interestedparty
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| posted on 21/1/11 at 10:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
I'm perfectly happy to assess for myself whether anything I make is safe or not, but I am not happy for other people to do that same,
because there are some compete 'kin idiots out there.
And the brake balance test, they have got a point there, it simply can't be tested on a road or in an MOT station, because neither of those can
check at all the different pedal pressures, which simulate braking on a wet road, for instance. To set brake balance properly would take an expert
with plenty of different surface roads at his disposal where it doidn't matter if he had a spin.
edited to add-
quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
Sorry for any offence caused but WAKE UP ffs and work out why we are the laughing stock of Europe!
Laughing stock of Europe, don't be ridiculous. Try building a kit in France or Italy or Germany and getting it on the road, and see how far you
get. No wonder they come over here to buy our finished kits!
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 21/1/11 at 10:50 PM |
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Exactly, to be honest are we sheep and bending over because we advocate a system that's standardised in order to keep dangerous/falling
apart/horribly built vehicles off the road? Do you think BMW can get away with it? I'm sure their cars go through similar tests only theirs are
for a mass produced type.
Ok maybe there are some test items that are laughable and don't apply in the real world, maybe groups like ourselves should be coming up with
those test items..
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AdrianH
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| posted on 21/1/11 at 10:50 PM |
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There is a way to measure brake balance or brake distribution on your car, one way is to put a brake pressure gauge in each line if one to front and
one to back or split system the second and probably cruder way is to make one of these up.
 
Pedaltest
Fasten to the pedal or bottom of your foot and use it to test at set points whilst on MOT rollers.
Then use or use part of this spreadsheet to work out brake balanceLinky
Change values for your own axle weights and distances. I worked it all out as it was one of my fail points see
http://www.tamarisktechnicals.com/pages/iva.html.
I will be building another car this year and it will be going through IVA, I think it is necessary to have, I also believe it is easier in the UK then
any other European country to get our cars built and on the road.
Adrian
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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A1
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| posted on 21/1/11 at 11:19 PM |
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its good to check to an extent... but they should just check important parts, have a reasonable fee and allow private individuals to do the tests
(think mot). then they need to sort out the dvla side of things. I recon theyre making it really complicated to put us off doing it at all, dont want
any free thinking individuals out there, do we?
the way round is to build the car to pass iva, then upgrade it after. 
just to add, people should stop playing the 'its safety' card, cause theres a heck of a lot thats just cr*p in the test (side repeaters
hassle in IVA??)
my 2p
[Edited on 21/1/11 by A1]
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Strontium Dog
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 01:21 AM |
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quote:
Laughing stock of Europe, don't be ridiculous. Try building a kit in France or Italy or Germany and getting it on the road, and see how far you
get. No wonder they come over here to buy our finished kits!
Yes that's right, and then they scoot off home where their lifestyles are so much better than here!
France is recognised as one of if not the best place in the world to live re lifestyle at this time! The only ridiculous thing is you saying you would
prefer to stay here just because you can build a kit car! 
The fact that it is nicer to live in many places than here is a digression from the topic though. The IVA still sucks and has hardly anything to do
with safety. As is proved by all the posts about how to modify your car as soon as you roll out of the test centre.
And don't tell me you're qualified to asses whether your smaller steering wheel is safe unless you are an accreditid test examiner in the
employ of VOSA. After all, all those rules are only there to protect you aren't they?!
[Edited on 22/1/11 by Strontium Dog]
[Edited on 22/1/11 by Strontium Dog]
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interestedparty
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 08:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
quote:
Laughing stock of Europe, don't be ridiculous. Try building a kit in France or Italy or Germany and getting it on the road, and see how far you
get. No wonder they come over here to buy our finished kits!
Yes that's right, and then they scoot off home where their lifestyles are so much better than here!
France is recognised as one of if not the best place in the world to live re lifestyle at this time! The only ridiculous thing is you saying you would
prefer to stay here just because you can build a kit car!
It may be recognised by you as one of if not the best place in the world to live re lifestyle at this time, so go ahead and move there if
it's so marvellous, I won't mind, there will be a little bit more room here for me.
Good to see you didn't have an answer for my point about getting a kit car on the road there, or Germany, or Italy, or Spain etc etc.
