DIY Si
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 11:15 AM |
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Price of a locost vs full kits
Had a random thought this morning. I'm building my car in the true I'm skint and following the book type approach. However, I'm
curious as to how much difference in price there will be between a car like mine and a similar kit from a manufacturer? Hoping to achieve quite a nice
fit/finish on it be the way, but just about everything will be DIY'ed. Oh, and it's an 1800 cvh de dion +44 to the book(ish) with a few
mods and all the chassis strenghening stuff done.
Meant to say, sale price when completed and sva'd.
[Edited on 2/4/06 by DIY Si]
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 06:04 PM |
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Hi,
This might not be the answer you were looking for but I wouldn't be at all surprised if buying a good value kit works out cheaper than building
a Locost from scratch in the traditional manner!! It all depends how you approach things.
Take my situation, I've been building now for over 3 years and have spent over £3000 in that time (probably closer to £3500) and will probably
be closer to £4000 by the time it is ready for SVA later this year. However, as an unfinished project my car is probably not even worth the total
spent on it (ie. negative equity) and will remain this way until it actually passes SVA and is registered at which time the value will hopefully jump
up to at least cover the cost of the bits.
However, the cost of my time spent will never be recovered and this is something like 800 hours or maybe even more. Even at £5 per hour this is
another £4000 !!
If I had bought a kit from someone like MNR then the time to build would be much much shorter and I could be fairly confident that all the bits in the
kit would go together without any major fettling and the fit and finish should be better than a "typical" locost. [ Note there are some
notably high quality Locosts out there so no offence meant...]
I would also, at the end of the build, have a more saleable commodity because it is a branded vehicle rather than just a home-brew.
So, all in all I think you will get better return on investment from a good(!!) kit car and in a shorter overall timeframe. However, most of us are
building our Locosts because we enjoy it and because it is still a relatively exclusive club, we are not trying to make money or create an
investment.
I don't know how much a completed Locost would be because it depends on so many factors but I have heard figures of £5k - £6k talked about
before. I would think that just having an SVA'd and registered vehicle must be worth about £3k as a basis of a "restoration project"
regardless of the quality of the build!
I'm glad I have gone the Locost route this time but next time I will buy a good kit. I'm not trying to put you off because the journey has
been enjoyable but I would expect this sentiment to be quite common.
Cheers,
Craig.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 06:21 PM |
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Mines going to come in at £3000, although I purchased extras such as ali hubs, all new bearings, discs callipers etc, these totalled would be around
£1000.
The finished product will have a lesser retail value than a known kit, probally around £1000 so unless you want to build from scratch the total cost
excluding labour will be the same when sold.
Regards Mark
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DIY Si
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 06:30 PM |
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Should have made things a little clearer so start with. I'm just about to finish welding up my chassis, and have a de dion kit on the way for me
to assemble. You say you've spent £3k so far. What on? I've spent maybe £400 and have a chassis, engine and box and for another £100 will
have a complete rear set up minus shocks. I have no intention of spending more than £1000 building the car. And I do believe it's possible,
since I'm no stranger to srcappies and auto jumbles. I'm not even going to start including time as a cost, since it's time I would
otherwise be spending doing up some old car anyway! I'd rather just build one form scratch. Any thoughts?
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 06:52 PM |
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Hi,
I've not got a complete cost tally to hand but here are a few major items which I can remember off hand:
Seats (Cobra Roadster 7) £300
Harnesses (Sabelt 4 point) £80
Engine (Rover V8) £200
Gearbox for above £140
Coilovers (GTS) £220
7 piece bodywork set (GTS) £500 ish IIRC
Wiring loom (DIY) £250
Lighting set (GTS) £200 ish IIRC
Propshaft (Autoprop UK) £140
Fuel tank (Allyfab) £150
Electronic dash cluster (Acewell) £99
That comes to £2279 if my arithmetic is up to scratch and doesn't count other things like Cortina front uprights, exchange front calipers,
reconditioning kits for the rear calipers, new brake discs and pads all round, 2nd hand wheels, new tyres, steering rack, chassis steel, aluminium
sheeting, purchase of special tools, hiring of extra special tools, MDF building surface, wheel bearings, nuts and bolts, etc etc...
Yes, I could have done it cheaper but I think £1000 will be a very tough target to meet. I think there was a poll on the forum a while back where
everyone was asked what their car had cost them and I think my figures of £3-4k were very common. To build the car for under £1000 will require lots
of enginuity, compromise, patience and a good bit of luck in my opinion but I do sincerely wish you the best of luck.
