Monkey Man
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 11:37 AM |
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Total newbie
I have been taken with the idea of building a kit car. My experience of car related matters though is limited to changing the oil and the spare wheel
on my fiesta... I really like the idea of having a car I've built myself though.
This means I would have an awful lot of learning to do.
Things I do know.
It's going to be more expensive than I think it is.
It's going to take a lot longer than I think it is.
It will need a lot of determination to see it through to the end.
I've had a look around at the various kits available and really like the look of the luego velocity. A sierra donor should be relatively easy
to get my hands on I think. If I stick to exactly what they have in the build manual it should be _relatively_ straight forward and not horrifically
expensive.
What I need from you guys is some information. What are the basic tools that are required? I know what spanners are but I don't know who makes
good ones what sizes I would need or where to get them. I don't even know what the other tools I would need are.
I need to do some reading but I don't know what I ought to be reading.
There are various kit car related books on Amazon which seem to receive glowing reviews from half the people but then get slated by someone who has
actually built his own car as containing no useful information.
Are there any obvious starting points you would recommend? Any books you have found useful?
Any help, encouragement, derision, scorn or flames gratefully welcomed!
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Fifer
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 11:51 AM |
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first stop should be........
12 & 13 March 2005 Car Craft 2005 Stafford County Showground, Stafford, UK.
you will get all the info you need there, talk to everyone and pick up all the leaflets you can get ypour hands on 
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 11:52 AM |
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Welcome to the site Monkey Man ...you have certainly found the right place to be
You are right on the things you say you know! I think may people on here would wholeheartedly agree with those 3 statements!
There are several kits available that use the Sierra as a donor; Luego, MK, MNR and GTS to name a few. Different people will all tell you which one
you <should> be building, but at the end of the day its a personal preference...they all have drawbacks and bonuses of their own.
Basic tools depends how involved you want to be with your build, if you are thinking of fabricating your own parts a welder would be a wise
investment. Other power tools; angle grinder (very useful some would say  ), drill. For a reasonably full list see the 'book'.
As for tool quality...thats up to you. Some people buy cheap tools and replace them as they break, others buy expensive ones that dont break in the
first place...
Good first book is probably the 'book' ie Ron Champions How to build your own sportscar. Gives you an idea of what involved, but there are
several errors in there.
Further reading depends on how much you want to get involved, if you want to get into suspension geometry etc there are several good books
available.
The best thing to do would be to read back over some of the old posts on here (use the search feature if you know what you want). Theres lots of good
info on here that will probably answer many of your questions in the future!
Hope some of that is helpful 
David
[Edited on 2/3/05 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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barrie sharp
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 12:03 PM |
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Hi and welcome.
There are various views on where,what and when and you will find no end of people on this site giving diferent answers
my advice would be to get yourself to a show or meeting thats near to you and have a good look at whats involved, if you can cadge a ride and see if
its for you then make your mind up as to what you want .
And then keep it simple!!simple gets you on the road quickly if its a Total kit more cost but quicker build.
If any of this helps then good luck!!
if it doesent help post again and someone else will come along with other views
or use the search button at the top (hours of reading there)
by the way where are you based if its Devon you can have a ride in mine
best of luck and welcome again
Barrie
Edit ;you lot can type faster then me
[Edited on 2/3/05 by barrie sharp]
the cars looking good" a blind man would be pleased to see it"
''stop press'' the blind mans seen it said "it felt ok"
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 12:19 PM |
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The only advice I can offer is to buy your tools as and when you need them - you'll only end up buying stuff you don't need if you get
them too early.
For example, if you haven't picked an engine yet, you wont know if a set of metric spanners will be enough - I needed an A/F set as well
'cos I've got an old Ford engine.
Otherwise it's basic garage stuff - hammer(s), hacksaw, files, elastoplast, gloves, eye protection, bandages - the usual stuff... 
David
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 12:49 PM |
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Best advice would be to research thoroughly before commiting to any specific car or donor.
I commited to the Tiger before I had found this site and (although i am happy with my build so far) would probably have gone for the Luego or MK
instead having read the posts here.
I know people on here who have rushed out to buy a sierra and got one that isn't perfect as a donor. It seems to me from the tone of your post
that you will be wanting to minimize costs and keep the build simple. In my opinion (prepare for the backlash) the simplest route would be to obtain a
decent 2.0l sierra with a good condition sohc (refered to as a pinto) engine. The Injection models are easily converted to carbs and are better than
the original carb version.
Alternatively you could look for a 4x4 example which will cost a bit more but does have a limited slip diff (this will make things slightly more
complicated in the build)
But remeber that some 4x4s come with a v6 engine which may not fit in your eventual choice of car.
expect to pay about £50-£100 for a decent 2.0l efi sierra and possibly £150- £300 for a 4x4 Ghia.
