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How many van drivers knew this ?
Jon Ison - 22/4/08 at 08:56 PM

Be honest, I confess to been ignorant to it, maybe as been an old duffer I never had to take a LGV test, guess if I had I would know.

So for years I have been breaking the law on roads like the A1, A14, A34, A43 and any other to be honest.

So how many non car derived van drivers on here have been breaking the law and didn't realise ? Own up.

Silly thing is on the A1 etc with fixed speed cameras drive through at 70 no problem, get some tax man sat in a scamera tax collection van and he drops you one on.



Van Drivers ...

Many van drivers get caught out because they do not know the law. Make sure you know the national speed limits that your vehicle is restricted to

If your van has a maximum laden weight (Gross Vehicle Weight) of over 2 tonnes (2020kg) then you are restricted to lower speed limits on single carriageways and dual carriageways.


If your van or goods vehicle has a maximum laden weight (Gross Vehicle Weight) of over 7.5 tonnes (7500kg) you are also restricted to lower speed limits on motorways
Below are some examples of speed limits for vans, however, you should check the Gross Vehicle Weight and “plated” weight of your van/goods vehicle.

Vans

Type of vehicle
Built-up area Single carriageway Dual carriageway Motorway
Transit Type Van 30 50 60 70*
Luton Type Van 30 50 60 70*
Astra Type Van 30 60 70 70

Jon Ison - 22/4/08 at 09:01 PM

And this is the reason.......

Q. Why should vans have lower speed limits than cars when they now have modern advanced braking systems like cars?
A. The main reason for these lower speed limits is that goods vehicles are designed to be able to carry heavier loads and when laden they will tend to take longer to slow down than a car travelling at the same speed.


They will "tend" to take longer to slow down" but apparently not on motorways ???


Must tell VW to get rid of the abs and traction control they fitted.

Paul TigerB6 - 22/4/08 at 09:02 PM

Bet loads think they can do car speeds. I just did my LGV test (Class C so >7.5 ton) befor xmas and they are restricted to 30, 40, 50 and 56 on the same roads. Surprised me that the limits were so low - ie 40 for a truck on what might be a 60mph limit road for a car so dont get quite so fed up at being held up now!!

JoelP - 22/4/08 at 09:04 PM

i thought it was any van 3.5tonnes or over that was limited in speed. Mines 2.8t, i tend to do about 90

Miks15 - 22/4/08 at 09:05 PM

what about some of the big cars? like hummers etc? im prety sure there over 2 tonnes! and id rather be hit by a van than one of them!

jollygreengiant - 22/4/08 at 09:09 PM

Yep I had this argument on a radio phone in show with a chief constable. Asked him why the fixed speed cameras were singling out the car driver because they did not make allowances for the vehicles weights. But then he lied and said they do. If that was the case then they would have to take a photo of every vehicle and then the police would have to examine every photo and asses the weight limit of the vehicle from information held a swansea and then issue tickets appropriately.
I'm sure that some one with money could get these cameras outlawed on the grounds of human rights because they only target a specific group of drivers and make no attempt to up hold the law as it applies to ALL classes of vehicles equally

Jon Ison - 22/4/08 at 09:11 PM

example,

M180 turns into A180, aside from that nothing changes except hard shoulder.

M11, nothing but a duel carriageway for most of its length. ?

A1, A1M ? is the A1M a motorway, starts with an A.

Forever confused.

Mark Allanson - 22/4/08 at 09:13 PM

A prime example of criminal stupidity.

We have a triple track road near us which is twin east and single west and swaps half way through. There is a camera 1/4 mile before the swap which should make things safer.

The net result is all the 7.5 tonners anchor up to drag their speed down fron 60 to 40 while the rest grind down from 80 to 60, all within about 100 yards so they all pass the gatso at legal speeds. The result is total mayhem with regular accidents.

To further complicate the matter, the central track of the triple lane road is shared by both east and west bound traffic.

So with the commercial vehicles slowing to 40 in both outer lanes and the cars slowing to 60 in the central lane while others are doing exactly the same thing in the opposite direction, all the gaps to pull back into the outer lanes are disappearing because the truck are closing up on each other.

Speed kills? No its bloody stupid road designers - and don't get me going on traffic calming!

