major
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 06:23 PM |
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So... old issue, mating duratec v6 with a RWD gearbox
I tried to mate the getrag 221 (s-type)with a duratec 25 V6 from a ford mondeo. See if it fits!!!
Well it does and doesn't. I took some pics to get some reaction. They are the same at the top-end of the gearbox. There but when we reach the
bottom of the engine the similarity seems to be gone! On the gearbox I certainly have more holes.
Well my question is there enough to go on ???
How to find out without wrecking the setup?
Go for a different gearbox / adaptor plate or....?
Any ideas?
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PS:
Not all holes are “Gearbox attach” holes. Some of them are startermotor and dustplate holes.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 06:27 PM |
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Just a thought - does the Jag use a different sump?
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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mark chandler
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 06:30 PM |
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Looks to me like you have got a decent selection going around, when you look at some engines like RV8's there is nothing on the bottom, I have
also seen range rover diesel adapator plates which have less fixing than that.
I would be inclined to get a bit of 1/4" plate (or even a few bits of strip and weld together) and make a simple backplate that joins all the
ones that miss.
Regards Mark
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major
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 06:30 PM |
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might, I don't know? the Jag is a 3L instead of a 2.5l.
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AlphaX
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 06:36 PM |
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there are many bellhouses attached to the block with only 4 bolts. Those seem to stay in place. In the end, the bellhouse doesnt carry much weight, as
the engine is mounted around its balance-point and the gearbox is mounted to the chassis. The bellhouse only connects both and covers the
flywheel/clutch bit.
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major
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 06:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by AlphaX
there are many bellhouses attached to the block with only 4 bolts. Those seem to stay in place. In the end, the bellhouse doesnt carry much weight, as
the engine is mounted around its balance-point and the gearbox is mounted to the chassis. The bellhouse only connects both and covers the
flywheel/clutch bit.
OK, got that. But perhaps those 4 points are calculated for this kinda "pressure"?
This is a other SUMP, I saw on an other site. It looks that I got some more "meat" on the gearbox side.
[img][/img]
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big_wasa
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 07:19 PM |
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When bolting a zetec to a type 9 or Mt75 you only get five bolts to hold the job together. Nothing below the bottom of the block.
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major
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 07:23 PM |
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OKe, thanks for the reply.
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AlphaX
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 08:43 PM |
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Same as with a Duratec as I had heard earlier this week. But of that I'm not 100% sure. If you have a few bolts on the main block, and maybe one
or two on the sump, ur in good shape. And if you use 12.9 bolts, you are on the safe side.
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 09:20 PM |
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Being 20cm from the sump the torque force will be less than the force the gearbox shaft will take.
I personally would think of an adapter plate, but i guess you will be supprised with how much torque a few bolts will take.
My v6 and mt75 do not have many fixing points from what i remember.
Darren
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 09:21 PM |
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Sorry 20 cm from centre not sump.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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RazMan
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| posted on 7/4/07 at 09:52 PM |
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I would be inclined to make up an adaptor plate if only to seal out the elements from the clutch.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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major
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| posted on 8/4/07 at 06:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by AlphaX
Same as with a Duratec as I had heard earlier this week. But of that I'm not 100% sure. If you have a few bolts on the main block, and maybe one
or two on the sump, ur in good shape. And if you use 12.9 bolts, you are on the safe side.
Yes 12.9 would be my choice. I only used the pictured one for trial fitting.
The dustplate taken from the Jag will take care of the elements.
I think I will try to "insert" 3 more holes.
The first is on the top right. There is a shifted hole (after closing the origional one), I can make use of the same attachment point.
On the bottom right side, I will make a mod on the gearbox by using the 'flat' part of the pan, closing the others for strenght
enhancement. (this might change If I decide to extend the pan to the right (left on the pic) a little bit to take care of the
On the left side I need some more modding, by adding a pice of alu to the pan in order to cover for that part.
I tend to try to make all mods on the pan or the engine instead of the gearbox for obvious reasons!!!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 8/4/07 at 09:17 AM |
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I would be tempted to drill and tap the engine block where the bellhousing hole is located in the second picture down, providing there is plenty of
meat behind it. However, the majority of the bellhousing sits well above the sump, so it's probably not worth going to lots of trouble to get a
couple of holes to line up in the sump.
Does the starter motor fit ok?
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major
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| posted on 9/4/07 at 05:35 AM |
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"I would be tempted to drill and tap the engine block where the bellhousing hole is located in the second picture down, providing there is plenty
of meat behind it. However, the majority of the bellhousing sits well above the sump, so it's probably not worth going to lots of trouble to get
a couple of holes to line up in the sump. "
Yes, That is the easy one. Behind bellhouse material there is already one located, which i need to fill-up.
"Does the starter motor fit ok?"
I did not try the starter motor jet, It is however located at the same position as the s type with enough space to go arround so I don't think I
have a problem.
.JPG)
[Edited on 9/4/07 by major]
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locost_bryan
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| posted on 13/4/07 at 04:22 AM |
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If the Duratec is from a tranverse installation, you'll need to alter the sump and oil pickup to cater for the 90 degree change in the direction
of oil surge. Can you get a Jag sump (and oil pickup)? Might also give you the missing lower holes (if Jag use them!).
