D Beddows
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| posted on 14/11/11 at 09:19 PM |
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Oh not not 'car design by internet forum' again  it NEVER works lads and it's been tried several times on here as well as
elsewhere (wasn't there a forum to design a new Caterham or something a few years ago?? did they end up all killing each other in the end lol?)
It all starts with great enthusiasm then develops almost instantly into a big row about something really trivial like wheel diameter and goes rapidly
downhill from there. Don't do it 
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clairetoo
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| posted on 14/11/11 at 09:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
Anyone else think a MK2 MR2 would make a great donor for a middy Locost?
170BHP (or 240BHP turbo'd) and cheap as chips.
The newest ones are getting on for 15yrs old but there are literally 1000's of them out there.
Solid mechanicals but many starting to get ropey on the body these days, so ideal 
They're 1200kg std and no slouch, so would be great in 600kg Locost form
A slight flaw in that plan.......any design based on an out of production 15 year old car couldnt have more than five years life - much better to pick
a car thats been around for a long time , and if possible still being made today .
But...........modern cars only seem to have a production life of 2 or 3 years these days , and proper old fashioned scrap yards are dying out . Add to
that the scrappage scheme took thousands of ten year old cars off the roads .
Now I think about it , this aint so simple 
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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Nickp
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| posted on 14/11/11 at 09:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
Anyone else think a MK2 MR2 would make a great donor for a middy Locost?
170BHP (or 240BHP turbo'd) and cheap as chips.
The newest ones are getting on for 15yrs old but there are literally 1000's of them out there.
Solid mechanicals but many starting to get ropey on the body these days, so ideal
They're 1200kg std and no slouch, so would be great in 600kg Locost form
A slight flaw in that plan.......any design based on an out of production 15 year old car couldnt have more than five years life - much better to pick
a car thats been around for a long time , and if possible still being made today .
But...........modern cars only seem to have a production life of 2 or 3 years these days , and proper old fashioned scrap yards are dying out . Add to
that the scrappage scheme took thousands of ten year old cars off the roads .
Now I think about it , this aint so simple
I know, I know, there's no longevity in it but I still reckon it'd be a good basis for a 'midi'
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 14/11/11 at 10:18 PM |
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Maybe the design could incorporate the idea that a vehicle that's plentiful today might not be easy to find tomorrow, thus if anyone was going
to do a book like this I reckon they should have adjustments for donors ranging from a corsa/punto/etc to mondeo/saab/vectra and so on.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 14/11/11 at 11:42 PM |
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Thing is the MR2 engine is still in production, as is the gearbox, and all the parts are still available from dealers fairly cheaply, and a variation
of it is still available today giving more and more options for a build.
If I hadn't gone nuts I'd have gone down that route, it's the obvious donor without a doubt.
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Nickp
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| posted on 15/11/11 at 08:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Thing is the MR2 engine is still in production, as is the gearbox, and all the parts are still available from dealers fairly cheaply, and a variation
of it is still available today giving more and more options for a build.
If I hadn't gone nuts I'd have gone down that route, it's the obvious donor without a doubt.
Glad you agree, even if you are nuts?!?
The MK3s are getting cheap now but I don't think the engines are as powerful (or reliable for that matter with bottom end issues). The 2.0 3SGE
is a cracking lump, especially in REV3+ form. What it lacks in torque it makes up for with a good top end 170BHP rush to its 7Krpm red line
In fact I've got some coilover bottoms that could easily be adapted so the MR2 hubs could be used. I think it could be based on the Haynes
chassis with the driving position and rear bulkhead moved forward to make room for the drive train. They also come with stonking big brakes from the
factory, no need for any fancy upgrades there
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hughpinder
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| posted on 15/11/11 at 11:33 AM |
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I'm pretty sure you could build a 'losost' midi, in the spirit of the Ron Champion book for 3k, even if you buy all the bits (used
where possible). I'm assuming you don't count tools! He wasn't try to get such a light car as people do now too.
