My mates got a 1.8 turbo nissan 200sx and its recently started chucking out a bit of white smoke when accelerating.

Any ideas?

David

Turbo oil seals ?

As above turbo seals

It wants to be the next Pope ?.......

I'll get me coat etc...

white could be antifreeze or brake fluid,give it the sniff test and check the relevant fluid levels

hi turbos do not have seals it is a bearing to bearing face and when they wear oil will pass and it will start to smoke hope this helps

I might be wrong (and probably am), but i thought it could be a fuelling issue? As in far too rich under acceleration? Doesnt petrol burn with white smoke too under certain conditions (i know parrafin etc does)?

Its only started recently i think.

Thanks for the suggestions so far

David

I had white smoke on an MGB and it was leaky seal in the brake servo letting brake fluid into the carb side.

Have seen an SX that burnt brake fluid. due to a split seal in servo I think.

quote:

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Originally posted by imp paul
hi turbos do not have seals it is a bearing to bearing face and when they wear oil will pass and it will start to smoke hope this helps

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Another possibility is oil from the intercooler - a little oil always gets through the turbo seals and condenses in the intercooler - over time (about 120 000km) you get a small puddle in the bottom of the intercooler and suddenly one day lots of smoke when accelerating hard - particularly up a hill.

Just drain it out and problem solved.

White smoke is generally water so head gasket or similar

Blue smoke is oil so turbo oil seals or rings.

Grey ish smoke is usually too much fuel so look for air leaks.

I've owned 1x S13 and 1x S14a and tuned both so know these fairly well.

The CA18DET tends to do its big ends but that wouldn't give smoke just a nice rattle

I'd second the idea of it being steam rather than smoke if it's white - should be able to smell the difference. Mayonnaise in the oil would make it a certainty.

My 2p would be on the head gasket.

[Edited on 9/5/07 by iank]

Does he let it tick over for a few seconds before switching off?

Hi guys, rather than going through David all the time I thought it would be easier if I joined to reply myself.

Thanks for the ideas, I would say its not the Head Gasket as there is no power loss, and its not started to knock at all, just smokey. I do let the turbo cool down, but as for the previous owners I dont know. The smoke looks white at some angles and a light blue at others, and another noticeable thing is a bad smell, even just driving normal. Its too old for a CAT as its a 1990 car. Ive attached a couple of pics of the smoke, it sometimes is worse than that if you rev it hard. Thanks for the advice, will check all the turbo and intercooler pipes and all the fluid levels. The oil I used is 5w-30, would putting a thicker oil in make any difference as it only started smoking after I changed the oil & filter?
Nick.



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r257/IMPACT_photos/DSC00269.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r257/IMPACT_photos/DSC00270.jpg

5w30 sounds strange for that engine and is probably a bit thin.

Send the guys as Opieoils an email and ask for their recomendation.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk

They frequent lots of the forums and normally post as "Oilman" but I don't think he's a member on here.

I get all my oil from them, great discounts for club members and fantastic range of knowledge and products.

Guy and Simon are the 2 main guys.

[Edited on 10/5/07 by the_fbi]

Yeah I'd go thicker.

You could be lucky and its just the thinner oil getting past the seals on your turbo.

How many miles has the current one done and is it standard or running more boost / exhaust etc?

If you accelerate hard then back off suddenly you do get a load of smoke?

If so changes are its the turbo.

Best to get a mate to follow as you have to make an awful lot of smoke to be able to see it in your rear view mirror.

Headlights of following cars at night is also a useful diagnostic tool

Ah, that looks blue to me, so it's oil getting burnt.

Since it happened only after an oil change I'd check haynes/nissan manuals to see which oil they recommend.

The engine has done done a huge 176,000 miles, and the turbo was replaced at roughly 100K. You may have hit the nail on the head about the oil being too thin, having done some looking around that thin oil is to be used in very cold conditions, they recommend 20/40 for general conditions. I reckon the guy in the shop got confused! Will give that a try, as the engine runs fine and the turbo powers as it should right into the red line. Just hope it hasnt done the turbo any damage.
Cheers, will change the oil again and see if that cures it.
Nick.