Cheers,
Craig.
ps. Sorry to be so blunt!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 07:04 PM |
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Iknow it's a hard target to hit, and I realiose I'll probably go over, but not by much. However, the only things on your list that I would
actually be willing to pay what you have (since I'm really tight. But the missus is even more so...) are the harnesses and coilovers. I'll
be doing the panels myself from ali sheet, making a fuel ank, or finding a plastic one if poss, making my seats, or at most buying Triton ones since
he's nice and cheap. (meant in a nice way ) Oh and the tyres may be the thing that pushes me over budget. Most other things I intend
building/making/reconning myself. I really am THAT tight. And poor But damnit it won't stop me!
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 07:22 PM |
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I hear what you are saying and yes my seats were a bit of a luxury but most of the rest was bought because it was cheaper to buy than to make. In
particular, the bodywork which I bought from GTS tuning (which was actually £395 not £500 - sorry) included the nosecone, bonnet, rear wings, front
wings and scuttle and there is no way on this earth I could have made that lot from GRP including making the plugs, molds and parts for £395! I
don't have the skills to make this out of ally although I did make my back panel and side panels from ally no probs.
I could probably have got hold of a lesser engine for nothing or next to nothing but I specifically wanted a V8 and £340 for a good RV8 engine and box
is pretty good.
I could have made a cheaper wiring loom by using salvaged cable but this could have badly impacted reliability and I decided it was a false economy
and bought new wire and connectors. The dash was bought again to save money even though I have all the instruments from the Rover SD1 donor car
because the speedo would not be calibrated for my purpose and it is costly to have it recalibrated. The dash I have has almost everything I need for
SVA purposes and is much cheaper than buying discrete instruments.
The propshaft was an essential (IMHO) purchase on safety grounds as there is no way that I would drive a car with a homemade propshaft. Too many scary
stories out there...
I could have made my own fuel tank from mild steel but having experienced a leaky tank on my old Rover 800 I didn't want to go down that road
again and bought a custom designed ally tank from Allyfab. Well worth the £150 it cost and pressure tested to 5 psi.
Anyway, it might interest you to know that my initial estimate was £2k and 12 months build time and it's now looking like £4k and 40 months.
I'm quite happy and will be doubly so when I get it on the road!!
Cheers,
Craig.
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chrisg
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 07:32 PM |
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"Book" cars can be built for less than a grand, it just takes time.
Cheers
Chris
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 07:48 PM |
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I think it was gusto reconed that all locosts cost 4000 locost units, and a locost unit is a £1 or one hours work, so if you spend £3000, you would
have to work 1000 hours, or if you spend £1000, it would take you 3000 hours.
Mine cost £2200 and took 2 1/2 years at an average of 10 hours a week - seems to work on mine, but my figures exclude SVA and registration costs.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 08:05 PM |
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Mark,
That sounds familiar but I don't think it works for me otherwise it would have taken no time at all !! 
In fairness, I have departed from the "Locost" option's from time to time and have not been working on it much for the last year or
so.
Probably a decent rule of thumb.
Cheers,
Craig.
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Simon
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 08:35 PM |
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My costs as follows:
Bought
Seats (Cobra Roadster 7) £300
Harnesses (OMP 4 point) £80
Engine/Box (Rover V8) £500
Coilovers (GTS) £220
Nosecone £40
Lighting set (RHood) £110
Propshaft (Autoprop UK) £140
Instruments £400
Roll Bar (Caged) £140
Wheels £100
Front wishbones £200 ish
Rest made
All bodywork (and widening nosecone) £150
Chassis steel £130
SVA £150
Retest £35
RFL £170
Insurance £238
Total £3103
Could've been done for less I reckon
ATB
Simon
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DIY Si
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 09:59 PM |
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Simon, you've added costs which I'm not including in the building bill, such as sva tax etc. I will obviously have to pay the damn things
at some point, but hey ho. I will be buying a prop since I don't quite trust myself on that. Fortunately I already have many, many metres of top
quality fibreglass for free, so all I need to make stuff is resin and a mould. And a mate said he'd have a go at a nose cone for free! The
bonnet I can do with relative ease from ally, and the scuttle will be steel so next to nowt for that too. The only things I can see costing more than
I would like are the roll bar/s and tyres. But even those I can get cheap! And my engine only cost £50. Even better, my pair of 40 dell'ortos
cost the silly sum of £20!
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iank
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| posted on 2/4/06 at 11:08 PM |
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Lots of cash goes into stuff that's hard to get from donors and stuff that is only sensible to get new.
For example:
Lights (especially headlights), P-clips, Fluids (adding up engine/gearbox/diff oils, antifreeze, grease(s) gets frightening), fuse box, crimps, SVA
trim, rubber rad hoses, brake hoses, brake pipe, brake pads/shoes, vinyl for the dash, chassis paint, engine recon bits (fanbelts, water pump, spark
plugs) etc. etc.
