cheapracer
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| posted on 2/5/10 at 08:10 AM |
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I don't need handbags, I can slap and pull hair all by myself.
It's coming....
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 2/5/10 at 01:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
It's quite simple; if you can't back up what you are saying with clear and concise pics of the claimed articles, then don't make the
statement.
It's not for me to try to convince the world of my own opinions and experiences. Given that up years ago.
It's up to you to show proof of your statements on revolutionary geometry. Pictures of this Strakka upright would stop any alternative
statements dead. You made the statement, you show the proof.
I could say that drunken Martians live in a USA built commune on the far side of the moon. Without solid pictorial proof, who'd believe it? Then
there's always Photoshop.... 
And, the same effect as your 'trail' can be got from castor, with a few advantages ( or so I'm told) to boot.
I'm off to the next shuttle, to go have a beer with my Martian mates. 
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 2/5/10 by Neville Jones]
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cheapracer
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| posted on 6/5/10 at 04:48 AM |
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Neville Jones said: "Trail is used on supermarket trolleys, and belongs there only"
Listen buddy, you were the one that strolled into this thread saying that trail belongs on shopping trolleys - you have given no reason at all why you
made this statement. Instead even though I state technical reasons why and give you Team names who do it yet you insist on calling out bullshit with
no foundation.
Now you go on to say that theres other ways of getting trail - hang on you said trail was bad so why would you want other ways to get it? - well, is
trail bad or not and WHY is it bad??
This thread is about building your own uprights, I'm trying to provide some helpful information for people to decide on their own designs -
wheres your technical input?
I'll ask you again - Why is trail bad? The people considering designing their own uprights would be thankful to hear from you.....
My mate will try to take a snap next meeting he's there with Strakka but in the meantime you will have to do with an Australian V8 Supercars
upright with around 50mm of trail picture (depending on caster of course).
[Edited on 6/5/10 by cheapracer]
 
Rescued attachment upright2.jpg
It's coming....
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v8kid
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| posted on 6/5/10 at 03:27 PM |
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Cheapracer how does that upright relare to the car? Is the caliper in front of the front axle or behind it?
I ask because if the calipers are behind the front axle, which is almost the convention here, there is quite a big offset which appears to give zero
trail the way the photo is taken.
Either way is that level of offset between the king pin axis and the wheel center normal? It appears to be about 50mm and I assumed for some reason
(that I can't for the life of me recollect) that it would be around 20 to 25mm.
Cheers
Davi
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 7/5/10 at 09:54 AM |
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Please, show a pic of one of those things ON A CAR!
How about a different angle pic of that one above, showing the opposite side of the brake disc, as well as the upright?
I happen to be quite close to the V8 community, and know the rules governing the parts used. You're playing in my backyard here, well and truly.
If you understand what that means?
How long is the steering arm on that upright above? WHERE is the steering arm on that thing above?
From that pic also, that caliper doesn't belong on that upright. The disc looks as though it passes through the middle of the pistons. Maybe
it's the disc that's wrong?
Is that a six piston caliper? Check a proper V8 for what is currently used.
And you expect everyone here to believe that a 3000lb race car that bounces over curbs, has it's front stub axle held into the upright with that
single bolt?
[ with around 50mm of trail picture (depending on caster of course).]
Do you understand what you are talking about? Truly, really? Trail is independant of castor, is built in, and is constant. Centrepoint(or
pressurepoint) offset, due to castor, is variable and is a function of castor. This is why castor is preferable to trail. Trail also can get
'the wobbles', just like a trolley. Castor, with the geometry and the method in which it loads, is self damping in this respect.
Good try, but no cigar this time.
That pic above is one of your own uprights, is it not?
[Edited on 8/5/10 by Neville Jones]
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Theshed
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| posted on 9/5/10 at 07:14 AM |
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Rather depends on how you use the word "trail" does it not? If you say trail is the measurement between the wheel centreline at ground
level and the point at which a line through the ball joints intersects the ground then it is clear that trail will vary with castor. If you define
trail only by reference to the upright i.e. the relative positions of the balljoints and axles then it cannot vary short of moving the balljoints.
I must say that the first definition is the one used in many suspension design programs.
Handbags down and see if you are squabbling about nothing much.
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cheapracer
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| posted on 19/5/10 at 10:37 AM |
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That is an older V8 Supercar upright but it runs basically the same geometry then as one does today as the tyres have remained fairly constant for a
few years. Todays brake package is different as they have a regulation brake now they must use.
The caliper is at the back of the upright and the stub axle is to the front because Supercars run in the order of 12 to 13 degrees caster the trail
ends in the region of 50mm varying slightly with caster tuning.
They also run about 6 degrees of Camber.
It's coming....
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cheapracer
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| posted on 19/5/10 at 12:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Please, show a pic of one of those things ON A CAR!
[Edited on 8/5/10 by Neville Jones]
Heres a BF Falcon V8 Supercar upright, brakes etc on a current build Sports Sedan.
For those who are truly interested notice because of the caster used and the axle ends up aprox directly above LCA, you can see just how much trail it
has by the time the caster pivot line hits the ground.
Whats next Mr Jones - video? stat declarations?
Why is trail bad Neville? You still haven't answered the question.......
 
Rescued attachment BF.jpg
It's coming....
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 19/5/10 at 06:19 PM |
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Why is trail bad Neville? You still haven't answered the question.......
I think if you go back a few, my answer is there. If you can read and understand plain english.
If you can see all that, in that grainy pic above, then you should be working for MI5, interpreting satellite pics of our enemies.
That pic shows a remarkably normal upright,(as far as a man can interpret it) with remarkably normal geometry, if you look closely. No 'trolly
trail' on that item.
I'll have to take your word that the photo is what you reckon it is, though, but I have my doubts.
I was in Brisbane a few months ago, and got a tour of the workshop of a top team. I'll be back there in a few weeks, and living but a short walk
from that same team. I'll have to pop in and see if they've made any dramatic changes in the last few months.
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 19/5/10 by Neville Jones]
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