All countries have their good and bad points. When you've moved to France I expect you will eventually realise that yourself.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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ianclark1275
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 08:40 AM |
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maybe groups like ourselves should be coming up with those test items..
Whos built a race / rally car?
same skills and process as building a kit car.
They only need a "MSA" log book, for a small fee.
who issues them? like minded experienced motor sports enthusiasts listed in the Blue book.
no reason why we cant have the "Kit car Blue book", consisting of the IVA type guidance in front and have a list of addresses of our own
resident experts in the back round the country for your "Log book" checks
send new log book to DVLA and wait for your reg number to come thro?
then get an MOT and your away.
if i was given a choice of where to take my completed car, i would go to MK in Maltby (or similar), those boys know what they are doing cos that there
job. i regularly call in if im stuck and look at how they do it, and then buy the bit i need from them. seat belt mounts were last thing i got, i
actually still owe them £5 cos i didnt have enough money!
IC
measure twice, cut once, scrap it, start again.
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 08:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
France is recognised as one of if not the best place in the world to live re lifestyle at this time!
Really? A place where everything grinds to a halt on a fortnightly basis because a union or five is on strike because they don't like the colour
of their new uniform, and where riots, looting and burning cars/blocks of flats seems to be becoming a normal part of the democratic process?
I'll stick with where I am thanks
As for IVA, I have a suspicion that those who are against it are mainly those that have had to suffer an anally retentive tester. Some of the stories
you see on here are horrifying, and a million miles away from the experience I had. My test wasn't at all daunting or stressfull, but it did
bring up a couple of little issues that i'd either stupidly missed, or just hadn't occurred to me at all because at the end of the day,
I'm no expert. However, I was given time and good advice as to how to fix it, and none of the pedantry about having the right paperwork.
It's these kinds of thing that made doing it worthwhile in my opinion.
I can't disagree with the costs though, it is horrific. And the DVLA...when the revolution comes they should be amongst the first up against the
wall
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kevmcdo
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 08:50 AM |
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When I got into kit cars I bought a part built kit as at the time I thought it would be the easier way to get into getting my first kitcarcar, wrong
that car that was described as 90% complete required 80% of it to be taken apart and rebuilt in prep for its SVA test.
When I bought the car it was running and the guy had taken his kids up and down the street in it for photos etc and was convinced that the car was
ready for its test with a few minor trim adjustments.
Once back at home and a bit more in depth checking was when some of the horrors came to light that had to be addressed.
6 months later and the car was through its test, watching the examiner going through the test procedure and listening to his experience and advice was
priceless and took away any fears I had that the car may not be safe or upto scratch thus giving me the confidence thet car that I was going to be
entrusting my well being in whilst out driving it.
Had there not been any SVA test the car would have most likely been on the road in the state that it was was in by the original builder with serious
geometry issues and fixings that were no way upto the job of keeping it all together. Another accident waiting to happen!!!
Yes the politics of the sva /i iva can be a pain and some of the content frustrating but it is there for a point and in respect of comparing it to an
mot its not apples for apples at all.
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indykid
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 09:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ianclark1275
if i was given a choice of where to take my completed car, i would go to MK in Maltby (or similar), those boys know what they are doing cos that there
job. i regularly call in if im stuck and look at how they do it, and then buy the bit i need from them. seat belt mounts were last thing i got, i
actually still owe them £5 cos i didnt have enough money!
IC
that's completely at odds with my experience with them.
if you're given the task of assessing others' work, your own work should be exemplary.
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Strontium Dog
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 11:13 AM |
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quote:
It may be recognised by you as one of if not the best place in the world to live re lifestyle at this time, so go ahead and move there if
it's so marvellous, I won't mind, there will be a little bit more room here for me.
answer for my point about getting a kit car on the road there, or Germany, or Italy, or Spain etc etc.
Er, actually no, not just my opinion but that of International living magazine for one
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1240988/France-tops-list-best-places-live-world-fifth-year-row--Britain-languishes-25th.html
And as to your point about building a kit car in other countries, I would rather a decent life than just be allowed to build a car! Simple. It's
not that I'm not a petrol head, but I have a daughter and I'd rather she and I had a decent standard of living thanks.