Most of us will end up buying a kilo or so of nuts and bolts, which while you can re-use scrapper ones most won't be bothered.
Don't forget consumables welder wire, grinder disks, hacksaw blades, knife blades etc. if you are a stickler for adding absolutely
everything.
Most people also buy for value rather than ultimate cheapness since there is so much cr*p around.
Finally almost everyone sticks on some luxuries - seats, steering wheel, instruments, decent exhaust system etc. which add considerably to the final
figure.
Good news is it's possible to build very cheap (though £250 is a fantasy these days - if it was ever really possible without cheating) just
takes longer, more hassle (spending time under a scrapper, arsing around with ebay, car boots...) and involves more compromises on the final
finish.
Good luck.
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AdamR
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| posted on 3/4/06 at 06:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
I'm just about to finish welding up my chassis, and have a de dion kit on the way for me to assemble. You say you've spent £3k so far.
What on? I've spent maybe £400 and have a chassis, engine and box and for another £100 will have a complete rear set up minus shocks.
Does that mean your de-dion kit cost only £100? If so that is a bargain if it includes everything (hub carriers, mounting brackets etc). Mine will be
costing significantly more from GTS. Where did you get it from?
I agree about not including your time in costing of a project. To do so would suggest that if I wasnt building a car during my weekends, I'd be
at work getting paid £x per hour. The reality is that I wouldnt be earning and I'd probably be spending a similar amount of money on something
less constructive.
As for total build costs, I can see mine costing £5000 once one-off costs (welder and various other power tools) are accounted for. My philosophy is
that even if it costs £8000, it will still be good value compared to most other cars of a similar performance.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 3/4/06 at 05:36 PM |
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code:
Does that mean your de-dion kit cost only £100? If so that is a bargain if it includes everything (hub carriers, mounting brackets etc). Mine
will be costing significantly more from GTS. Where did you get it from?
Whilst I'd love to tell you where it's coming from I'm not sure the extraordinarily kind gent in question would approve. And yes, so
far looking, hopefully, at £70! Oh and I already have the hub carriers.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 3/4/06 at 08:39 PM |
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Have just spoken to the more than kind gent in question, and his name is jroberts on here, otherwise known as john. He's offering a de-dion kit
in pieces for you to weld together for the low, low price of a mere £85-£95. That's the cds(50mmx3mm usually) tube bent to shape, hub plates,
hub buckets, tube end attachment thingies and a panhard rod! Not sure if it includes the chassis bracket for the panhard though. I forgot to ask. He
can also do a nice watts linkage for those interested in that. U2U him, he won't bite! Well, he hasn't recently.
[Edited on 3/4/06 by DIY Si]
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Marcus
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| posted on 3/4/06 at 09:00 PM |
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Good luck on the 1000 budget, it can be done. Our first one cost 1500 on the road, but this included SVA, 6 months tax and 1 years insurance.
Second car probably double!!
Marcus
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 3/4/06 at 09:02 PM |
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That's the figure I'm aiming for. How locost was your first one? And what cost the most money? The only major things I have to find are
some working calipers and wheels/tyres. And the wheels might even be scrappy merc jobs yet. Seeing as they fit my hubs an' all.
Just noticed I'm a Senior Builder. Does this mean I now know what I'm doing?
[Edited on 3/4/06 by DIY Si]
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Mix
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| posted on 3/4/06 at 10:13 PM |
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From a slightly different point of view......What value would you attach to being able to say 'I built it myself' rather than 'I
bought the kit'.
Mick
I realise this is a bit of a deviation from the original point but for me the goal is to build the car for my own use and hopefully satisfaction.
I think it's unusual for cars to be sold for more than the cost of construction, (ignoring labour costs).
[Edited on 3/4/06 by Mix]
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Marcus
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| posted on 4/4/06 at 08:07 AM |
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quote:
How locost was your first one? And what cost the most money?
Take a look at our www. Link below.
If you go to costs page, you can see where the money went.
Bear in mind, this is for 2 cars, and one not quite finished (site not been updated for 2 years!!)
Marcus
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 4/4/06 at 04:36 PM |
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Mick, I hear what you're saying and the day I get the MAC will be a very happy one, and the end of lots of hard work. Mainly just curious as
I'm hoping to enjoy the car for a while and then sell it to help fund a bigger/faster/shinier version. This is also a trial version almost, so I
can see if there's anything I would do differently next time. For example, I already know the next one will probably be 6-8" wider than
book, as +4" isn't quite enough for my wide ass. And I may make some of the tubes bigger to increase stiffness.
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