JoelP - 22/4/08 at 09:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
the other thing is 7.5 toners aren't supposed to use the outside lane of the motorway, but thats something i see every day, and i've never seen a copper pull one for it either, maybe the police don't know all the rules or maybe the paperwork isn't worth the hassle.

Chris


reading a poster in my local van hire place, apparently 3.5 tonners arent meant to use the 3rd lane either!

balidey - 22/4/08 at 09:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Yep I had this argument on a radio phone in show with a chief constable. Asked him why the fixed speed cameras were singling out the car driver because they did not make allowances for the vehicles weights. But then he lied and said they do. If that was the case then they would have to take a photo of every vehicle and then the police would have to examine every photo and asses the weight limit of the vehicle from information held a swansea and then issue tickets appropriately.


I'm afraid its true in some cases. My brother in law was caught in his HGV doing 50mph when he should have been doing 40mph. There was no way the camera could detect he was in an hgv. It turns out that some cameras have their trigger speed set down to 40mph during the early hours of the morning (when its mostly trucks on the road) and they simply discard all the photos of cars and prosecute the truck drivers.

I can't remember who he found this out from, but it went to court. And yes he was fined.

Paul TigerB6 - 22/4/08 at 09:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP

reading a poster in my local van hire place, apparently 3.5 tonners arent meant to use the 3rd lane either!



But its fine for a 52 seater coach to go charging down the 3rd lane at 70mph - figure that one out then for common sense. 52 people on a coach that size are likely to weigh more than 3.5 tonnes (thats total weight - not each before some smartarse says summat )!!

[Edited on 22/4/08 by Paul TigerB6]

Volvorsport - 22/4/08 at 09:38 PM

yeah i did .

Russell - 22/4/08 at 09:42 PM

Saw an article in one of the Sunday papers a while back. Chap driving a Peugeot Expert car derived van (i.e. full of seats and windows - like a people carrier) was done for doing 60 on a single carriageway road. Objected and was told limit for the vehicle is 50 because it is a "van derived car", as opposed to a "car derived van". Fine had to be paid.

Mansfield - 22/4/08 at 09:43 PM

Edit - scrub that previous comment, just realised I am in fact 25Kg heavier than 3500/52.

[Edited on 22/4/08 by Mansfield]

Thinking about it - 22/4/08 at 09:50 PM

Amazing how something as small as a Fiat Doblo 1.9D comes in 10kg over the 2 tonnes on the gross laden weight.

Also an Astra 1.9cdti auto van comes in only 10kg under

MkIndy7 - 22/4/08 at 10:10 PM

Thats bloody heavy then.. I'm sure the Kangoo's something like 1700kg's fully laden max in the handbook

Mine weights about 1480kg with a fair amount of service tools, cordless drill, spanners, spares, nuts n bolts, stilsons etc I checked up because I had a spaight of moving 150kg plus pumps and motors as my van was the easiest to put them in.

Jon Ison - 22/4/08 at 10:11 PM

Where do people carries come into this ?

Whats the average weight, ohhhhhh 7 on board, if they all weight the same as me that's 700kgs to start ??

MkIndy7 - 22/4/08 at 10:25 PM

Yup V.good point and considering there often about the slowest accelerating vehicles there not likely to have the best brakes either.
And there normally just based on a car floor pan and running gear so not particularly designed well for it either compared to a van thats going to be 90% of the time well laden.

Just imagine the weight on 1 towing a trailer as well.

Then again to contridict that i've been in a Vauxhall Zafira Diesel 6 up doing 145mph on the Autobahn!

[Edited on 22/4/08 by MkIndy7]

stuart_g - 22/4/08 at 11:05 PM

I got done for speeding in an Astramax van, which is car derived, seems the police don't know the rules either as I got done in a 30 limit doing 56 (oops!) the code that was put on my license was sp20 for exceeding the speed of the type of vehicle, I couldn't quite work that one out.

les g - 22/4/08 at 11:36 PM

yep
in my works van doing 61 on the a30 expecting to be safe nope i was nicked cuz the van only legal for 50
had too cough £65.00 and take a speed awareness course to avoid the points and yes the q was asked about hummers large 4x4s and if they are over that 2020kg figure they can be nicked as well if the fascists know are feeling mean and know the rules
les g