If we stood up for ourselves like the French then we might not be getting rogered right now. But maybe you are one of the lucky ones who isn't
struggling to keep their heads above water like most of the rest of us!
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scootz
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 11:17 AM |
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I'm often puzzled by this one... who's getting rogered and how? Everywhere I look, I'm seeing people living very comfortably -
surely we've never had it so good!?
It's Evolution Baby!
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Strontium Dog
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 11:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'm often puzzled by this one... who's getting rogered and how? Everywhere I look, I'm seeing people living very comfortably -
surely we've never had it so good!?
WHAT? Where do you live? I see massive unemployment all around and extreme hardship for many. 1 in 5 school leavers can find no work even with the
HUGE no. of them that go to college with the bums on seats policy. I see people that can't afford to eat properly and I know people that on
minimum wage can no longer afford the fuel to get to work! Maybe that's just here in the west country and the rest of you are all on easy
street!
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scootz
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 12:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'm often puzzled by this one... who's getting rogered and how? Everywhere I look, I'm seeing people living very comfortably -
surely we've never had it so good!?
WHAT? Where do you live? I see massive unemployment all around and extreme hardship for many. 1 in 5 school leavers can find no work even with the
HUGE no. of them that go to college with the bums on seats policy. I see people that can't afford to eat properly and I know people that on
minimum wage can no longer afford the fuel to get to work! Maybe that's just here in the west country and the rest of you are all on easy
street!
WHAT? Where do you live? I see people who don't want to work as the positions available are somehow beneath them and they don't
want to start at the start. I see people who screw the benefits system and therefore have no financial reason to go back to work. I see arrogant
folk who flout the rules of society to feather their own nests. I see fat lazy people who gorge themselves on junk food which costs massively more
than sensible food.
This is the land of milk and honey my friend!
It's Evolution Baby!
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interestedparty
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 02:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
WHAT? Where do you live?
I'm guessing here, reaching into thin air, really, but somehow I have the feeling that he lives on Dartmoor
If that's true, then no wonder he has such a view of English life, and no wonder he's so keen to move to France (as recommended by
lifestyle magazines).
I believe you have moors in Scotland, imagine living on one of those and you will know where he is coming from.
Anyway, back to the topic, there is much about the IVA that I don't like, but it bothers me when people try to avoid it, and then show contempt
for the rest of us describing us as sheep etc.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Russell
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 02:34 PM |
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Are you pro SVA /IVA ?
Yes
I'm a bilingual illiterate. I can't read in two languages.
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jacko
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 03:14 PM |
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Well i hope the people that are in charge of letting us build kitcars [ government / dvla ] don't read this post or they would think of
stop us 
Yes the IVA is a pain but you have to just think of it as part of building the car, or DON'T build the car in the first place 
We should be thankful they let us AT THE MOMENT
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RK
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 04:33 PM |
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The big car manufacturers hate people building kit cars. If they could get their way, it would all stop. The power of some people is staggering, and
when they want, they try to squash the rest of us like bugs. You are living in a place that is unique in the world, where the government more or less
understands your hobby. You have to find a way to make it continue, and IVA is a compromise in my view.
In our country, two provinces have banned right hand drive vehicles, citing insurance stats showing a higher rate of accidents. Obviously, when the
market is young idiots with JDM rockets, accidents occur. A financial decision became a political one, when the safety of the population had nothing
to do with the ban. And in another province, it is against the law to modify your car in any way that could increase its performance (no cold air
intakes, etc). So bite your tongue, and keep your system going!
Do you want to be allowed to build cars or not? Simple.
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Wadders
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 05:09 PM |
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Originally posted by interestedparty
.
And the brake balance test, they have got a point there, it simply can't be tested on a road or in an MOT station, because neither of those can
check at all the different pedal pressures, which simulate braking on a wet road, for instance. To set brake balance properly would take an expert
with plenty of different surface roads at his disposal where it doidn't matter if he had a spin.
Guess i must just have been lucky then?
Originally posted by interestedparty
Anyway, back to the topic, there is much about the IVA that I don't like, but it bothers me when people try to avoid it, and then show contempt
for the rest of us describing us as sheep etc.
