Mansfield
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 07:53 PM |
|
|
What would you have done differently?
Hi, my name is David and this is my first posting.
I am in the 'planning' stages of my first build. I have the Ron Champion 'Bible' and one thing is obvious - as I am not going
to be using a Ford Escort as a donor vehicle (because I dont think I will find one) I will be unable to use the book to the letter.
A million pitfalls spring to mind, but please tell me, if you would be so kind, what would you have done differently for your first build?
My engineering and design skills are above average but my wallet opening skills are almost non-existent. I do, however, recognise that I will NOT be
building a car for £250 and that money spend in the right areas will be an investment.
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
Rob Lane
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 08:06 PM |
|
|
You don't neccessarily need the Escort to build a book car.
Engines, gearboxes, back axles, uprights, brakes etc are all available from ebay or other sources. See some of the for sale on here and keep a lookout
for items appearing.
Bodywork is available from any of the suppliers on this site.
|
|
|
Jon Ison
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 08:07 PM |
|
|
only thing i would have changed is id'e have put a bike engine in 1st instead of the pinto, could have had a smaller trans tunnel if ide have
known what i was gonna do,
if you can find a Cortina, make a great donor.
where you at ? if its Mansfield i'm just down road.
|
|
|
locodude
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 08:28 PM |
|
|
Rebuilt the x-flow and not put a bag of sh1t bike engine in, I'd still have it now
|
|
|
Mansfield
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 08:41 PM |
|
|
I am indeed in Mansfield.
I think I favour the 'one donor' route which I am assuming will be some form of Sierra. I would love to build the chassis myself but I
have read on a builders website (forget which one) that he wished he had bought a frame ready built. God Ron says this is 50% of the build. I am a
biker at heart but cannot open my wallet far enough to but a decent engine AND all the bits I would need from at least one donor car.
|
|
|
scutter
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 08:42 PM |
|
|
tempted to build another one Chris (still be SVA'd before mine )
ATB Dan.
|
|
|
Jon Ison
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 08:45 PM |
|
|
if you aint building the chassis buy a sierra and an MK indy kit, if your building your chassis buy a cortina and nick the engine out ya bike.
weather permitting i'm hoping to nip over too MK one day this week, providing there open that is, come along and have a peek.
[Edited on 28/12/04 by Jon Ison]
|
|
|
Mansfield
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 09:22 PM |
|
|
I am also very close to Robin Hood Engineering, is that a dirty phrase on this forum?
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 09:25 PM |
|
|
Not dirty, just a common source of mirth
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Mansfield
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 09:30 PM |
|
|
Is it the Lada of the kit/seven car world?
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 09:38 PM |
|
|
More of the comedy support act
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
mookaloid
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 09:49 PM |
|
|
You could argue that a R**** H**d looks like a seven, but under the skin they are nothing like.
The biggest problems are the chassis, the rear axle and suspension, the front suspension, the interior, the exterior, er and I think that there was
some other stuff too but I cant remember it all...
Mark
|
|
|
Mansfield
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 09:58 PM |
|
|
Okay. the Hood is a No No. What are the pitfalls of a Sierra powered Ron Champion?
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 10:08 PM |
|
|
To be fair to RH, some of the stuff is useable, but with quite a lot of fettling. Some people have made quite good cars, but they are not straight
forward, easy or conventional. They are made down to a price, I suppose you get what you pay for, £1000 is not a lot for a full kit
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Simon
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 10:09 PM |
|
|
Where would you like to start?
Front perhaps? Steering rack to wide unless you build chassis wider. Four inches is good! Engine? You may be unfortunate enough to end up with a
1.8CVH. I was and threw it in a skip
Rear suspension will need to be replaced with either De Dion or IRS. See Craig1410's website re details of de Dion if you go that route. If IRS
buy Tiger Avon book and bastardise the two chassis.
If you build chassis wider, you'll need to make your own or mod someone elses rear panel/scuttle/bonnet and nose.
If you go wider, you may also like to consider putting in a proper engine.
What would I do if I knew then what I know now?
Buy a Viento and be on the road two years ago!!!!!!!!
