joe
cct7kitcars opps cctkitcars
just imforming people that we are having to change our company name from CCT7 sports cars to CCT sports cars due to a letter from caterham legal team
cant do any thing theses days can you
joe
cct7kitcars opps cctkitcars
<sigggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh> 
are they asking for a charitable donation for the priveledge also??
So you are saying they have copyright on the number "7" ?
Sound like nutsack to me......maybe just scare tactics...
What are they actually saying? As I would have thought it was very easy to argue this.
This has happened before on the Se7ens list when someone was using the 7 as part of his garage name.... Caterham told him in no uncertain ways to
stop...
Caterham and BMW claim joint ownership of the name 7 / Seven when it comes to cars.
The evidence for this is extremely poor. However, both Caterham and BMW can afford to throw lawyers (and therefore money) at anyone who wishes to
argue the point. Very few individuals would be able to pay for the legal fees incurred, so even though legally they're on a sticky wicket it
doesn't actually matter....
Sucks but it's true...
[Edited on 8/12/06 by BenB]
quote:
Originally posted by cct7kitcars
just imforming people that we are having to change our company name from CCT7 sports cars to CCT sports cars due to a letter from caterham legal team cant do any thing theses days can you
joe
cct7kitcars opps cctkitcars
Stupid arses up there on the hill! Personally I can't see the harm..Jeez!As for copyright etc..my caterham resembles the original Lotus no more
closely than any locost so I can't see the point of all this.....The CCT7 doesn't look particularly like the caterham..so how are you
infrigning...Jeez..they'll be after Coca Cola next to rename 7up!!!
I've heard the story ref a certain garage..again very heavy handed!!
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
........The evidence for this is extremely poor. However, both Caterham and BMW can afford to throw lawyers (and therefore money) at anyone who wishes to argue the point........
From the frontpage of the caterham website
"SEVEN and 7 are registered trade marks of Caterham Car Sales & Coachworks Limited."
So I believe the only real tack (not being a lawyer) is to get the trademarks voided. This is possible, if I remember my IP course you
'can't' trademark dictionary words/numbers. Certainly in the US intel got slapped when it tried to sue based on 386/486. Which is why
they stuck an i on the front of those and changed to Pentium for what would have been the 586.
Unfortunately voiding a trademark requires lots of legal work and going up against some very focused lawyers from BMW and Caterham. So you could do
it, but it would cost 10's to 100's of thousands, for what at the end of the day is minimal payoff.
What was really galling in the Se7ens situation was that the bloke being threatened did loads of work on the Tour7 list- those tours gave quite a few
people a reason to own a Caterham (or at least buy a new one to keep up with the convoy!!)... To punish him for having a garage with the number 7 in
the name seemed ridiculous...
We sorted the situation out in that we all wrote to Mr Nearn saying how narrow-minded he was being in persecuting like this. It ended up with the
blokes garage being given official Caterham approval (ie he became an official dealer)... End of problem!! Not so applicable in this situation
though...
The Caterham lawyers are scarily rabid though... On the Se7ens list there's even a filter in place (at request of the lawyers) so that any time
"Caterham" is typed it gets turned into Badgerum....
In true Spinal Tap style, could you call your car an 8?
calling it a 8 would be confusing.
Lotus 8 was not much of a looker IMO
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/pic.php?imagenum=2&carnum=1496
bear in mind that i believe this garage was acting as an unofficial agent on caterhams behalf - they had no agents within hundreds of miles. They
organised test drives for prospective customers, co-ordinated local owners, where a respected and liked member of seven's lists and due to their
love of the brand opened a garage to serviced the cars.
But ........ i guess doing all this for nothing (ok, the owners had to pay the going rate to get the car serviced) wasn't enough.
ho hum.
(oh, aledgedly - got to keep the lawyers happy)
How about CCT6+1 KIT CARS
how about cct7.1
http://oami.europa.eu/LegalDocs/BoA/1999/en/R0063_1999-3.pdf
makes interesting reading.....
