David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/7/18 at 05:47 PM |
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Random thoughts - converting to electric
A few months back I bought a 2018 40kW Nissan Leaf, and I've been very impressed with the way it accelerates - it has 148hp and 236lb ft, and
max torque available at zero revs. I've surprised quite a few motorists with the way it picks up and goes in traffic.
So my mind has started to wander over to converting my Locost to electrics (note that this is purely a pipe dream as all of the bits and pieces would
be far too expensive, £5k minimum, but probably approaching £10K!). However, I reckon that with the right motor and batteries it would probably go
like stink. The motor and batteries would probably weigh less than the current x-flow and gearbox, and I'd be content with about 100 miles
range.
I know that a small number of seven-style cars have been converted - anyone else played with this idea?
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tims31
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| posted on 14/7/18 at 06:15 PM |
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I can't remember where I saw it now, might have been Stoneleigh but there was someone showing an electric motor that fitted and mounted on the
diff of an english axle.
Build: http://www.martinsfurybuild.co.uk/
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/7/18 at 06:19 PM |
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Hmm - these motors are heavy - 50Kg or so - so I'm not sure I'd want it on the diff of a live axle. Would work well on a fixed diff
though.
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Slater
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| posted on 14/7/18 at 06:36 PM |
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Some reading on the subject:
Megawatt in Barbados
Locost linker
Why do they call Port Harcourt "The Garden City"?...... Becauase they can't spell Stramash.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/7/18 at 08:45 PM |
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I had forgotten that second thread - it's all pipe-dreams anyway - there's no way I could justify spending all that money on
electrification. If I was going to spend that money I'd start with a new chassis.
Fun thinking about it though!
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miskit
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| posted on 15/7/18 at 12:54 PM |
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It's the batteries that are expensive/ heavy.
I picked up an EV motor and driver board used for <£1000, I have a pre printed PCB for the controller and the parts to populate it are about £50
(Google Open ReVolt). Lots of information on http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/
I have my heart set on 10kwh of Outlander Phev batteries. They used to come up on eBay from breakers, but as Mitsubishi offer an 8 year guarantee on
the pack then only the off-grid and DIY car people are after them! Have not seen any on in a while. Meanwhile since the MX5 conversion is running
sweetly I may need another car to put it in...
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tilly819
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| posted on 16/7/18 at 08:52 AM |
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I have been considering doing this, I'll be interested to see what you come up with.
F20C Haynes roadster 440 BHP/Tonne www.youtube.com/handmadeextreme
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/7/18 at 09:15 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by miskit
It's the batteries that are expensive/ heavy.
I was trying to work out what the total weight of my x-flow engine, type 9 gearbox, fuel tank (with fuel), exhaust system works out to - about 175kg,
I reckon (finger-in-air calculation from dodgy google searches). I don't think this is far off.
Most electric motors seem to be around 50kg - I wonder what a suitable pack of batteries would weigh?
That Open ReVolt link is interesting...
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 16/7/18 at 10:01 AM |
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The 24 kWh battery and control module from the first generation Leaf weighs 218kg.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 16/7/18 at 11:16 AM |
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I'd love an EV small car if nothing more that for the novelty, but their just an expensive joke. Once you add in the cost of replacing the
batteries any possible saving goes out the window and how do you sell a EV that needs a battery change out the following year...no one will touch it
without you having to take a huge deduction to pay for a new battery your not going to even get to use. Like having a car that's engine that
every potential buyer knows is guaranteed to burn out every 8 years!
It's all good intentions but currently have so many flaws it's not worth even considering but for a small minority of situations.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 16/7/18 at 04:52 PM |
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How much is a replacement battery pack? just interested.....
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/7/18 at 11:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
How much is a replacement battery pack? just interested.....
In 2014 -
Nissan has introduced a battery replacement scheme for owners of its electric vehicles in the UK. Priced at £4,920, buyers will also receive £1,000
cashback for the their old battery.