It is always a good start to get your donor first and get stripping - great fun - and it feels like you are doing something.
when you are ready to strip have a search through the old posts on here and ask lots of questions - you will be surprised how many odds and sods you
will need to remove!
I'm sure others will have loads of advice to add and some will deride my recommendation of the Pinto - however I am purely suggesting it as a
simplest solution and you will find most of the cars are designed around it.
Whatever you decide - Welcome and good luck
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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scoobyis2cool
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 12:51 PM |
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Welcome to the site!
I was in much the same position as you when I started my build except I had even less experience with cars - I was really interested in them but had
never really done anything in the way of mechanical work on one.
I would say the most useful thing in my entire build was this site - no matter what question you have there is ALWAYS someone with an answer, so use
it often! I don't think you really need anything else in the way of reading, I have the Ron Champion book which was what got me into this whole
idea, but to be honest I probably only used it once or twice during the actual build.
As for tools I got by with a socket set from Halfords (I think it was about £80), and the usual garage stuff - drill, hammer, etc. I also got a
trolley jack and axle stand set from Halfords - about £20 on special offer.
I didn't really have to buy many specialist tools, and I just bought them as and when i needed them.
The best thing is to just get stuck in and figure stuff out as you go along, otherwise is can seem so overwhelming you never get around to
starting.
If I can do it I assure you, you'll be fine!
Good luck with the build,
Pete
EDIT: After reading Dave's post above I would like to add that the one thing you SHOULDN'T rush into is chosing which kit to build. But
once that's out of the way just do it!
[Edited on 2/3/05 by scoobyis2cool]
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care...
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wheelsinsteadofhooves
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 01:03 PM |
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welcome. you wont be dissapointed, building your own car is great fun and very satisfying, but does involve blood sweat, and tears when the bills roll
in! well worth the effort though. would completely agree with some of the statements above, mainly keep it simple. if you get half-way throu,
then decide you want to do something difficult like build another, more powerfull engine, and get stuck on bearing or whatever, you will loose
enthusiasm for the entire project. just use stuff straight out of the donor. once its on the road and then you decide you want more power, then is a
good time to learn about engines, or get another to practice on whilst your car remains active. same principle goes thoughout, it saves tons of time
and cost too, sticking to (relativly) inexpensive basic components, you can always uopgrade later once you know whats not performing up to scratch.
you can even sell the old bits so its niot all money down the pan.
as far as tools goes, just afew basics will get you started. a socket set and (decent) spanners are a must, screwdrivers, pliers and a hammer are the
basics. you can never anticpate all youll need, but again its cheaper and easier to buy the extic tools as you need them as opposed to at the
beginning. if your buying a ready made chassis/suspension etc (highly recommended - a lot of time/enthusiasm can be lost getting the project off the
ground), then you can do without a welder, at leaset for a while.
ther bits- there are tons. even if you take as much as can off the donor, there will a bunch of stuff to get.
so, where to start - a show is a great idea - stafford coming up. "the book" too, but use more as inspiration then the bible. before you
start building, give it some thought. write out a list of all the jobs, parts etc etc that you think will be involved. that way you can plan a bit and
cost it up aswell. chat to others, this board is a mine of knowledge ad friendly, helpfull advice, and get the lowdown. by a plan i mean an overall
picture of your dream car and what is requried to get it there - suspension set-up, engine type/size, interior etc etc. changes are always more costly
later on so it pays to set the scene early on, and stick to it. every hours planning/thinking about your project, even job to job once you get going,
is worth 3 in the workshop.
sorry to ramble, just trying to empty my head of any usefull bits of info. bottom line is plan ahead and keep it simple.
you wont be dissapointed.
best of luck
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tom_loughlin
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 01:26 PM |
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Hi and welcome to the madhouse!
about a year ago i was in your position - wanted to build a car, and didnt know where to start.
the first thing i did was buy ron champions book - but forget the £250budget!
i read the book loads until i had saven enough $$ to get my kit. if you have the patience, speak to the guys at mk, luego, tiger and gts - and
decide on what best suits you- its a matter of oppinion which kit you go for in the end, or to make your own.
i bought a set of clarke professional tools form machine mart - spanner, sockets, torque wrench etc.. and bought a trolley jack, axle stands as i
needed them.
i have been fortunate to have a long term loan of an engine hoist as well, which has been invaluable!
it also depends on how many cars you int to build, if you only want one, its prob. worth hiring some gear, but if you plan to make a few -then ieon
its best to buy all the necessary tools - but be warned, i set out to build only one car, ended up with 2 sierras, and have now got my next two
projects planned - and im only 21, still in uni - so once you get bitten by the bug, its probably with you for life!
im only halfway through my build, and there has been some point i wonder why i bother, but then again, when something goes to plan it makes it all
great - and i cant begin the satisfaction of driving round in a car you built yourself.
sorry for the essay - if you havent guessed, im supposed to be doing coursework, but this site is far more important
all the best, and you have found the right place here.
