And also would you really want an EEC?!
Ok here's a good one for you.
A friend of mine just told me that he will soon be building an ELECTRIC Porsche 356 replica for a customer of his. The customer has found the motor
and speed controller and recons it will give 100miles on a single charge with the amount of batteries he intends to use, also 0-60 time will be pretty
rapid too, maybe not as quick as the electric Ariel Atom but good never the less.
MK have built an electric Indy but i have never heard of an electric Locost. It has got me thinking that it could be interesting to build such a
vehicle as an alternative to the same old cars.
Anyone have links or ideas on where to get items like motors etc. Also anyone now how you stand on SVA-ing such a vehicle? Would road tax be cheap?
Lots to think about here and research to be done!!
Real men have an engine!
And also would you really want an EEC?!
I've heard of an Electric 6?
Gay Bar!
quote:
And also would you really want an EEC?!
And real trains run on steam...
I've nothing against electric cars except the range and weight of the batteries. Everything else about them is brilliant IMO.
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
quote:
Originally posted by iank
I've nothing against electric cars except the range and weight of the batteries. Everything else about them is brilliant IMO.
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
quote:
Originally posted by Guinness
quote:
Originally posted by iank
I've nothing against electric cars except the range and weight of the batteries. Everything else about them is brilliant IMO.
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
Could you not fit a nice petrol generator to re-charge them as you drive?
Mike
quote:Not true, Batteries are always being developed. Car batteries are much the same as always but are improving with the onset of more and more electric vehicles but who says you have to use car batteries?
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
quote:
Originally posted by donut
quote:Not true, Batteries are always being developed. Car batteries are much the same as always but are improving with the onset of more and more electric vehicles but who says you have to use car batteries?
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
Doesn't the Tesla use mobile phone batteries rather than lead acid stylee.
Mike
I think you mean Li Poly batteris, these are getting better all the time.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
I don't think that's actually true, mobile phones have ensured that battery technology has come a long way in the last 10 years. The
powerpacks that electric cars run on normally consist of a multitude of these type of batteries.
Its also good to hear that people are trying new things and not following the status quo.
I've also been hankering for a scratch build electric for ages Donut, so you are not alone oddly enough also through my RC aircraft.
If you were into electric planes no doubt you'll have used the lithium packs - I've been told these are seeing considerable use in electric
cars nowadays - though obviously it's a serious investment to make, and you need to be incredibly careful with balance etc (sure you've seen
footage of RC aircraft going up with a rather "expressive" bang!)
If I could find the packs cheap enough, I would without doubt have already started on something. Which might tell you a thing about the packs....
definitely not locost.
As it will be a 'locost' project i may look at using normal batteries for now and see if it's possible to get 150+ miles with
reasonable performance, top speed of 70mph would be ok.
And yes i have been at the receiving end of the lipo battery exploding on me in my garage!!! not nice 
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
I think you'll seriously, seriously struggle to get anywhere near your goals using standard car batteries - look at a milk float, they don't
have that massive swath of batteries in the base for ballast... (they are however a good source of parts )
We had an electric vehicle project at school many (many many many) moons ago, a car battery and a half decent motor lasted just long enough to make
sure it was a pain in the backside to push it back to the charging station, and that was a lightweight bike wheel type affair!
It has been done
http://www.electric7.com/
I was careful to say hasn't got significantly better (and my father-in-law was a phd chief battery developer/designer 30 years ago and
went through the problems a couple of years and bottles of red back).
Batteries have improved a little, probably 2 or 3 times better than the batteries of yore. But for context in the same period electric motors are
10's of times , semiconductor controllers 100's of times and computer technology 1000's of times better.
There really isn't a way of improving the energy density of batteries the 50 or so times to make them a practical alternative to petrol/diesel
(say 5 times the range and a 10th the weight). Physics is against you. Thus the interest in hydrogen fuel cells etc. If batteries could be improved
to the levels required they would be spending the research £££ there.
Putting a generator in the car to run an electric motor isn't such a stupid idea as combustion engines can be made to run very efficiently at a
specific rpm. It's the constant changing rpm requirement that means current engine technology has to remain a compromise.
I confidently predict (working in the mobile phone business) that companies using li-ion/li-poly batteries will get really bad press if they ever sell
any quantity as the range will reduce to half advertised in 6months of ownership and fail completely in a year. The first car fire being visible from
10miles away will also cause some comment 
quote:
I confidently predict (working in the mobile phone business) that companies using li-ion/li-poly batteries will get really bad press if they ever sell any quantity as the range will reduce to half advertised in 6months of ownership and fail completely in a year. The first car fire being visible from 10miles away will also cause some comment
How much power would an electric motor need on average?
