dhutch
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 02:46 PM |
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Lending the car to people?
If you lend your car to a freind, what would be the aggrement should the car be damaged?
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A couple if times i have been in a situation where I could do someone a favor by allowing them to drive my car.
This includes close and or girl freinds borrowing the car to get somewhere when they either dont have one or done currently have access to theres. And
also to slightly less close freinds for use at an autotest event or trackday either because they dont have a car or they would like to try a lap in
mine.
So far, other than once when my mum drove the car, and one person who did a lap of some private ground in the kitcar with my in passenger seat i have
not not let anyone borrow the car but this has as much been because ive not thought of what agreement to come to as part of the loan.
Obviously they would need to be insured, either by being added to my policy or being covered by there own but this is fairly easy.
What concerns me is who would pay or do the work should the car be damaged.
The kitcar is worth around £4000 and is insured fully comp so if they where on my insurence i could just get it professionally repaired and take the
hit on increased premiums or whatever. Or if it was minor, i could do the work and charge parts only? Bodywork could be an expense as the colours not
avilable and its basicaly one-peice. And i love it so i would be less likely to lend it anyway.
The peugoet however is only worth £1000ish and as its only insured TPFT if i had a crash in it i would either repair it myself or if it was bad
enough, break it for parts and sign the remaider over as scrap as i have done once already.
- however if someone else was driving it at the time, again most likly TPFT, what would i do?
- to book it if for profesional repair would most likely be costly and or write it off
- yet for me to do the work on it myself and just charge parts would leave me out of pocket for the time spent?
And ofcause on a trackday nothing is insured anyway...
On one leval im happy to come to an agreement on each case depending on whats actaully happened, but i wouldnt be happy going ahead with the lend
without some form of 'ground rules' previously as its too much money to pottenially loose and expirence shows that when moneys envoled
even good freind can become unreasonable and i wouldnt want things to get sour over a bent car!
Bit of a long post (can you tell im at work and everyone else in the office is on a snow-day) but thoughts welcomed.
Daniel
[Edited on 1/12/2010 by dhutch]
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CRAIGR
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:00 PM |
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Bend it you buy it simple.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:01 PM |
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If you are worried about "agreements" and so on best not to let anybody else drive it.
And I doubt you want to get friends to sign a legal agreement before letting them drive the car.
I drive other peoples cars on my insurance (TPFT), and if I had an accident I guess I would help out re losses. But no way could I fork out £4000, I
would assume there was some kind of cover. Flipside, others drive my cars. If anything happened, I would hope they would be fair and help out, but if
they couldn't (or wouldn't) it is really my hard luck I guess. But I only let people I am happy with drive the car....(including
PCT's and autosolo's!)
Bear in mind an accident's costs are rarely just the repairs. If bad, you can get stiffed for all sorts of costs like recovery/storage and so
on. Many of which may be outside your control.
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carpmart
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:01 PM |
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Bend it you mend it is our principle!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack 
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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LBMEFM
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:02 PM |
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I personally would not lend my car to anyone, particulary if they want to thrash it. I would not also like to borrow someones car as I would feel so
guilty if something happened to it even if it was not my fault. I was once lent an Austin A35 rally car for a classic event and the engine blew up,
have never lived it down even though the owner said the engine was due for a rebuild. If a close relative or family member was really stuck I would
consider it but only if they were fully insured, even then if they wreck your car you would be deprived of it. As for your question "what would
be the arrangement if your car is damaged when on loan" I would suggest that if the damage is small they pay you cash for the repairs, if it
go's to insurance they then pay any excess costs.
[Edited on 1/12/10 by LBMEFM]
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designer
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:02 PM |
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The best way is to not lend.
Everything is OK, until something happens, then it all falls apart.
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nick205
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:06 PM |
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Difficult one really. I always shy away from anything like that where it could get very messy between friends and family if something went wrong.