Tom
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Monkey Man
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 01:32 PM |
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Thanks for the friendly welcome and good advice. It's nice to hear that some people have got through a build starting with little experience.
First thing to do then would seem to be to get to a show and make a nuisance of myself. I'll order that book as well. I'm in London so
Stafford isn't too far to go (about 120 miles?) so I may well go for that just to get an idea of what I'm letting myself in for.
After that, given that several kits are based round sierra bits and bobs it sounds like a good idea to get the donor first strip it for the parts and
then have a think about how to progress from there.
The only problem then would be disposing of the rest of it, scrappies charge you to take old cars off your hands these days don't they?
I definitely want to keep it simple and as cheap as I can. I want to give myself a good chance of finishing it. If I get hooked I can always try
something more ambitious afterwards.
Thanks again, I wasn't expecting so many friendly and sensible replies so quickly.
<fx>Sidles off towards e-bay, auto trader etc.
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 01:38 PM |
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one other bit of advice - got my donor by having a drive round the nearest council estate, saw a sorry looking sierra in someones front garden (no
headlights) - knocked on the door and asked if they wanted to sell - cost me £40 and got a low mileage 20l Ghia Efi with a full dealer service history
- even had some road tax left!
Breakers charged £20 to take body away, however since found out that certain areas are defined by local council as 'deprived' and if you
live in those areas you can have a car taken away for free! (typically the boudary runs down the middle of my road and I am on the wrong side of it
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Hellfire
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 02:09 PM |
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Monkey Man welcome to the nuthouse. Have a look and read of our build diary. Although it's an MK that we've built, it will give you some
idea of whats involved whichever kit you decide to go for. My advice would be to get a ride in both bike engined cars and car engined cars and then
decide what you can afford.
Best of luck whatever you decide.
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 02:10 PM |
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monkey,if your in london why no get to one of the meets,see in clubs n things
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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scoobyis2cool
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 02:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Monkey Manit sounds like a good idea to get the donor first strip it for the parts and then have a think about how
to progress from there.
The only problem then would be disposing of the rest of it, scrappies charge you to take old cars off your hands these days don't they?
I think getting the donor first could be a good idea if you don't know what you're doing unless you've got the space for both your
chassis and sierra. It took me several months  to strip my sierra, mainly because I didn't have a clue what I was doing, and also because I
was literally stripping everything off it, rather than just the bits I needed. Now I'd be confident that I could strip one down in a weekend.
As for paying for scrapping the shell, there's a place near me that takes them away for free so you may be able to find one like that near you.
I wouldn't have thought my area would count as deprived, it's quite nice really! The scrappy is in a pretty crappy area though, maybe that
would have something to do with it?
Pete
[Edited on 2/3/05 by scoobyis2cool]
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care...
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DarrenW
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 02:50 PM |
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Welcome to the mad house!
If you are an absolute total novice then id propose the kit route. If you can weld then the locost route is a good option - cheaper but takes longer.
So first decision is should you throw money at it to get a good start or do the chassis yourself. - Your choice.
I started by deciding that i wasnt going to build a locost - my choice due to several factors (laziness being the biggest one!). This meant choosing a
kit - bloody hell - what a choice out there, incredibly confusing at first as there is more to it than picking the right price. Some sound cheap on
paper but may not include key components. I started by scouring the kit mags, i couple of names kept appearing in the unfinished project category, why
they were unfinished i dont know but my uncle was building one of them and told me to stay clear. Im 34 so can make my own decision but when i saw his
kit - point made.
Next i went to Newark and Harrogate shows. Had a look, spoke to some people, made a short list. They were all on a convenient route home so visitted
them. Iam now totally biassed to Mac#1, i confess to this and make no apologies but that was my decision and backed up by my build experience. You can
make your own mind up. What is clear is that the good manufacturers are all good, not much to split them. It comes down to personal preference and how
you feel when you talk to them. What i will say is talk to others that have the kit and consider aftersales. You will need aftersales advice if you
are as much of a newbie as you say.
If you are interested my short list was Mac#1, MNR and MK. There is no special reason for not considering the other good ones like Luego, GTS, Tiger
etc but the first 3 were closer to me. Your decision at the end of the day - end products are all good.