To give you an idea that £5000 would get you about 50,000 miles worth of petrol for a 50mpg car. If you look at EV sites very rarely they even
consider/bring up the cost of battery replacement, only focusing on the cost of petrol vs electricity misleading people into thinking they are getting
a much better deal that they actually are.
[Edited on 17/7/18 by Mr Whippy]
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Ugg10
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| posted on 17/7/18 at 01:11 PM |
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My view on this is that a range extender would be a better bet currently.
To explain, an IC engine (small diesel power unit, Smart car may be) running at constant speed/peak efficiency connected to a generator that then
passes through either a small bank of batteries or capacitors which are then connected to an electric motor. This is the way the BMW I3 extender and
Vauxhall Ampere work IIRC and if you look up the Morag Lifecar that used the capacitor idea.
Doing a bit of maths on my 10 fingers and 10 toes ((unusual I know given I come from Lincolnshire :-) ), most family cars need about 25hp to cruise on
the flat at 70mph and I suspect the average journey has an average power usage of about 35-40hp. So, you can convert the diesel power (constant) into
electric and use this to drive the car and then use the battery/capacitor to store energy when coasting/downhill and then release it when accelerating
you would have a pretty efficient (but maybe not light, trade off batteries for the Diesel Engine) car that does not get stranded when the batteries
run out (just fuel up from a petrol station).
Just a thought.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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ravingfool
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| posted on 17/7/18 at 01:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
How much is a replacement battery pack? just interested.....
In 2014 -
Nissan has introduced a battery replacement scheme for owners of its electric vehicles in the UK. Priced at £4,920, buyers will also receive £1,000
cashback for the their old battery.
To give you an idea that £5000 would get you about 50,000 miles worth of petrol for a 50mpg car. If you look at EV sites very rarely they even
consider/bring up the cost of battery replacement, only focusing on the cost of petrol vs electricity misleading people into thinking they are getting
a much better deal that they actually are.
[Edited on 17/7/18 by Mr Whippy]
The financial side doesn't seem to stack up for the average punter. I'm not familiar with pros/cons of company cars and the detailed tax
treatment as they're not something that people in my line of work usually have but can imagine that in the right circumstances they would be
ideal under some schemes where you're just getting the benefit of the car and only have to worry about the cost per mile without needing to
factor purchase and service costs.
I encourage as many people as possible to go electric immediately though and look forward to the technology really coming of age in another decade or
two and then I'll get one 
As noted above, electric could be great for a kitcar, even if it lost a lot of the noisy fun in the process. I wouldn't have to worry about the
gently weeping rear seal on my gearbox if I went electric and my other half wouldn't complain about getting cooked by the exhaust!
Solicitors are not 'early adopters'.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 17/7/18 at 02:02 PM |
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Out of interest the two quickest cars up the hill at the Goodwood FOS this year were electric. The VW Pikes Peak car looked (and was) so fast, I think
they said it posted something like the 4th quickest time ever up the hill. Worth a watch.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/7/18 at 03:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
Out of interest the two quickest cars up the hill at the Goodwood FOS this year were electric. The VW Pikes Peak car looked (and was) so fast, I think
they said it posted something like the 4th quickest time ever up the hill. Worth a watch.
An ideal race for electric cars with full torque right from standstill and a short duration
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adam1985
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| posted on 17/7/18 at 05:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
Out of interest the two quickest cars up the hill at the Goodwood FOS this year were electric. The VW Pikes Peak car looked (and was) so fast, I think
they said it posted something like the 4th quickest time ever up the hill. Worth a watch.