[Edited on 22/4/08 by les g]

speedyxjs - 23/4/08 at 06:26 AM

One of our drivers got stopped on the A27 a couple of weeks ago for that. We have now put the max speeds in the vans but its hard to get used to

smart51 - 23/4/08 at 07:07 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6

But its fine for a 52 seater coach to go charging down the 3rd lane at 70mph


The bus speed limit on the motorway is 65 MPH and I believe that they aren't allowed to use the outside lane if there are 3 or more lanes.

brynhamlet - 23/4/08 at 07:35 AM

Can someone tell me why the heck trucks are limited to 40 on single carriage roads? Yes I know they take more space to stop, but all that is happening is you get two or more nose to tell and they are impossible to pass. Result frustration and dangerous overtaking

Peteff - 23/4/08 at 09:03 AM

It applies to cars pulling trailers and caravans as well but I've seen no end travelling at illegal speeds and using the outside lane on motorways.

mangogrooveworkshop - 23/4/08 at 11:43 AM

I got busted on the A92 for this very reason in the van. So we dont rush anymore and stick to cruise mode.

As well as a few coworkers have been tugged and fined in the Transits

I love speed :-P - 23/4/08 at 11:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by les g
yes the q was asked about hummers large 4x4s and if they are over that 2020kg figure they can be nicked as well if the fascists know are feeling mean and know the rules
les g

[Edited on 22/4/08 by les g]


That cant be right, because lots of cars such as BMW 7 series, Bentleys etc all have a gross weight over 2020 kgs. And as long as a 4x4 is not classified as a goods vehicle and is not over 3500 kgs surly its classed as a car not a van?

wilkingj - 23/4/08 at 02:07 PM

Also there are lower limits still on Class B and Class C roads for ALL vehicles.

Also applies to vehicles towing as well.

NS Dev - 23/4/08 at 06:34 PM

interesting one!!

No idea the max gross weight on my bmw 7 series, but its 1725kg UNLADEN so its probably over the limit.

I fairly regularly tow 1700kg on the back as well.........

(though I guess then the trailer speed limits apply anyway! )

MkIndy7 - 23/4/08 at 07:32 PM

Hmm by the terminolgy or car derived van etc i'd guess the clasification is in the design?

There's 2 vans that look like the clio.. there's the type thats a clio with the rear 2 windows and the boot panneled over, so i'd guess this is a car derived van?
(like the astra vans which are basically an estate with panneld in windows)

And then the Kangoo which is a van on a cars running gear?

I'd stab a guess at that being the difference? if it is there's a hell of alot of even small white van men that could be in trouble should they start really clamping down.

rusty nuts - 23/4/08 at 08:04 PM

Suspect the reason for the lower limits is because when the laws were made vehicle brakes were not as efficient as they are now and the laws have never been changed?

JoelP - 23/4/08 at 09:15 PM

bugger em, just got to keep your eyes peeled!

Jon Ison - 23/4/08 at 09:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
bugger em, just got to keep your eyes peeled!



I do, hence 72 in what I believed to be a 70, obviously need'd to scrub off more leptons than I thought.



But tell me this, what happens to my van when the A1M becomes the A1 ? How the heck does it know to reduce the efficiency of the brakes ? Is there some sort of GPS system on board I didnt know about ? The law in this case is an absolute Ass.

JoelP - 23/4/08 at 09:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
The law in this case is an absolute Ass.


What change then?!

I passed a cop on the motorway at over 90 tonight, had to stand on the brakes You know he was gutted he'd put the speed gun down!

Schrodinger - 23/4/08 at 10:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Yep I had this argument on a radio phone in show with a chief constable. Asked him why the fixed speed cameras were singling out the car driver because they did not make allowances for the vehicles weights. But then he lied and said they do. If that was the case then they would have to take a photo of every vehicle and then the police would have to examine every photo and asses the weight limit of the vehicle from information held a swansea and then issue tickets appropriately.
I'm sure that some one with money could get these cameras outlawed on the grounds of human rights because they only target a specific group of drivers and make no attempt to up hold the law as it applies to ALL classes of vehicles equally


I understand that SOME of the cameras have height sensors attached so that they can tell if the vehicle is an HGV