Hi again, I have changed the oil / filter to 10/50 semi synthetic (someone I know at a garage recommended that) driven it for 35miles and its still the same so far. It does chuck out lots if you floor it then suddenly back off, so maybe it is something to do with the turbo. If it was the seals, would you see any loss in power? There dosnt seem to me any, it powered its way pretty quick to *cough cough* 130mph. It is definitely blue smoke, so oil. Some angles it looks white (especially in the rear mirror) but if you look closely its definitely blue.
Nick.

It seems to me as oil....
put a mirror or glass in front of exhaust, if condensate evaporates..... water...
if not.... OIL..
Probably from turbo...
IMHO

Yeah it sounds like the turbo, it will still probably give decent performance enough though oil is getting past. If its just standard then its a Garrett T25 - these are cheap enough to come by (as long as you don't get a duff one). There are lots of variations though, its generally a lot easier to get one from a 200SX than from a different car.

To be honest you might as well give the shaft a wiggle, take the intake piping off (wait til its completely cold!) and grab the turbo shaft. You can forgive a bit of side to side play (as some of this is taken up once you have oil pressure) but if there is much in and out play then its probably boned.

In the manual (you can download it online for free) it will give you the permitted play for both. Really you should hardly be able to move it in and out at all. Anything more than a mm is usually bad.

Same goes if you decide to replace it and want to use a 2nd hand turbo (but also check castings and blade condition etc).

Go on www.sxoc.com/vbb and look at parts for sale for how much T25's go for. Usually sub £100.

Bit of a pain to fit on the S13 though. Especially with the solid oil and water pipes.

You are better replacing at least the oil feed with a flexible pipe as they are know to block on the S13 - leading to - you've guessed it - premature turbo failure.

Hope this helps.

[Edited on 15/5/07 by hobbsy]

Thanks for that, yeah that does help. Will inspect the turbo and pipes later. I do remember seeing quite a bit of oil covering that area. I see what you mean about getting to the turbo, theres hardly any room to move. Its abit annoying as I needed turbo gaskets replacing just after I brought the car in February, and the garage had it for a day and a half to fit them, I wished I had replaced the turbo at the same time now! Oh well thats how it goes with old cars I guess! At least its not my everyday car, thats something I guess. Thanks for the help though, will check the shaft and pipes first then take it from there.
Nick.

Don't worry about it for now unless its using loads of oil. I have seen a lot of smoky examples of these cars and it takes a long time for anything more serious to develop

Yeah I see what you mean as the car still runs and drives ok. Im more worried about causing a smoke screen when driving, the first copper that sees it will guarantee to pull me over, its much worse than any other car on the road! Also people will turn and look for all the wrong reasons, Ive already had a few funny looks from people out walking their dog as I drive passed with a cloud of smoke out the back! Havent got flashed by any other cars yet though! Im thinking of running it through an MOT to see what else needs doing before taking on anything major though.

Just checked the turbo shaft (should really be working, but nevermind!) and to me there dosnt seem excessive play, although its pretty hard to measure it as theres not much room round there. The fins on the turbo spin fine with no friction, from the pic can you see anything wrong with them? There was rather alot of dried on oil round the area, although its just under the filler cap so maybe that is just old oil that was spilled when re-filling. I have included a couple of pics I have taken, as Im not sure what is the lubricating oil passage as the manual says it could be a leak there. Also is there an oil feed going from the intercooler to the turbo? Theres so may pipes and bits its hard to see what is what!
Cheers.

There is no oil feed from the intercooler. The turbo is fed from a pipe from the block ( toward the front) this will either be the original hard pipe or a newer flexible one if its been swapped.. The oil then drains from underneath to the sump.

Yes I see what you mean, its a hard pipe, covered in old oil. If this was blocked am I right in thinking the oil would have nowhere to go but stay in the turbo and be burnt?

I suppose its possible that the drain pipe would be blocked but I very much doubt it. Its quite wide and has gravity on its side, its also below the turbo in a comparitatively open area so it shouldnt be cooked from outside. Best candidate for blockage is the feed pipe as the original is vary narrow which is why people swap them for the braided one.

[Edited on 15/5/07 by smac]

[Edited on 15/5/07 by smac]

Ran a compression test, and all were around 150psi, none were under and all were roughly the same. So I guess that rules out valve stem seals, or head gasket, so I'll try taking off and cleaning the oil feed pipe to the turbo (easier said than done as it looks a nightmare to get to) and see if that makes any difference. If not then its looking likely to be turbo seals. Thanks for the help. Nick.

compression test won't show up stem seals, only rings. The stem seals could still be the issue, but its more likely turbo.