An ideal race for electric cars with full torque right from standstill and a short duration
Im not sold on these electric cars to be honest, part of the excitement of fast cars is the noise and when a electric car wafts past its not the same
but that vw knocked off 16 seconds from the pikes peak record too so its hard not to be impressed and the tech is only going to get better.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 17/7/18 at 06:07 PM |
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The electric cars do make sense on pikes peak, apparently the big turbo cars can loose 200hp from bottom to top just because of the gain in altitude
(density of air), if that is true the electric cars have a big advantage.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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02GF74
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| posted on 17/7/18 at 09:14 PM |
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Yes it is true, normally aspirated engines lose power too.
Recall the top gear adventure in the andes.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/7/18 at 06:31 AM |
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Reminds me of an old TV programme about trains in the Andes: there used to be a high mountain railway that was hauled by steam locomotives, but they
got old and worn out so they replaced them with diesel locos - at high altitude they found that they needed 2 diesel locos to replace one old steam
loco. In the end I believe that they fixed the problem with turbos or superchargers.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 18/7/18 at 06:36 AM |
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There's quite a few good vids on Youtube about Tesla's which should be enough to put anyone who doesn't have a bottomless pit of a
wallet right off buying an electric car. Most have had several replacement motors even at low miles, super complex control systems under direct
manufactures control for updates (upset them and your in trouble), very restricted options to get it serviced, manufactures total monopoly on
replacement parts and how much they charge you. Tbh they seem to be a perfect example of just how bad things could get.
Compared to just buying a normal small car with a frugal petrol engine I doubt there is any possibility in the long run of saving the slightest bit of
money going electric. As for saving the environment, what a joke, most of the electrically is still coming from burning fossil fuels, it's just
moving the exhaust pipe elsewhere so you can pretend it doesn't exist. Then you have the batteries that behave like thermite the instant they
are crushed and yet in cars like the Tesla the entire floor is the battery, it's massive. Good luck in a side impact, your toast 
Every time I see a Tesla at shows all they do is open and shut their gull wing doors, endlessly...... yawn is that really it's party trick?? how
the doors open... pathetic
[Edited on 18/7/18 by Mr Whippy]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 18/7/18 at 12:29 PM |
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Depends on your usage I guess. I plan to use mine for touring, which would fall flat on it's face. You'd need to design around the battery
pack, which is fixed format. Which makes it a bit of a sod.
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02GF74
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| posted on 18/7/18 at 05:29 PM |
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It's all about energy storage and efficiency.
For comparison, what is the energy stored in 1 kg if petrol and same for latest technology battery.
And efficiency of petrol engine and drive train compared to electric motor and drive train.
Then there is energy recovery, re. Breaking to consider.
[Edited on 18/7/18 by 02GF74]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 19/7/18 at 12:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
It's all about energy storage and efficiency.
For comparison, what is the energy stored in 1 kg if petrol and same for latest technology battery.
And efficiency of petrol engine and drive train compared to electric motor and drive train.
Then there is energy recovery, re. Breaking to consider.
[Edited on 18/7/18 by 02GF74]
A lithium-ion battery pack has about 0.3 to 0.8 MJ/kg. Gasoline has 46.8 Mj/kg thus it has about 100 times the energy density of a lithium-ion battery
or 10 times that of TNT... however Plutonium through natural decay is almost 48,000 times more energy dense so would need just a tiny little bit and
has a half life of 87 years so no refuelling for the life of the car  clearly nuclear powered cars are the way forward....
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 19/7/18 at 02:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
It's all about energy storage and efficiency.
For comparison, what is the energy stored in 1 kg if petrol and same for latest technology battery.
And efficiency of petrol engine and drive train compared to electric motor and drive train.
Then there is energy recovery, re. Breaking to consider.
[Edited on 18/7/18 by 02GF74]
A lithium-ion battery pack has about 0.3 to 0.8 MJ/kg. Gasoline has 46.8 Mj/kg thus it has about 100 times the energy density of a lithium-ion battery
or 10 times that of TNT... however Plutonium through natural decay is almost 48,000 times more energy dense so would need just a tiny little bit and
has a half life of 87 years so no refuelling for the life of the car clearly nuclear powered cars are the way forward....
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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