Above all, take your time deciding and enjoy the process.
Another word on donors. I got my Sierra for the bargain price of nowt. Big mistake (for me anyway). It was completely knackered, engine goosed,
everything has had to be overhauled / replaced. This is fine if you are aiming for factory finish and new parts, but if budget is the order of the day
you may be better getting a runner that has been pampered by one owner for all of its 60K miles life, with loads of new bits fitted and just failed
MOT. Not easy to find but you might get something half way.
In terms of tools, i dont have anything special. Im proud of what i do have but generally i use standard type hand tools. Anything else more
specialised can normally be borrowed or bought as and when required. Start with good spanners, socket set, screwdrivers, saws, files etc. Tap set has
been useful. Good rivet tool essential. A lot of my other gear doesnt get used. Oh yes - another good bit of kit was trestles when i was getting to
rolling road stage - its torture doing most of the build on the floor! I borrowed the engine hoist - its possible to hire them when the time comes.
Best tool has been pen and paper. to plan next stages and note jobs to complete later. I spend hours (usually with Vodka in hand!) thinking about the
next 4 or 5 jobs to make sure the sequence is right and get the bits ready before hand.
Do your homework and get stuck in. Above all - dont be frightened to ask. Most people are so proud of their achievements that they will go out of
their way to help you and show you what they have done.
Regards,
Darren.
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JoelP
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 02:51 PM |
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i spent ages with the first sierra in my drive (literally months!) as i took more and more bits off, and other bits apart out of curiosity.
stripped most of one in 4 hours yesterday with an air wrench! good fun.
remember, the tidiest way to store all the donor pieces is on the car. plus, whilst the donor is still in one piece its less of a disgrace for the
neighbours.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 03:00 PM |
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i stripped my donor in one day, at mates farm with help of fork lift truck and shell went in skip. I was lucky but the challenge of these cars is
thinking beyond the norm. Another option is to buy the bits ready refurbed from companies like http://www.kitfit-parts.co.uk/sierrawebp1.htm. Uprights
sound expensive at £105 per side but work out the maths - its not too bad and you dont get dirty. Odd bits can be sourced as and when from scrap yard
or on this site. Of course this route will cost more and you dont have a donor V5 (making Q plate more likely) but could solve donor problems if you
dont have storage facilities etc.
If you go full donor route, enjoy it and at least you can get the bits prepped before the chassis comes along and takes all of the space up.
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ned
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 03:36 PM |
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as conrod says, where abouts in london are you? there is a group known as the west london mafia (WLM) that meet at walton, most of the same people
also meet at newlands corner, nr guildford and the same lot also meet at boxhill, near dorking. check out the clubs & events section for when and
where stuff is happening.
Ned.
ps if you can make it we're meeting this sunday at boxhill!
[Edited on 2/3/05 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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clbarclay
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 05:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Monkey Man
Things I do know.
It's going to be more expensive than I think it is.
It's going to take a lot longer than I think it is.
It will need a lot of determination to see it through to the end.
Theres not a lot you don't already know then. Those are the main things to know, all the rest is just the fine detail.
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James
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 05:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Monkey Man
It will need a lot of determination to see it through to the end.
Not so much determination- more that you have to give up everything else in life- women, career, DIY and everything else!
Anyway, feel free to come along to the Sunday meetings at BoxHill (near Dorking) or Newlands Corner (near Guildford) so you can chat to a few of us
and look at a few examples.
I've built a good portion of my build and I know/knew bugger all about mechanics too so it's not all bad. I was lucky in that a keen
interest in metalwork etc. at school meant I had a load of practice with the fabrication side of things.
Cheers,
James
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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Peteff
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 06:01 PM |
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Breakers charged £20 to take body away,
I helped my friend load his donor remains onto a trailer and he got £25 for it at the local scrapyard. They gave him a calor gas heater and bottle
that was on the heap as well and when he got home found it had a full bottle in it and the only fault was the clicker didn't work so you need a
match to light it.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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JoelP
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| posted on 2/3/05 at 06:15 PM |
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bloke who bought my 4x4 said they were paying £20 for a wreck in mancjester...
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Monkey Man
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 posted on 3/3/05 at 12:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by James
Anyway, feel free to come along to the Sunday meetings at BoxHill (near Dorking) or Newlands Corner (near Guildford) so you can chat to a few of us
and look at a few examples.
To all you lot who mentioned boxhill on Sunday I rather like the sound of that. I saw the thread in clubs+ events but it seemed to be a bit short on
those piffling technical details like time and place I'm westish so would probably just hop on the M25.
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