For the track scenario the only way I can see it working is on the understanding (written/signed preferably) that if they bend it they're liable
for all costs involved in restoring or replacing it.
For the road car scenario at sub £1k value I think you have to consider the risk pretty low and just insist on TPFT cover as you have yourself.
I have friends and relatives who I'd be comfortable lending a car to and others I wouldn't for various reasons, some on ability to drive
and others on ability to pay! My tintop is a company vehicle which precludes other people from driving it - except for my BIL who works with me and
doesn't have a company vehicle and therefore asks persitently to borrow it on the weekend and seems to think it fills itself with fuel!
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thunderace
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:14 PM |
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1 rule
crash it you cash it
(i make it very clear if you get a loan of anything that is mine and it dont come back as i gave it to you i will want a new one )
i hate giving out my tools are they never clean them and i go mental 
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dhutch
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhangerIf you are worried about "agreements" and so on best not to let anybody else drive it.
And I doubt you want to get friends to sign a legal agreement before letting them drive the car.
I under stand there are risks to life and im not planning to get them to sign a legally binding contract or anything like that, but as i say i wouldnt
even want to borrow a car let alone lend it without atleast having a short discussion about what happen should the car be damaged.
I borrowed a trailer and have since also lent out mine, and this was always on the agrement that that bar tyre wear for which beer money was present
as an offset, the trailer was to be returned as it was borrowed. But that is some how simpler due to the nature of trailers typically being cheaper,
more repairable and less time critical.
Daniel
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fesycresy
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:36 PM |
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Anyone can borrow my tin top (company car so I don't give a toss )
A '7' with no traction control, RWD, high power to weight ratio, I can't think of many people I would lend to with the experience to
drive it.
An accident waiting to happen.
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The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:39 PM |
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I would only let two people drive mine on the road, and maybe three or four on a track.
Dad and Brother on the road with me in the car would be fine. Of course they would need to be insured, though probably only third party on their
policies. Either way i know it would get paid for / repaired.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:39 PM |
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If you bend it you mend it.
This is of course still dependant, Id be happy with a scrapyard wing in the right colour and a secondhand arch trim for instance, others would insist
on new.
If someone bent my track car Id be wanting more than just parts, my time building it has no value, but my time in the middle of a track season to do
repairs does.
I guess thats why I almost never hammer other peoples cars and rarely borrow anything I cant afford to replace.
My Build Thread
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fesycresy
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:51 PM |
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Tim C (on here) crashed his mates Elise. I think Tim shelled out £4k to repair it.
You may see a different side to your mates when serious money is involved, even with a legal document.
Not everyone would front up like Tim and sort the car.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:53 PM |
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Anyone who hasn't driven such a thing before will quickly come unstuck.
No go as far as I'm concerned.
Folks who have expereince of 'our' type of car probably would not want to borrow, for all of the reasons mentioned earlier in the
thread.
I was offered a double drive in a fellow Sylva owner's car earlier in the year.
I found it quite difficult to deal with. If it's worth driving, you've got to stand on it to make the experience worthwhile.
If you break it, well that's very tricky. I can't afford to fix someone else's car, far less my own.
I'll drive mine, you drive yours is the best approach. And if you don't have one but want to drive one, then you better start building /
buying.
Nice and simple.
Sheds are different.
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fha772
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 03:57 PM |
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Simple, if you borrow it and crash it, you pay for the repairs, I did when i shunted my sisters Merc ML(although I'm convinced the tw@t in front
slammed is brakes on to put an over inflated claim in).
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6743&start=105
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ashg
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 04:01 PM |
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i have a simple rule for all things like this. dont loan what you cant afford to lose. works for money cars etc etc
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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femster87
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 04:55 PM |
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Always lend my cars to my mated as long as they have insurance. The do the same for me.
