his rally 205. Each one had a different (wet) sump arrangement, but only since he has moved to a dry sump has it been (mostly) reliable. Almost 270bhp from a normaly aspirated Mi16 is not be sniffed at though, and it would be a perfect engine for a locost.
Then again he could have bought a brand new ZZR1400 and had decent amount of change for the cost of it.
[Edited on 12/10/06 by MikeRJ]
procomp - 13/10/06 at 07:19 AMHi what i was getting at is that regardless of engine type and bhp is if you put the same package into a project that actualy handels you will have a much quicker oveall car than a car with loads of bhp/revs and no way of using it to any advantage. And was using a 90bhp locost weighing in at 618kg inc driver as an example as that car and S200 powerd car and others were there on the same day.
And yes if you take the 90bhp x/flow out and drop a 155 bhp zetec in it dose go an other 9 seconds a lap quicker. And yes both cars were on road tyres and with a good average driver.
cheers matt
Hellfire - 13/10/06 at 11:29 AMS200 powered car? Should that be S2000?
3GEComponents - 13/10/06 at 12:34 PMIt's something i've been wondering about for ages, and after DiySi bought his BEC and raved about it too i was very nearly tempted to go that route.......but didn't in the end i've gone for an Audi TT lump, with plans to eventually replace the ford box with a Quaife 6 speed, then drop it off at AMD for their stage 6 conversion, that should be about 460bhp!
PS, Thanks Guys for the get well soon e-mails, i'm doing better, if i could just stay awake!!!
mandbsheldon - 13/10/06 at 01:57 PMquote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi well after looking at all that bull about the pro's and con's on the engines all i will say is it's more a case of what you put your engine into . As a 90 bhp 1300 x/flow locost book car is quicker round cadwell park than certain bec and S200 powerd cars.
cheers matt
After seeing your car at Cadwell, I'm suprised it made it round at all
procomp - 13/10/06 at 02:00 PMHi your right iv'e just downgraded the the honda by 1800cc to give you bec blokes a chance
cheers matt
mandbsheldon - 13/10/06 at 02:02 PM
procomp - 13/10/06 at 02:02 PMHi (after seeing your car ect ) I dont understand what you mean explain.
cheers matt
mandbsheldon - 13/10/06 at 05:47 PMHi matt,
Sorry, just my attempt at humer
Leigh
DIY Si - 13/10/06 at 06:11 PM460?!
Hellfire - 14/10/06 at 07:37 AMquote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi what i was getting at is that regardless of engine type and bhp is if you put the same package into a project that actualy handels you will have a much quicker oveall car than a car with loads of bhp/revs and no way of using it to any advantage. And was using a 90bhp locost weighing in at 618kg inc driver as an example as that car and S200 powerd car and others were there on the same day.
And yes if you take the 90bhp x/flow out and drop a 155 bhp zetec in it dose go an other 9 seconds a lap quicker. And yes both cars were on road tyres and with a good average driver.
cheers matt
So what was your fastest lap time around Cadwell in your 618kg locost with 90bhp?
Phil
procomp - 14/10/06 at 09:02 AMHi a time of 1.45.5 in the locost and 1.36.2 in an LA with 155bhp zetec.
cheers matt
procomp - 14/10/06 at 09:13 AMHi so why am i getting email agro for simply saying that regardless of what engine you chose a bigger dissision is what you put it into. As i did not mention Mk or any other manufacturer or even our own product As we only supply race kits and a few to dedicated trackdayers. All though they are perfectly road legal.
cheers matt
smart51 - 14/10/06 at 11:05 AMquote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi so why am i getting email agro for simply saying that regardless of what engine you chose a bigger dissision is what you put it into.
Because you didnt, at least not explicitly. what you seemed to say is that a 90 BHP crossflow is faster than a BEC. The car is of course as significant as the engine and indeed the driver. A good driver in a crossflow locost will always beat a bad driver in a BEC range rover. that isn't what you said though.
procomp - 14/10/06 at 01:58 PMHi i did say bec and S200(S2000). people are getting verry sensative round here despit me trying not to mention any manufacturer or engine type.
I have had an idea to make an extremly light bec it would involve removing the steering rack and wheel also posibbly 2/3rds of the chassis thinking about it further i think it might even be posibble to do away with two of the wheels. Whith it being so light i think it should be capable of speeds of upto maybe 180 mph with only 180 bhp. I dont think it would work though as i cant think of a way of getting the reverse to work
cheers matt
(ps for the sensative people that was meant as a joke.)
DIY Si - 14/10/06 at 02:03 PMI think the main problem was just a bit of confusion. I now see what you mean, but origianlly it read as you saying a (your?) locost racer was quicker than a good bec/S2000. Can't say about the others, but I for one see what your on about.
[Edited on 14/10/06 by DIY Si]
procomp - 14/10/06 at 02:09 PMHi thank you. I do somtime think i am going mad and am reading things totaly different to every one else.
cheers matt
NS Dev - 16/10/06 at 11:51 AMWould a few BEC'ers post 1/4 mile times and ACTUAL costs to build their cars.....real costs not billy please.