Just thinking a few batteries for burst, use the motor on the coast down to re-charge the batteries and then a little generator to provide the
'normal' power.
Won't sound great but would a little two stroke diesel generator putting out a few kw work?
(i'm thinking along the lines of the diesel trains that use an electric motor to drive the wheels)
hi there you can buy a relativly good of the shelf eletric power plant by ac propulshone as is fited to an atom you may have seen picks of racing
aganst a ferari.
as for baterys there is presently a lot of reserch in using a combination of large capasiters and batterys in vhecles to store the power from
regenaterive breaking and normall operation
From the www.electric7.com site:
[Note: working with high voltage and batteries is dangerous and can be lethal. Those involved with this project are trained in high voltage safety
and battery safety, and the depth of their involvement depends on their level of engineering expertise. Do not involve yourself in a similar project
unless you are qualified and are aware of the safety precautions that must be taken. Always take appropriate precautions: even training and
expertise does not eliminate the possibility of injury or death.]
Makes you think!! especially with my record of electrics!!
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
I can well believe it can cause death - I just had a look at the prices on AC propulsion, nearly gave me a heart attack!!!
This is another thing to consider....cost! Can it be done simply on a budget but remain safe?
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
honestly - if you don't know what you are doing, with some depth, I'd say no. If you do, yes. I've got at least one friend who nearly
lost their house and life just from a cock up with a RC heli pack - just think what you could do with the sort of packs you are going to need for a
car...
The safest way to do it has to be a pre-prepared solution, which isn't going to be cheap.
Mate, i can't even wire a car battery
Perhaps this is a bad idea
LOL I have the feeling it might be...
IN all seriousness though, if you are a competent around a car, put a bit of effort in on the knowledge-base and take considerable care, there is
nothing majorly complex or difficult. I was utterly clueless when I started with electric RC stuff but can now knock up a few circuits and just double
and triple check everything I do before I even look at a battery sideways.
quote:
Originally posted by gingerprince
I've heard of an Electric 6?
Gay Bar!
could'nt post a link so it's all here, if its all correct,
latest news is the first battries for mobile phones are about two years away,
large scale but still expensive production of nano tubes is already underway,
10th the weight of a lipo and three times the charge, and completly inert, unlike lipos,
Beyond Batteries: Storing Power in a Sheet of Paper
Troy, N.Y. – Researchers at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have developed a new energy storage device that easily could be mistaken for a simple
sheet of black paper.
The nanoengineered battery is lightweight, ultra thin, completely flexible, and geared toward meeting the trickiest design and energy requirements of
tomorrow’s gadgets, implantable medical equipment, and transportation vehicles.
Along with its ability to function in temperatures up to 300 degrees Fahrenheit and down to 100 below zero, the device is completely integrated and
can be printed like paper. The device is also unique in that it can function as both a high-energy battery and a high-power supercapacitor, which are
generally separate components in most electrical systems. Another key feature is the capability to use human blood or sweat to help power the
battery.
Details of the project are outlined in the paper “Flexible Energy Storage Devices Based on Nanocomposite Paper” published Aug. 13 in the Proceedings
of the National Academy of Sciences.
The semblance to paper is no accident: more than 90 percent of the device is made up of cellulose, the same plant cells used in newsprint, loose leaf,
lunch bags, and nearly every other type of paper.
Rensselaer researchers infused this paper with aligned carbon nanotubes, which give the device its black color. The nanotubes act as electrodes and
allow the storage devices to conduct electricity. The device, engineered to function as both a lithium-ion battery and a supercapacitor, can provide
the long, steady power output comparable to a conventional battery, as well as a supercapacitor’s quick burst of high energy.
The device can be rolled, twisted, folded, or cut into any number of shapes with no loss of mechanical integrity or efficiency. The paper batteries
can also be stacked, like a ream of printer paper, to boost the total power output.
“It’s essentially a regular piece of paper, but it’s made in a very intelligent way,” said paper co-author Robert Linhardt, the Ann and John H.
Broadbent Senior Constellation Professor of Biocatalysis and Metabolic Engineering at Rensselaer.
“We’re not putting pieces together – it’s a single, integrated device,” he said. “The components are molecularly attached to each other: the carbon
nanotube print is embedded in the paper, and the electrolyte is soaked into the paper. The end result is a device that looks, feels, and weighs the
same as paper.”