Caterham basically being told that the Figure 7 can't be Trademarked. Might be worth asking the Caterham lawyers for their comments 
If it had fancy features (ie if a special font) or being in the triangle that would be different.
They felt that you couldn't trademark 7 as its a number.
After all, if I make the Ben Mark 1 what do I call the car after Ben Mark 6?
Caterham's appeal in that case was based partially upon the fact that BMW had trademarked "Series 7" and Audi had trademarked
"A7" and "S7"...
Still, it doesn't really matter. It boils down to who's got the biggest lawyers...
I was born on the 7th. Does that mean no more birthdays
At least I'll stay 40 for a long while
Leigh
audi may have trademarked a7 and s7 bt they've only actually built the q7, am I right?
What a bunch of arses. BMW did something very simmilar when they bought the Mini brand, lots of businesses that specialised in the (classic) mini had threatening letters.
So I guess non of you who have said Caterham are wrong would think I was wrong if I started making a car which looked a bit like a Lotus 7 and called
it an Indy or a Vortx or a Panther or a Velocity? Caterham paid money to own the design and name of the 7 - if someone else is using the same name, or
part of it, on a similar product surely they should be able to complain about it. I seem to remember hearing that Caterham have the rights to 7 when
applied to a sports car or similar.
[Edited on 8/12/06 by andyps]
I think you should rename to
Lutos 6.9999999999999 recurring.
I happen to own www.lotusseven.co.uk would they like to sue me too??
change your name to caterhum instead, see if they prefer that!
Ray
quote:
Originally posted by rayward
change your name to caterhum instead, see if they prefer that!
Ray
Surely the term "Seven" has become fairly generic. After all, the magazines use it all the time to describe a Sevenesque car but you
don't see Caterham suing them on them!!
Anyway, just how original was the Lotus 7 in the first place? Two seats, Rear wheel drive, wheel arches etc- that descibes a lot of 50s cars!! The
Lotus 7 was pretty similar to a few cars of the time, certainly as similar as some of the Sevenseque cars are to a Caterham...
What we gonna do next year ?
how the hell can a company trademark the number 7
Surely that is a joke...
Would Cateringham really be SO anal? There are loads of cars out there using '7' in their model names.
What a total bunch of w7a7n7k7e7r7s...
Oops.... I wonīt tell them what my car is registrered as then
We have an official Caterham delare here in sweden
Didnīt Birkin in south africa get sued by Caterham in the 80īs for using the 7 for their cars. But they found out the hard way that Chapman
sold the rights to use the 7/seven to Birkin also.
i would agree that manufacturers should not be able to sell a similar car specifically as a 7 or seven, however they take it too far by trying to stop people using the number at all.
Might be worth dropping a line to The Office of Fair Trading about restrictive practice.
They can copyright the '7 in a triangle' logo but I don't see how they can claim exclusive use of the number on it's own or as
part of a company name.
Yeh cos the people that published my engineering maths textbook would be right in the sh*t.
As would the producers of countdown............
Ed.
I bet they can't copyright the number 7, but can copy the right to use it as a trade mark in association with cars that resemble a 1950's
lotus or a trade in such cars.
If you had a sandwich shop called '7' then they'd have no arguement.
That said, they're a bit letigious and it doesn't make me feel sorry for them.
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Surely the term "Seven" has become fairly generic. After all, the magazines use it all the time to describe a Sevenesque car but you don't see Caterham suing them on them!!
"Ladies and gentlemen...here we are at Cape Canaveral for the latest voyage of the space shuttle Discovery, and we're go for
launch....10...9...8...7 ("WHAT? Whaddya mean we're getting sued?!?!"
...okay, the launch is on hold..."
I thought Austin got there first?
My mate was in a band called CNN, till the lawyers called, then it was XC-NN.
call it a "STILL" after all it's still a 7
I swore twenty years back I would never buy a Caterham because of the attitude of the company.