My VX 16v XE car will have cost me approx £5800 by the time it is on the road, has 200hp, 170lb ft of torque and (as long as my foam seats don't add too much weight ) will weigh around 560kg............ no idea what 1/4 mile will be yet.
MikeRJ - 16/10/06 at 12:04 PMquote:
Originally posted by NS Devno idea what 1/4 mile will be yet.
I'd estimate approximately "Damn quick"
NS Dev - 16/10/06 at 12:10 PMquote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi thank you. I do somtime think i am going mad and am reading things totaly different to every one else.
cheers matt
Nah, you've just been racing for a long time, so you're familiar with the strange phenomenons known as "hype" and "billy bull5hit" , and how once they get out of control any touch with reality is lost.
Nothing like a good race or two to keep those two things in check!!!
procomp - 16/10/06 at 02:00 PM
JoelP - 16/10/06 at 03:03 PMlocost zx9, bought as a CEC for £2k and converted to BEC for another grand. (engine 300 exhaust 400 ish and prop 200, 100 in shite).
never done a timed 1/4, but alan's car is a similar spec, he did a 13.2 at york dragway.
Coose - 17/10/06 at 08:56 AMquote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by TangoMan
Just to add my two pence worth
On a recent track day at Teesside ther were several blow-ups on the day. None was a car engine!!
Not fair!
2nd'd! Joel's was a broken weld, Mark's 'Blade blow-up (the ONLY blow-up) was a '97 engine out of a crash-damaged bike that'd done several thousand trouble-free miles! The motor was out in two hours (it woulda been one if lunch hadn't have been in the way) and he got another complete motor for £450! Albeit that motor is still sat on his garage floor, but a steady afternoon would get it all back together and going again!
BEC every time.....
zxrlocost - 17/10/06 at 11:03 AMtheres some good car engines about
theres fantastic bike engines about
one things for sure having owned in the last 5 years a certain amount of supercars and the R1 indy
nothing can beat the buzz of the 13,000rpm and a paddle shift with 130db of micron by my ears
Hellfire - 17/10/06 at 11:57 AMquote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Would a few BEC'ers post 1/4 mile times and ACTUAL costs to build their cars.....real costs not billy please.
My VX 16v XE car will have cost me approx £5800 by the time it is on the road, has 200hp, 170lb ft of torque and (as long as my foam seats don't add too much weight ) will weigh around 560kg............ no idea what 1/4 mile will be yet.
12.5 Second quarter mile at York Raceway. Actual cost is a difficult one though cos the second Indy was built using some parts from the first.
With regards to lap times, I've seen Indys lapping at Cadwell in the high 1:30's / low 1:40's on trackdays. Pretty good times I think for non-racers who've only done a few trackdays there
Phil
marc n - 19/10/06 at 07:24 AMwell ive been waiting to post on here to give news of a bike powered cars reliabilty until one of our cstomers completed his journey
just had word he has arrived safe and sound in lisbon
never driven a bike engined car before
he left here on monday morning at 10 am got to porstmouth at 4-30 after a couple of stops during heavy traffic ( only used £45 of fuel at 70mph ) set sail at 8 pm ferry crossing took 1 and a half days across sea then drove 900 km through spain and reached portugal last night at 8pm safe and sound
the ironic thing is the weather here was great when he left and as soon as he reached spain and portugal it threw it down and had heavy winds causing him to stop for two hours
all looks good for the potential mnr owners trip to portugal next year stopping at estoril circuit for some fun
reliability wise the bike engines only have one real achillies heel and thats the clutch although this is normally a problem for a newbie who just isnt used to it and besides takes ten fifteen mins to change and costs about £80
i say go for the bike engine
i have driven a lot of quick cars in my relatively young years both on and off the circuit and pound for pound you will not beat the performance and agility of a bec over a car engined car without spending serious cash
best regards
marc
procomp - 19/10/06 at 08:48 AMHi i am pretty shure that the original poster of this question has been and brought himself a verry nice 220bhp vx westfield and verrrry nice it is too.
cheers matt
Ps that just leaves the debate of the good old bec V cec to continue
NS Dev - 19/10/06 at 08:52 AMHere's an interesting thread that I read.................... only one CEC and a whole lot of BEC's............ how on earth did the CEC manage to win this one???
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=53569
iank - 19/10/06 at 09:13 AMquote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Here's an interesting thread that I read.................... only one CEC and a whole lot of BEC's............ how on earth did the CEC manage to win this one???
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=53569
*cough* we conservatively guess we're giving him about a 80-100Bhp advantage. *cough*
p.s. the whole BEC vs CEC argument is getting pretty boring, and seems to actually be generating some bad blood this time around. Which is sad.
IT'S POINTLESS ARGUING it really doesn't matter! Unless it's a pinto it's going to be FASTER than you can ever use it on the road, if it is a pinto it's still going to be faster that 90% of tintops.
