scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 06:19 PM |
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Mass-Produced FWD Front Uprights
Does any kit manufacturer use a modified front upright from a mass-produced FWD car on the front of their RWD kit car?
I only ask as I have a FWD reverse-trike itch that I think may need scratched (*) and it would make things a lot easier to use the front-corners of an
established kit.
* until I get bored with it, break-it, and sell the bits to you lot! 
It's Evolution Baby!
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 06:38 PM |
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Quantum did as did Midas, but they took the whole suspension from the donor.
Which is something youcould do as well
[Edited on 27/8/14 by ettore bugatti]
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 06:49 PM |
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I had thought about using the entire front-end components from the donor (Ford Puma).
I'm not sure how easy it would be to get the existing Macpherson strut arrangement to work well on a 350kg vehicle though.
The Quantum Xtreme front uprights look like they may have been used for a FWD vehicle, but I can't work out which one.
It's Evolution Baby!
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big_wasa
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:02 PM |
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More a case of packaging the strut so it doesn't look like dogs diner.
Sylva mojo
And the onyx firecat springs to mind.
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iank
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:04 PM |
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Classic mini with stripped out CV joints has been used many times, no modification required, fairly light and double wishbone from the factory.
Best image I could find.
[Edited on 27/8/14 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
More a case of packaging the strut so it doesn't look like dogs diner.
I'd be happy enough with a MacP strut and copying the Puma's geometry... but only if I thought I could get a strut that can be damped /
sprung correctly for the vehicle weight (and at sensible money).
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
Classic mini with stripped out CV joints has been used many times, no modification required, fairly light and double wishbone from the factory.
A-ha! Hadn't even thought (clearly) of the classic Mini. Cheers!
It's Evolution Baby!
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:13 PM |
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Quantum Extreme has a custom upright with Sierra hubs IIRC.
350kg is light, an option could be to use ATV suspension.
If you dont want to alter the track width of the Puma donor. I would use the whole package, but replace the springs and shocks for some coilovers with
springs matched to the new weight and the ride height fine adjusted on the shocks.
As said you need to pay a little more attention to hide it visually, but that shouldn't to much of an issue after a little practice.
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austin man
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:33 PM |
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Give Martin Keenan MKengineering a call he designed some for the Midi he built so should be able to let you know all geometry settings etc
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ettore bugatti
If you dont want to alter the track width of the Puma donor. I would use the whole package, but replace the springs and shocks for some coilovers with
springs matched to the new weight and the ride height fine adjusted on the shocks.
As said you need to pay a little more attention to hide it visually, but that shouldn't to much of an issue after a little practice.
I'd probably want to keep the Puma track width as that saves money on driveshafts. My idea at present is for a semi-exo design... open at the
rear and clothed in Smart Roadster bodywork at the front. This means I could hide the strut towers no bother (they may even come in handy for
bodywork locating points).
When you say to use a coilover, would that involve putting an insert in the top of the Puma upright and running double wishbones? Whilst I prefer the
idea of a fully adjustable double-wishbone set-up, my main concern with a Puma hybrid would be that I'll be in relatively uncharted territory...
and we all know what happens when I set sail in them thar waves!
I would, however, go for it I could find a proven front-end set-up that will accept driveshafts (as per my opening post) and has available references
for the placement of the wishbone pick up points.
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:40 PM |
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PS - just in case it's not clear... I'd make an arse of the geo if I'm left to my own devices!
PPS - I have the Puma and the Smart bodywork (leftovers from previously abandoned projects).
It's Evolution Baby!
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big_wasa
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz PPS - I have the Puma and the Smart bodywork (leftovers from previously abandoned projects).
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:54 PM |
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I'm sure that didn't come as a surprise Wasa!
It's Evolution Baby!
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adithorp
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:56 PM |
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Metro/MGF?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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austin man
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 07:57 PM |
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so you do keep some things then Scootz
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 08:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by austin man
so you do keep some things then Scootz
Just the bits that no-one else wants!
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 08:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Metro/MGF?
Hadn't thought of the Metro. Cheers.
MGF? Is that not mid-engined RWD (fixed position uprights)?
It's Evolution Baby!
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adithorp
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 09:01 PM |
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Same front upright though.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Sam_68
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 09:06 PM |
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Another vote for classic Mini/Metro from me.
As iank says, it's relatively light, compact, cheap, easily sourced and it's double wishbone, whereas most of the competition is on
struts.
Another one that's been used successfully is early Renault 5.
Long in the tooth and rare, now, but it has the advantage of not only being double wishbone, but offering a complete longitudinal engine and
gearbox package that doesn't result in the tall, bluff front end that you automatically get with a transverse front engine:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/91461951@N08/9646655057/in/photostream/
Personally, though, I'd go for Mini uprights, with a 2CV engine/gearbox (for the air cooling, low CoG and inboard front brakes), or failing that
a Guzzi engine coupled to a VW box:
[Edited on 27/8/14 by Sam_68]
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 09:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Same front upright though.
Didn't know that... will check it out!
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 09:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
Another vote for classic Mini/Metro from me.
As iank says, it's relatively light, compact, cheap, easily sourced and it's double wishbone, whereas most of the competition is on
struts.
Another one that's been used successfully is early Renault 5.
Long in the tooth and rare, now, but it has the advantage of not only being double wishbone, but offering a complete longitudinal engine and
gearbox package that doesn't result in the tall, bluff front end that you automatically get with a transverse front engine:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/91461951@N08/9646655057/in/photostream/
Personally, though, I'd go for Mini uprights, with a 2CV engine/gearbox (for the air cooling and inboard front brakes), or failing that a Guzzi
engine coupled to a VW box:
Hmmm... I have a VW bus tranny in my garage. I sold the drive flanges off it a while back though. 
Was just looking at a Mini front subframe and was wondering about widening it to take the Sigma engine and IB5 box. Thereafter incorporate it into
the overall space frame design. I'm not fussed about the front looking a bit 'industrial' as it will be covered. The rear chassis
will be a simple single-seater exo type.
It's Evolution Baby!
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Sam_68
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 09:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'm not fussed about the front looking a bit 'industrial' as it will be covered. The rear chassis will be a simple single-seater
exo type.
You also need to think about the CoG.
Transverse front engines inevitably place a big lump of weight not merely in front of your axle line, but quite high up. And of course on top of the
weight of the engine, you've got to package the radiator, if it's water cooled.
I don't think I've ever seen a nice looking transverse front engined trike, even when the engine is enclosed by bodywork - they always
look clumsy and nose-heavy, to me.
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JC
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 09:43 PM |
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MGF front upright is a metro item - it even has a stub driveshaft in it I'm told!
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 09:59 PM |
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I know what you're saying Sam - I don't think that I've seen one that looks right either.
I have a picture in my head... Smart Roadster front tapering towards the single seater frame immediately after the wheel arch... door panels and wing
cut along the crease line and only the top portion used... and meeting the frame at the very end below the roll-hoop (or possibly meeting just behind
it to form the rear mudguard?).
Kind of like a 340R, but with the front wheels enclosed and a tapered chassis / bodywork. Oh, and a batmobile-esque wide rear tyre.
Not looking for precision handling (clearly!). Just something that's reasonable fun to drive and the right side of 'safe' (whatever
that may be), And to actually FINISH a project! 
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 27/8/14 at 09:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JC
MGF front upright is a metro item - it even has a stub driveshaft in it I'm told!
Cheers JC.
It's Evolution Baby!
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