Bryan Miller
Auckland NZ
Bruce McLaren - "Where's my F1 car?"
John Cooper - "In that rack of tubes, son"
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marksimon
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| posted on 14/4/07 at 08:31 AM |
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I intend mating a "Duratec" V6 from a Jaguar X-Type to the Getrag gearbox. I've got the bits but have not yet got around to checking
them !
An engineer from Jaguar had informed me that they will mate up so long as I use the S-Type sump. This will give 11 bolts attaching the parts. see
the drawing.
 
Getrag_221_Bolt_Configuration
 
Getrag_221_Bolt_Fitment
Getrag_221_Bolt_Fitment
He implied that both Ford and Jaguar share the same block. Your pictures suggest the blocks are quite different and not just with respect to the
machining. I am a little surprised.
Anyway, hope the installation goes well. Some time in the future I'd be interested to share more regarding things such as flywheels, clutches,
exhaust manifolds, inlet system, engine management etc.
Have fun.
Mark
~ Edited thess times to get the photos working ! At least I know to how to do it now ~
[Edited on 14/4/07 by marksimon]
[Edited on 14/4/07 by marksimon]
[Edited on 14/4/07 by marksimon]
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major
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| posted on 15/4/07 at 06:15 AM |
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Main diff's
The engine is a 2.5 L, I am not sure if Jaguar used this type of 2.5 with a rwd setup.
The Getrag 221 is from a 3.0L S-type. Whether they used a 2.5L or not there are differences between a 2.5L and a 3.0L on the gearbox sides!
The main differences between the engine and the box are shown in pic 2 and 5, the rest is the sump I recon (9,6,5,11).
In pic 2 there is a hole, but it does not allign wth the one on the gearbox. (thats 10 on the drawing.)
Hole 8 seems to be a big difference between the duratec 25 and the gertrag 221. I am not sure what to do with that.
Thanks,
Marc.
ps:
At present I will use the dualmass flywheel (s-type) to test the setup and for measurements.
The UIM and TB is from a st200 (DH). I did not make a dicision yet on the LIM and the engine management.
My understanding is that the standard ECU is a bit of a problem to change. So I am thinking about using a KMS.
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clockwork
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| posted on 26/7/07 at 05:15 PM |
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[BUMP]
Did you get this sorted?
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin.
"Well if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" Morons the world over.
Locost/Kit builders info and FAQ website:- www.carbuilders.info
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major
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| posted on 29/7/07 at 05:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clockwork
[BUMP]
Did you get this sorted?
I bought a s-type sump. Did not have a chance yet to see if it fits.
From a small distance it looks like it.
Only the same thing also aplied to the gearbox / engine combination!!
Will keep you updated.
marc.
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major
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| posted on 18/8/07 at 01:16 PM |
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sorted! 3rd one from the left is open. I ran out of bolts!!! The solusion was simple, different sump!
[img][/img]otom%20view.JPG
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locost_bryan
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| posted on 27/8/07 at 03:37 AM |
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So, you just need a Jag S-type sump to bolt a Duratec 2.5 (Ford or Jag X-type) to the Getrag box?
Easy or cheap to find (sump or Getrag box)?
Bryan Miller
Auckland NZ
Bruce McLaren - "Where's my F1 car?"
John Cooper - "In that rack of tubes, son"
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major
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| posted on 27/8/07 at 05:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by locost_bryan
So, you just need a Jag S-type sump to bolt a Duratec 2.5 (Ford or Jag X-type) to the Getrag box?
Easy or cheap to find (sump or Getrag box)?
Yep, Just a s-type box, I paid 450 gpb for mine including transport from uk to Holland. I recon if you look a bit further, you can get it for less.
The sump 40 euro excluding gasket and pipe. The suction pipe in the engine needs a little adjusting.
Last but not least, the end of a small bolt (baf-plate) is in the way, in the inside of the engine. Used the saw.
marcel.
[Edited on 27/8/07 by major]
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locost_bryan
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| posted on 28/8/07 at 02:21 AM |
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Interesting comment in Wiki about the Duratec V6, claiming that the Yamaha V8
from the Taurus SHO used the same bore and stroke and bellhousing bolt pattern as the 2.5 V6, and claiming the current Volvo V8 is based on it (has
the same stroke as the 3.0 Duratec V6). Hmm, wonder if that has the same bellhousing bolt pattern... 
Bryan Miller
Auckland NZ
Bruce McLaren - "Where's my F1 car?"
John Cooper - "In that rack of tubes, son"
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Simon
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| posted on 28/8/07 at 07:44 PM |
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Glad you got this resolved - as it's a bit more for the general knowledge base.
I would say, however, as Mark C pointed out early in the thread that R V8 have only 4 or so bolts in an 18" dia. More to think about is the
prop fixings or wheel fixings. They have 4 or so in a 4" or 5" diameter.
I'll let somone else work out how the torque effects that
BTW, can you now fit one of the new Jag diesels
ATB
Simon
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