When(if) I ever get mine built, and if its dynamically any good to drive, I'll donate the chassis plans and photos to this site. It wouldnt be
hard to adapt for pretty much any engine that's less bulky than a mondeo's zetec and box.
What Ron Champion didn't do, that most people seem to now is include any 'bling'.
No alloy wheels/expensive tyres.
No lightweight brake calipers
Standard engine - no major tuning
No digidash/expensive switches/expensive seats/trim
No roll cage/swirl pot+extra pumps+ catch tanks + modified sumps etc
mild steel exhaust(no cat then), reused seat belts
etc etc
'Uncle' Ron even seems to have re-used brake hoses and got his aly sheet by cutting up scrap transits etc.
The steel for a locost midi, assuming you buy full lengths of tube from a steel merchants, then scout for offsuts for the 3mm plate or buy just enough
from ebay is about £250-£300
Ally for floor+body panels £150
Donor mondeo 1.8 or 2.0 for engine/gearbox/induction side inc air box+exhaust manifold/driveshafts/rear wheel bearings/cable change/gear lever/fuel
pump+pipes, some hoses, handbrake lever, instrument panel + some switchgear, seat belts, exhast mout rubbers/cat/fan/expansion tank, hoses, heater
matrix+fan, ....£350, 150 back on scrap for the shell at present - 250 to refurb inc clutch..
mx5 front uprights+calipers/discs+rear caliperaa/pads/discks +refurb + wiper motor £170
steering column/cowl/wheel £100
rack + adapters...100
rad (new)+ hoses from scrap yard £80
shocks + spring - the most expensive bit £400
nuts and bolts, if you have a decent local wholesaler+scavenge from your donor £80
fibreglass bodywork - made yourself £400
brake master cylinder+fluid+resevoir +pipe/fittings and satndard non braded hoses from a motor factor £100
Clutch mc+ hydraulics from donor/included with brakes
throttle cable £10
trim materials - bench type seats £75
rivets, sikaflex, drill bits £50
lights £150
screen,wash, wiper controls (mx5? from scrappies) £125
fuel tank (pump/level transmiter etc) from donor. £125
exhaust/car £175
seat belts £0 - from donor
paint £50 (hammerite chassis)
SVA bits £50
bushes for suspension+ball joints...£80
build table £80
grille - modify from scrappies? 20
There you go - comes to about £3200!
Then later on you add the alloy wheels, tune the engine etc
Regards
Hugh
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luke
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| posted on 15/11/11 at 11:47 AM |
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I think it is truely possible to reduce cost by extending the build time. Im currently a final year Uni student and im building mine as and when i
have the cash flow available. I find keeping a close eye on ebay for the deals on parts is essential.
As for the price of steel i dont think its too bad, I bought my chassis as a pre cut kit off ebay for £200. Simply had to weld it together and create
a couple of bends. Now im onto brackets etc and steel from my local merchants is cheap if you wave cash and dont want a receipt. £5 for a 4 metre
length of 30x3mm flat last friday.
engine, gearbox and axle all second hand off ebay, wishbones and steering rack picked up from rally design at stoneleigh Vat free. Obviously as i get
on further into the build i will hit expense, IE seats, shocks, wheels, but by that time i will hopefully be working full time and have a better cash
flow.
As they say, patience is a virtue.
Luke
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Chris Ridgers
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| posted on 15/11/11 at 12:01 PM |
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La Bala
We still sell our LB1 chassis plans for anyone who is interested in locost mid engine car.
Based on MR2 donor, we just don't advertise it.
It's were the La Bala got it's roots from to grow to the LB2.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 15/11/11 at 02:32 PM |
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Have to agree with the above posts. The champion car was a VERY basic specification, no budget for seats for instance.
Ive certainly bided my time with my project(s) which both spreads and reduces the cost but ultimately I regard it as a hobby expenditure much like
going to the pub to watch football.
In terms of a locost midi, the Midlana project http://www.midlana.com/ is looking promising!