If you read up on Lotus history interesting bit is wide boy Chapman also sold rights to the Seven design to other companies/individuals, the proceeds
money going into Chunky's back pocket. A big question also exists as to if the rights belonged to Chunky or to one of the Lotus group of
companies. In the wake of the De Lorean affair a judge later remarked that if Chapman had been alive he would have been sent to jail for 10 years for
an "outrageous and massive fraud".
One thing is for sure only Chunky and his sidekick Fred Bushell would ever know.
It seems obvious that you could use other numbers as Chapman/Lotus only sold the 7 to Caterham (irrespective of whether Chapman should/could have
registered the 7 trademark)
Maybe time for a replica lotus 37...
http://georgecushing.net/7Specials.html
A butch manly 7
so what shall i do
Send them a letter asking "Why?"
Phil
It isnt Caterham... Its their Lawyers who smell some business for themselves protecting their clients name.
Personally I cannot see how they can "own" a number.
Lotus 7, Caterham 7, funny little car 7, etc makes sense, they can own a brand / product name.
But to Own a single number... Sounds mad to me. Do I have to pay royalites to Caterhan every time I write the word 7 on a documnet / letter etc?.
Problems is they have more money than you, which how they can "afford" justice.
They would sink your business and take you home.
Best thing is to become a pennyless employee of the company, give it all to the wife, or your kids then let them sue you.
They can sue you, you can plead guilty, but they cant take what you dont have.
or go into voluntary liquidation, then start another new business.
People seem to do this with alarming regularity on TV's Watchdog. It seems a popular thing to do
Good luck. I hate to see the little man done over by the rich companies.
its a shame cause i dont think there cars are any good mine runs rings round them hey they must just not like compertion
I thought that once the the name became the generic term for the style of product (hoover etc), the trademarking on the name lost some of its
protection?
The company name is protected (as in you can be the only hoover vacuume company) as with their logo, but they loose the ability to sue etc of the use
in other names?
I thought i covered this in an Open Uni course on things but could be well wide of the mark.
quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
...
Personally I cannot see how they can "own" a number.
Lotus 7, Caterham 7, funny little car 7, etc makes sense, they can own a brand / product name.
...
Well as I see it, they don't own the number!
In an earlier reply on this thread there was a link, which gave a few pages of an appeal by Catram, for that precise reason. The appeal was
disallowed, for the reason being that you cannot trade mark a numeral or the word 'super' on their own.
On the latest link posted, of the Trade Marks, if you click on the number of most of them, scroll down, it does stipulate that they cannot have the
exclusive right to 'seven', '7' or 'super' on their own, hence the marks they do own are 'Super 7' 'The
Seven' and so on. It also does say that a triangle with 7 inside is a valid trade mark.
This may be a simplistic interpretation of all the jargon I have read so far, and I am not a lawyer, but, using a '7' or 'seven'
without one of Catrams 'models' before it/after it, I would have thought perfectly legitimate...
Any 'legal-eagles' on the site?
Fozzie
well i have 14 days to sort this all out but i could never sort things out in time
I think it is quite likely that Caterham could successfully make a court claim that you were using the number 7 in your name as "passing
off" in which case you would have to change the name, and pay all costs. If your car is superior to the Caterham offering why not call it 8? That
is higher, implying better, than 7. Why do you want to use 7 in your name? Presumably it is to gain credibility based on the reputation of a car which
looks similar which is called 7. Therefore you are probably "passing off". I am not a lawyer, by the way, so may be talking rubbish (not
unusual).
My new company is called KM and we are making a car called the Indy 2 - any objections?
Could always register an opinion by e-mailing sales@caterham.co.uk. We're all potential Caterham customers and things like this make me for one,
less likely to be a customer so they may want to know about it.
Keep it polite
Got it in one Jonte!
Its more accurate a s3 than a catervan as very few changes were ever made. still had a solid axle till a few years ago.
quote:
Originally posted by Jonte
Oops.... I wonīt tell them what my car is registrered as then
We have an official Caterham delare here in sweden
Didnīt Birkin in south africa get sued by Caterham in the 80īs for using the 7 for their cars. But they found out the hard way that Chapman sold the rights to use the 7/seven to Birkin also.