Don't take it personally, i quite like sheep, nice with a bit of mint sauce and gravy
Thing is, all this talk of safety and 'horrors of cars' which would get on the road without IVA, just makes me laugh. I really don't
recall a raft of accidents occuring due to dangerous home built vehicles before SVA was introduced, we got along just fine with the obligatory Mot
And i don't subscribe to the argument that cars back then were not as fast, and therefore less dangerous. A) anything with a 7 litre engine will
be fast and B) cars built with modern running gear and tyres are bound to handle much better.
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interestedparty
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 05:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
.
And the brake balance test, they have got a point there, it simply can't be tested on a road or in an MOT station, because neither of those can
check at all the different pedal pressures, which simulate braking on a wet road, for instance. To set brake balance properly would take an expert
with plenty of different surface roads at his disposal where it doidn't matter if he had a spin.
Guess i must just have been lucky then?
I guess you must have been, what's with the pokey tongue? Just because you were lucky doesn't mean that cars should no longer get tested,
does it? I didn't realise this thread was just about you and your experiences.
Anyway, we can have as many anti IVA threads as you like, doesn't changet he fact that most of us have to deal with it, and the others find a
way of 'avoiding' it.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Yazza54
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 06:04 PM |
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I think it's good that a amateur built car gets a thorough looking over before appearing on the public highway. After all, cars are basically
100+ mph killing machines in either the wrong hands or the wrong quality of build. However isn't that what an MOT is for?
The IVA strikes me as a bit of a money maker, overly anal too.
At the end of the day though, it is what it is and I think it's better to abide by it than stick a car on a dodgy V5 and hope no one notices. I
wouldn't buy a car like that nor would I do it myself.
[Edited on 22/1/11 by Yazza54]
I'm unhappy cos I eat and I eat cos I'm unhappy
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Wadders
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 06:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
I guess you must have been, what's with the pokey tongue? Just because you were lucky doesn't mean that cars should no longer get tested,
does it? I didn't realise this thread was just about you and your experiences.
Wooo Put your handbag away fella, wasn't having a dig at you in any way, surely i can only relate to my own experiences?
Although i still stand by the opinion that no special equipment is needed to assess brake balance. I don't imagine many hillclimb and racing
cars have been on the SVA rollers, but they manage to stay on the track
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
Anyway, we can have as many anti IVA threads as you like, doesn't changet he fact that most of us have to deal with it, and the others find a
way of 'avoiding' it.
I didn't start an anti IVA thread, i simply stated what had prompted me to post, added my own thoughts on the matter and asked what other
peoples views on the subject were.
Nothing wrong with healthy debate, all part of lifes rich tapestry, and definately nothing personal, simply an opinion.
Al
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scootz
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 06:17 PM |
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What I do find a bit bizarre are the differences in tester-approach.
I often read on here about people getting pulled-up for minor stuff and being sent away to try-again. I've been present at a few SVA's
and it was the same tester every time. He basically kicked the tyres, swore a lot, told you what was wrong, allowed you to fix it, and if you
couldn't he would give you your ticket anyway so long as you promised to sort it when you got home!
That said, the cars I went with were VERY well sorted and I got the impression that he would give you short-shrift if you turned up with a pile of
poo!
Unfortunately he's retired!
It's Evolution Baby!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 06:33 PM |
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For me, the SVA (as was) was an incentive to get stuff done properly - I didn't find the rules onerous, though some were tough to get
through.
Hopefully most people here will admit that most kit cars that get through SVA/IVA these days are far superior to many that were produced before
testing. The tests also weeded out a few manufacturers who turned out some very ropey kits. I must admit that I have seen a few older kit cars
(pre-SVA) at shows, and thought that they should never have been allowed on the road... some of them were downright scary...
I guess some people will disagree with me - but I shan't lose any sleep over that.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 22/1/11 at 07:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I see fat lazy people who gorge themselves on junk food which costs massively more than sensible food.
This is the land of milk and honey my friend!
Sorry no. There's been a few times that my shift pattern has called me to work 8 straight days, so I prepared for this by buying an apple and a
twix/mars/similar for afternoon and evening for those 8 days. So 16 apples and 16 mars bars.
Chocolate cost me about £4, apples nearly a tenner!
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