My Build Thread
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Alan B
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| posted on 15/11/11 at 05:12 PM |
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It seems a lot of you need to visit the mid-engine section more often. Many of us are building cars with transverse FWD powertrains mounted behind the
driver....mine's even a 3 seater...
As for the price of steel.....come on really guys, if that's a major stumbling block you may as well stop now because it doesn't get
cheaper for the rest of it....
Also agree with the design by commitee thing...complete waste of time. Some has to develop something and then offer it as plans or a kit...people then
like or not like it...but you can't design or build to suit every whim.
Alan
[Edited on 15/11/11 by Alan B]
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gottabedone
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| posted on 15/11/11 at 06:21 PM |
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For years the Locost design and mid engined layout have been like a pair of left handed gloves - they work on their own but not as a pair
There are a lot of well behaved front wheel drive cars out there - eg duratec Fiesta's and Focus'. So take 2 front end's put one in
the front and put one on the rear/mid complete with drivetrain - yes there may be geometry issues to consider but you have a known starting point.
I had a GTM Rossa with the K series - looking at it simply, it used Metro front ends front and rear and was a great car. Use a similar principle but
with a mass produced modern car.
Purists may have switched off already but using what already works saves re-inventing the wheel. There are loads of MX5 based 7's in the states
where they use the rear end - there is a weight penalty but for ease and using a tried and tested setup it's got to be worth it.
If you then want to shed weight from the heavier manufacturers suspension components then go for it at a later stage.
Just my thoughts..............
Steve
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 15/11/11 at 07:32 PM |
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Bit harsh that mate, circumstances beyond my control im afriad. I had to start again twice,
When I finish the car, and I will, I'm going to come round your house and do doughnuts out front for an hour.
You have unwittingly volunteered to be the first passenger in the mutated volvo powered car clubs flagship vehicle.
All in good fun
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
10 years collecting stuff for a build????????????????
IMHO. your car will never turn a wheel in my livetime, and im only 51 y's young
Build Blog
Build Photo Album
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 01:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
Bit harsh that mate, circumstances beyond my control im afriad. I had to start again twice,
Don't worry - he likes to spread doom and gloom assuming that anyone who doesn't start and complete within 6 months is doomed to fail
Apparently because I took 10 months to think about what I wanted and plan a few options my car will never turn in his lifetime either. All I can say
is he'll be dead a few times over at this rate
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Nickp
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 06:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
When I finish the car, and I will, I'm going to come round your house and do doughnuts out front for an hour.
Mmmmmmmmm doughnuts!! Can you come round ours when it's done too
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 09:14 AM |
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I can see it now towing a fairground fryed food stand behind the mutated volvo powered car club flagship vehicle round to all LCB members houses.
Doughnuts for everyone, or my personal favourite funnel cakes, if you don't know what they are google it.
quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
When I finish the car, and I will, I'm going to come round your house and do doughnuts out front for an hour.
Mmmmmmmmm doughnuts!! Can you come round ours when it's done too
Build Blog
Build Photo Album
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Nickp
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 09:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
I can see it now towing a fairground fryed food stand behind the mutated volvo powered car club flagship vehicle round to all LCB members houses.
Doughnuts for everyone, or my personal favourite funnel cakes, if you don't know what they are google it.
If you make it a diesel you can put the cooking oil in it to get home
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02GF74
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 03:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
I can see it now towing a fairground fryed food stand behind the mutated volvo powered car club flagship vehicle round to all LCB members houses.
Doughnuts for everyone, or my personal favourite funnel cakes, if you don't know what they are google it.
Is googling that work safe? sounds like a euphanism for a lady's doofer 
..... going back to the original post, building kit cars has more or less died on this forum - when I was finishing mine, there were tons - or it
seems tons - of kits being built - MK Indy, Avons, GTS Panther and SVAs were happening almost on a weekly basis - it did go mad a bit in the run up
to IVA.
since that time it has been very quiet, maybe 3 or 4 IVAs in 2 (?) years than I can think, except for wotshisname who buys kit cars and then sells
them after 2 days (re: V8 formula 27). 