The creation of this unique nanocomposite paper drew from a diverse pool of disciplines, requiring expertise in materials science, energy storage, and
chemistry. Along with Linhardt, authors of the paper include Pulickel M. Ajayan, professor of materials science and engineering, and Omkaram Nalamasu,
professor of chemistry with a joint appointment in materials science and engineering. Senior research specialist Victor Pushparaj, along with
postdoctoral research associates Shaijumon M. Manikoth, Ashavani Kumar, and Saravanababu Murugesan, were co-authors and lead researchers of the
project. Other co-authors include research associate Lijie Ci and Rensselaer Nanotechnology Center Laboratory Manager Robert Vajtai.
The researchers used ionic liquid, essentially a liquid salt, as the battery’s electrolyte. It’s important to note that ionic liquid contains no
water, which means there’s nothing in the batteries to freeze or evaporate. “This lack of water allows the paper energy storage devices to withstand
extreme temperatures,” Kumar said.
Along with use in small handheld electronics, the paper batteries’ light weight could make them ideal for use in automobiles, aircraft, and even
boats. The paper also could be molded into different shapes, such as a car door, which would enable important new engineering innovations.
“Plus, because of the high paper content and lack of toxic chemicals, it’s environmentally safe,” Shaijumon said.
Paper is also extremely biocompatible and these new hybrid battery/supercapcitors have potential as power supplies for devices implanted in the body.
The team printed paper batteries without adding any electrolytes, and demonstrated that naturally occurring electrolytes in human sweat, blood, and
urine can be used to activate the battery device.
“It’s a way to power a small device such as a pacemaker without introducing any harsh chemicals – such as the kind that are typically found in
batteries – into the body,” Pushparaj said.
The materials required to create the paper batteries are inexpensive, Murugesan said, but the team has not yet developed a way to inexpensively mass
produce the devices. The end goal is to print the paper using a roll-to-roll system similar to how newspapers are printed.
“When we get this technology down, we’ll basically have the ability to print batteries and print supercapacitors,” Ajayan said. “We see this as a
technology that’s just right for the current energy market, as well as the electronics industry, which is always looking for smaller, lighter power
sources. Our device could make its way into any number of different applications.”
The team of researchers has already filed a patent protecting the invention. They are now working on ways to boost the efficiency of the batteries and
supercapacitors, and investigating different manufacturing techniques.
"Energy storage is an area that can be addressed by nanomanufacturing technologies and our truly inter-disciplinary collaborative activity that
brings together advances and expertise in nanotechnology, room-temperature ionic liquids, and energy storage devices in a creative way to devise novel
battery and supercapacitor devices," Nalamasu said.
The paper energy storage device project was supported by the New York State Office of Science, Technology, and Academic Research (NYSTAR), as well as
the National Science Foundation (NSF) through the Nanoscale Science and Engineering Center at Rensselaer.
About Rensselaer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, founded in 1824, is the nation’s oldest technological university. The university offers bachelor’s, master’s, and
doctoral degrees in engineering, the sciences, information technology, architecture, management, and the humanities and social sciences. Institute
programs serve undergraduates, graduate students, and working professionals around the world. Rensselaer faculty are known for pre-eminence in
research conducted in a wide range of fields, with particular emphasis in biotechnology, nanotechnology, information technology, and the media arts
and technology. The Institute is well known for its success in the transfer of technology from the laboratory to the marketplace so that new
discoveries and inventions benefit human life, protect the environment, and strengthen economic development.
it exists
http://www.thorr.eu/
All looks rather complicated!
"The simplicity of the car, that doesn’t even uses a gearbox, makes it possible to actually feel all the aspects of the electric drive
train."
A longer dodgem then.
quote:
Originally posted by donut
All looks rather complicated!
This seems to be a good forum for finding out useful stuff about about electric cars, it has a Conversion/kits/DIY section too
Theres a group buy on batteries happening soon as well...
http://www.evforum.net/forums/
The 7 does seem quite well suited to an electric build, since its fialry lightweight and could easily be adapted to take batteries.
Just wondering if going for 2 motors, one for each of the rear wheels makes sense - could do away with the diff then as well as the gearbox = less
losses in the drivetrain. Could have a proper active traction control of each wheel as well then, S'pse youd need 2 controllers though. Or 4,
if anyone fancies 4WD??
As for the "locost" side of things, presumably if you can't afford the nesecery 200kg(ish) of the latest LiPo cells, you could use
200Kg(ish) of lead acids, re-used car betteries even maybe, and have either a slower car with the same range, or a quick car without much range
Which is what sevens are all about isn't it??