The "my engine's better than your engine" nonsense should be left with the 12 year olds playing top trumps.
All IMO
Jon Ison - 19/10/06 at 09:23 AMquote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Here's an interesting thread that I read.................... only one CEC and a whole lot of BEC's............ how on earth did the CEC manage to win this one???
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=53569
*cough* we conservatively guess we're giving him about a 80-100Bhp advantage. *cough*
p.s. the whole BEC vs CEC argument is getting pretty boring, and seems to actually be generating some bad blood this time around. Which is sad.
IT'S POINTLESS ARGUING it really doesn't matter! Unless it's a pinto it's going to be FASTER than you can ever use it on the road, if it is a pinto it's still going to be faster that 90% of tintops.
The "my engine's better than your engine" nonsense should be left with the 12 year olds playing top trumps.
All IMO
Agree, we are all in the same gang really..........
NS Dev - 19/10/06 at 09:23 AMLOL there's no bad blood from my point of view, it might come over that way but I can assure I'm only winding up!!!
Hellfire, as the biggest bike engine proponent on here I think, can see that I am sure, so i think everybody else must be able to!
I'm just offering the pros of the alternative to BEC.
Lets not forget I will soon be building one myself!!!
JoelP - 19/10/06 at 01:34 PMso assuming that the vauxhall engine would have between 200 and 240bhp, depending on how powerful you guess a blade engine to be (120-140), how much would you expect the engine to cost, and what would it require for that power? Would it be throttle bodies and a new ecu, cams and headwork?! I bet it cost a whole lot more than a blade engine anyway
NS Dev - 19/10/06 at 02:21 PMyea would cost a fair bit more than a std blade engine, but a 200hp vauxhall will be a case of base engine plus ecu and throttle bodies (plus exhaust but you'd need that for the blade too so ignore that)
what does a full blade engine setup cost, approx £1000 I guess including everything needed to run it.
vauxhall is £200 for bare engine (or free if you are clever) then, if you splash out on decent stuff, £600 for the ecu kit and £400 for the throttle bodies, so around £1200, a tad more than the bike engine but a lot more power.
Its horses fo courses but the bike engine on its own does not stack up any better than a car one.
What you DO have to pay for is a gearbox though, which is obviously free with the bike one and rather nifty at that!
Its the gearbox issue that has made me go for a pair of bike engines for my next grasser, as a suitable gearbox to make a car engine competitive in my class 9 is £3000.
The bike engines won't cut the mustard power-wise, but the combination of good gearing, changeable sprocketry, fairly light weight and the flat torque curve of a pair of 1000cc vee-twins I hope will make it competitive.
MikeRJ - 19/10/06 at 04:58 PMquote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
vauxhall is £200 for bare engine (or free if you are clever) then, if you splash out on decent stuff, £600 for the ecu kit and £400 for the throttle bodies, so around £1200, a tad more than the bike engine but a lot more power.
There are locost options of course (Megasquirt, bike TB's) which should reduce the costs at the expense of labour/time.
JoelP - 19/10/06 at 06:05 PMyou could probably get it cheaper with bike carbs and megajolt (is it needed over standard parts?), maybe £600 all in.
Since all engines need an exhaust and a propshaft you can discount them. They also all need airfilters, so that too doesnt count.
My engines cost 400 for the first and 200 for the second - thats a spare, not cos one broke! The sprocket adapter was £50ish. Aside from the sump getting chopped (60 or 70 istr) and a £30 set of clocks, theres nothing besides the bits listed above. Takes me to engine (average £300) plus 150, or £450 all in.
Conservative guess of power to be 120bhp (probably more but no point arguing) and weight should be 450ish. With me in, thats 120/0.53=226bhp/tonne.
Now, assuming the bec engine weighs about 60kgs all in, i bet a 2l vaux plus box will be 150kgs? Correct me if im wrong. To maintain 226bhp per tonne now the weight is 90kgs more, you need 226x0.62bhp, or 140bhp, which is probably about stock for the engine after transmission losses.
Question is, could you buy a standard working vaux engine and gearbox for less than £450? Including any sump work required and a bellhousing etc.
If we go back to a 200bhp version (was that what you quoted the £1200 for?), assuming its still 620kgs with me in it you now have 322bhp/tonne. Assuming we pick another 60kgs bike engine, for example the zx10 (busa and zx12 i believe are 90kgs, which depletes some of the advantage), the bec would have 175 (conservative estimate) and again be 530kgs, with me in it. This would be 175/0.53=330bhp/tonne, again very comparable. The zx10 however would be about 1500 and might need a dry sump (i dont actually know).
Second to last point, though bhp/tonnes are comparable there is then still the proBEC advantage of less weight to turn through corners and stop, versus the proCEC advantage of reliability.
The final point is just to question the follow assumptions, if im wrong please let me know and i can recalculate:
1200 all in for a 200bhp vauxhall
1500 for a zx10
60kgs for a zx10
150kgs for a 2 litre vauxhall engine with box (i suspect this one most!)
Cheers