[Edited on 16/11/11 by 02GF74]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 03:47 PM |
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quote:
maybe 3 or 4 IVAs in 2 (?) years
Really? I've not been here long and I've seen a good few IVA passes and more IVA fails so I guess that's not quite right?
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D Beddows
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 04:12 PM |
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One of the problems I see is that people want to build cars that are too complicated/expensive for them to finish - back at the begining you dropped
your xflow or pinto in (or if you were really adventurous a Fiat twin cam!) bolted the carb on, fiddled with the dissy a bit and you were away. Now
people more often than not seemingly want 'twin injector sequential ignition water injection twin turbo 400bhp engines' which tbh
they're never going to get going - or at least not this decade and for under £5K anyway. Same with suspension, brakes etc etc it all has to be
as complicated as possible and it really really doesn't need to be.
Although it pains me somewhat to say it, if someone brought out a book with all the plans to build a 7 alike from an MX5 (I know there is the Keith
Tanner one but it's more a suggestion than a guide) where you could just drop all the donor parts in with minimal fuss then I think more people
would start building Locosts again. It wouldn't take long for people to start trying to make it something it isn't with their 'twin
injector sequential ignition water injection twin turbo 400bhp engines' but that's just human nature I suppose
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trextr7monkey
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 04:43 PM |
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Maybe a bit of a tangent but if you take a look at Coozers 4 x 4 build it is gonna be a monster, fun to drive on and off road and a great chance to
practise the locostbuilders mentality and skills. Well wortha thought ;D
atb
Mike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14016102@N00/ (cut and paste this dodgey link)
Our most recent pics are here:
http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p211/trextr7monkey/
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theduck
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 05:14 PM |
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Some people may not build these locost anymore, but I certainly will be! I'll start a thread once I am further along but will e well under £2k
by the time it first see's track!
Buying part built for the win
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 05:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
In terms of a locost midi, the Midlana project http://www.midlana.com/ is looking promising!
Yes looks great, what is needed is the book/plans to allow people to copy it, but this depends on how it handles not much weight up front (mind you
early F1's where like that and handled rather well!).... Best route is defiantly Haynes they have a good reputation, and experience..
Also like the idea of a midi like the GTM using two FWD subframes with a ladder frame chassis, but this will have a short life span due to the quick
turn over of donner cars, a midlana on the other had can probaly be adpated though time much as the locost has...
Agree with a lot of the comments, builds have a lot of bling totally not required for a cheap fun car (but each to there own)..
Dan
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 16/11/11 at 06:47 PM |
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quote:
Now people more often than not seemingly want 'twin injector sequential ignition water injection twin turbo 400bhp engines' which tbh
they're never going to get going - or at least not this decade and for under £5K anyway. Same with suspension, brakes etc etc it all has to be
as complicated as possible and it really really doesn't need to be.
Don't think I've seen anything on this site that I would classify as even close to cutting edge, pretty much everything I've seen
here has been fairly agricultural and basic (and rightly so). Sure people have tried to fit newer engines with the electronics that go with that and
some to bump the power up a lot, but none of that's hard to do, or overly complex, just a bit more costly. As you say though, I guess it's
just human nature. I wouldn't build a book locost because they're (no offence intended to anyone) a dime a dozen and people like to do
things a bit differently. This is why anyone with any soul left and spare cash doesn't make do with a tin top in standard form - something has
to change, somewhere, even if it's invisible.
[Edited on 16/11/11 by coyoteboy]
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 10:18 AM |
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I see the biggest change on here as being the demographic.
When I joined, the average age would have been well above forty, and they built their own chassis and suspension, in fact most of the car. The average
age now seems to be in the mid twenties, or maybe less. Could be the forum has become populated with a lot of dreamers, and not doers?
Nowdays, the talk is more of 'which kit to buy', and they want it nearly, if not all, complete.
More seem to be buying second hand than willing to build.
Cheers,
Nev.
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