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andrew
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 05:33 PM |
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dont lend or borrow anymore, i lent a friend my car and so as not to fall out over fuel i filled it up and just said bring it bac full , anyway i get
a phone call and he says he cant turn ignition off and wantng to know if i knew about it , anyway he carries on his journey and what he did was just
stall it then disconnect battery then to start it he arked it ascross starter motor , he also with messing about let it run down a drive into a wall ,
anyway he brought it back dumped it in my yard saying he would fix it , that was the last i saw of him then to add insult to injury when i put a new
ignition switch on what comes onbut the diesel light not enough in to get to filling station ,, friends who needs em ,,,,oh also with disconecting
battery i lost radio code ad could not find code so had to shell out for replacment code ,, so dont lend anything anymore,,, you soon find out who
your real friends are ,,,,
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austin man
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 05:38 PM |
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funny how many relationships turn sour at the mend it stage, my old chap always said lend a friend lose a friend. Any real friend wouldn't ask
you would offer.
Legally i t would be difficult as they would be covered 3rd party only at best, at worst not insured to drive another car so no cover and you get
shafted by th elaw for allowing them to drive so pick up points and a fine for no insurance,.
Its a minefiels
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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BigLee
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 06:15 PM |
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I let my big brother have a go on my Harley. He promptly dropped it right in front of me on Blackpool prom. £3700 worth of damage. He did the
honourable thing and paid out in full from his own pocket. I felt quite rough about the whole thing. Lesson learnt, don't lend anything to
anyone unless fully insured. He also had my leather jacket on too which suffered some great scuff marks. It makes me look extra tough in the pub!!!
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 06:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by austin man
Any real friend wouldn't ask you would offer.
i like this statement alot
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stevec
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 06:55 PM |
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I have had my car on the road 4 years now and only 2 people have driven it, me and the SVA tester and thats the way it will stay. I would never let
anyone drive it even with me in the other seat.
Steve.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 08:15 PM |
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I agree with those who say dont lend it out - simple as that. Its easy to say they'll pay for any damage - until they end up with a £10k bill if
they write it off............then what happens?? You end up losing a friend over it potentially, they then refuse to pay, and you end up with no legal
rights to pursue them for damages caused. I'd be very wary lending my car for use on the road with full insurance cover - never mind uninsured
on an event / track day!!
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JoelP
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| posted on 1/12/10 at 08:33 PM |
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with my group of friends it was always "the 3 B's". Borrow it, bend it, buy it. Simples. That said, i dont remember anyone
bending anyone elses car, so it never came to that.
We always lent cars between ourselves, and also did the 'friends and family recovery service', so no one ever needed breakdown cover
I let mates drive the CEC when i was in it, but could never ever lend the BEC as its too much of an aquired skill.
I wouldnt let a mate drive off in my kit because there is no reason to let them - with a tin top, people borrow them because they need to get about.
Not so with a kit car.
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ChrisW
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| posted on 2/12/10 at 09:55 AM |
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I've got experience of this. Borrowed a good mate's Mondeo Estate about 2 years ago as I had to move something - can't remember
what - and I didn't have my Audi then. A guy drove straight into the back of me whilst I was stationary at the traffic lights.
Keep in mind my mate paid about £500 for this car, it was already held together with gaffa tape, and was previously a cat D. He used to drive it like
he'd stolen it.
Didn't do much other than putting a big crack in the rear bumper, and even thought I knew he didn't give a toss about the car I still felt
guilty as hell telling him.
Claimed on the third party's insurance, obviously had to tell mine. I was concerned that they'd try to wiggle out of it as I was under
the 'third party extension' but they were good as gold. They said they would write the car off for the second time but in the end I got
them to pay out £350 and we keep the car. Of course, I gave the cash to him. He just stuck gaffa tape over it (matched the rest of the car!) and
pocketed the money.
Great thing was they didn't record the write off, so it didn't need the VIC check, insurance notification, anything. He just got £350 in
his back pocket lending me the car for the afternoon. Result all round really!
Chris
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