What mileage has the turbo done? They usually need recon or replacement at 120,000 miles tops on these.

Current turbo has done 86K, and have been told their life depends if they have been left to cool after being used hard, and I dont know much about the history so I dont know if it has or not. Also I dont know if the current turbo was a refirbished one or just a replacement second hand one. I'll try the oil feed pipe, then if its still the same run the car for a pre-MOT test before attacking the turbo as its a pretty big job. Knowing my luck, I'll get it running right only for it to fail on something else major! Cheers.
Nick.

Nick, I'm in King's Lynn and run an S13 (300bhp ), give me a shout if you need a hand/advice.
Raz

quote:

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Originally posted by razza987
Nick, I'm in King's Lynn and run an S13 (300bhp ), give me a shout if you need a hand/advice.
Raz

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Had a look at the oil feed pipe, but its such a nightmare to get to (i reckon the Japanese have very small hands!) I think Im gonna run the car for an MOT (its only 3 months before its due anyway) and see what else comes up then decide what to do. Whatever is causing the smoke its not an easy thing to sort out and only working on it on the driveway is not the best idea so I think a garage will get the job if the turbo does need replacing! Cheers for all the help tho, been very helpful.
Nick.

Nick, if you get the bits we should be able to swap the turbos if it comes to it. I'll give you a hand, and sounds like theres another local with a more knowledge of the S13 too

Up to you tho.

David

Yeah cool, cheers. The worst thing is needing to get underneath properly, I guess with axle stands it would be ok. Standard turbos seem reasonably easy to come by so I think I'll put it in for a pre-MOT test and see what else comes up. If it needs welding and bits, I may as well do that all at the same time, or keep an eye out for a complete car and make one good one out of the two! Or break it for bits, cut my losses and buy a yank!!

Can just shove it up on our ramps, should be easy enough to get to then. Will have a look when i get back if you can wait 2 or 3 weeks

Mind you, you know i am all up for the yank tank

David

[Edited on 17/5/07 by flak monkey]

Took the old nissan for a spin down some local backroads and its still smoking just the same, no worse luckily. Someone on a nissan forum suggested putting in a one way valve in the breather from the exhaust cam cover to the turbo intake. What would that do? Any ideas? Nick.

Depending on the way around you fit it it could stop the crankcase gases being taken back through the intake. If its really breathing hard you could be getting smoke because of this.

You probably could determine this by just taking the breather off though.

Ran the old bus in for an MOT earlier - failed on pretty much what I expected really, the odd surprise tho. They said it was a worn turbo causing the smoke and it failed on emissions so Im guessing thats the main cause as it was chucking out oil smoke. It needs lots of welding to the sills, inner wheel arches & suspension mounting area , the rear brakes are still not right, some of the pipes & fuel lines are slightly corroded (although this was only advisory this time) and a lower suspension arm has lots of play in ball joint. But, the main chassis rails and bulk head are still solid, the engine runs as sweet as a nut and its still fun to drive, so is it worth a repair or break for spares? Advice wanted! Cheers.
Nick.

Hey mate, this was up for sale last week, looks like its probably gone now though

Capri

I think the only thing to do is find out how much it'll cost to get it fixed, then make a decision. You'll get most of your cash back breaking it though I should think.

Thats a cool car! Yeah apparently the ball joint shouldnt be too expensive, but the turbo will be best part of 100quid and the receptionist in the garage said its about £400 worth of welding. I may be able to get it cheaper by one of the banger guys, but the people I mentioned it to are not keen on welding road cars. I'll have a word with Sparky (the guy who I got your uprights from) as he runs a garage and might do a deal if I bribe him with free DVD's for a year!! I'll try parkinson's for the ball joint quote I think. Im glad I didnt buy new wheels for it, and probably shouldnt have brought the tailgate, although I should be able to sell that as clean ones are in demand.

Think Im going to try the one-way valve thing on the breather to see if it smokes any less. Ive been told you can get one from a plumber shop, but would it matter what size? Or apparently 2 litre Honda's have them so someone said. Any ideas?