HTH
ATB
Simon
PS Welcome to the forum
|
|
|
Mansfield
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 10:12 PM |
|
|
I have read there are chassis plans FOC at 4" wider courtesy of mscmorely, is this a good bet?
And what would you call a proper engine?
|
|
|
krlthms
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 10:17 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
You could argue that a R**** H**d looks like a seven, but under the skin they are nothing like.
The biggest problems are the chassis, the rear axle and suspension, the front suspension, the interior, the exterior, er and I think that there was
some other stuff too but I cant remember it all...
Mark
Driver? 
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 10:29 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mansfield
I have read there are chassis plans FOC at 4" wider courtesy of mscmorely, is this a good bet?
And what would you call a proper engine?
I think the McSorely plans are essential, whichever one you choose. I disagree with the advise about using the Tiger rear end. A pile of tubes thrown
in the general direction of you car and then welded where they fell would have a better design, the GTS DeDion has got to be the easiest, cheapest and
most competent option to a live axle.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Hellfire
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 10:38 PM |
|
|
Here, save money by putting a Pinto engine in - then double it when when you've experienced a bike engined car - seems like a growing number of
CEC owners are swapping to BEC if they're not BEC already!
Save up for a more worthwhile investment... go BEC!
|
|
|
paulf
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 10:56 PM |
|
|
I would have used round tube and sloped it downwards at the sides by you elbows as the original seven.
This is one thing iI did not do and have always regretted.
I put in a crossflow engine even though i have a blade engine ready to fit, but cant bring myself to rip it all out to fit a bike engine now its
finished as to much work with exhaust, prop and dash to change.
I also would go for the GTS de dion if using a sierra donor.
Paul.
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 28/12/04 at 11:46 PM |
|
|
keep it simple and stick to the book or the mcsorely plans as much as you can. or buy a kit, which will give you a huge start and make things easier
and give a faster build.
All things I didnt do.....
If you actually look at the bits you really need from an escort, its precious little! So an escort is not essential. a mk4/5 cortina appears to be the
best fit - but they are a tad rare
atb
steve
[Edited on 28/12/04 by stephen_gusterson]
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 29/12/04 at 11:54 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mansfield
I have read there are chassis plans FOC at 4" wider courtesy of mscmorely, is this a good bet?
And what would you call a proper engine?
Yes, the McSorley plans are much better than the books, they don't have a numerous errors for a
start, and you also get a proper drawing for each chassis member to help with cutting.
The 2.0L Pinto is a good budget engine. It's a bit heavy and not overly powerfull in standard form, (but enough power to make a locost move
pretty quickly). However, it's simple and easy to work on, it comes with the donor (if you buy a suitable Sierra) and there is still a huge
range of tuning bits if you want more power later on.
OF the engines fitted to the Sierra, avoid the 1.8CVH and the later 8valve DOHC engine (very tall and more difficult to fit into locost). The 1.6
Pinto is hardly worth bothering with either, as there are so many 2.0 lumps avalable.
A more modern alternative is the Zetec which can be picked up pretty cheaply, and will bolt up to a Ford Type 9 gearbox with the appropriate mix of
clutch components. It was never fitted to the Sierra though.
|
|
|
Volvorsport
|
| posted on 29/12/04 at 12:38 PM |
|
|
well , after buying a chassis second hand , i would deffo build a +4 , it gives you more options - but then im wanting to build a complete composite
chassis . Dont overlook some more mundane donors that have more powerful engines as std . If youre buying a kit , stick to it .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 29/12/04 at 12:51 PM |
|
|
I agree with everything Mike has said, the 18CVH can be fitted without insummountable problems, but is very fragile if not properly serviced
throughout its life, and you are limited to 90bhp.
The pinto will fit into a book chassis, but it is VERY tight, if you drop a socket, it never reaches the workshop floor!
 
Rescued attachment TightPinto.jpg
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
James
|
| posted on 29/12/04 at 01:50 PM |
|
|
I'd have done the following differently:
For fitting the Pinto I'd have added 1" height to the chassis/engine bay.
Used GTS' De Dion back end (as opposed to my own IRS system).
Mounted the engine lower.
plus numerous other things...
HTH,
James
[Edited on 29/12/04 by James]
|
|
|
.jpg)
