jwhatley
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 09:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
What generation charger is it? If 5th generation not much you can do but a third generation will respond well to porting.
The m90 ported 3rd generation on my DB7 gets up to 40 degrees on a pretty poor charge cooler, whatever you do without getting that inlet temp right
down you are wasting your time, water injection is just a plaster.
Regards Mark
You want methanol injection for charge temp lowering, it is better than water.
Water is more effective in dropping the igniton temperature allowing you to run more advance due to a cooler combustion temp. And superheated water
can produce the same sort of power in combustion provided the temperature of detonation is controlled.
Methanol effectively increases the octane level of the air but also drops intake temps. Does the same thing but is more effective but costs more
obviously.
I run 60:40 mix on my setup. Dropped temps by 15c at WOT.
Steve - I'll send you some pictures of the charger cooler setup I used. I think it will atleast help intake temps.
Thing is though, because your running TB pre charger, your creating so much heat by using the charger as a vacum pump when the throttle isn't
fully open. An ITB setup with recirc will help it a lot too.
[Edited on 10/8/14 by jwhatley]
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Sierra
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 09:27 PM |
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What exactly would I need to make it work with itbs as you say, and rough cost.
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jwhatley
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 09:41 PM |
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All depends how handy you are.
You can get an inlet manifold plate and build your own manifold to fit an 45mm ITB set. Then all you would need to do was build a plenum, or just
modify the one you have to fit to the TB's.
If you have money, you could buy it all direct from jenvey for example.
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Sierra
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| posted on 10/8/14 at 10:34 PM |
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I think I'll start with cooling this setup first, one because of space but mainly due to costs.
I can't even begin to imagine what the inlet temps were when the air filter induction was 5 times the length and behind the radiator. Funny
thing is it was rolling road at 175bhp back then 
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Sierra
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| posted on 11/8/14 at 02:04 PM |
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Does anyone know what this is?
I found it next to the oil filter and it was disconnected
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adithorp
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| posted on 11/8/14 at 02:07 PM |
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Thats an oil presure sensor.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Sierra
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| posted on 12/8/14 at 10:22 AM |
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Many thanks. I've connected it back up, but worrying why it was disconnected.
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adithorp
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| posted on 12/8/14 at 01:47 PM |
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Probably just knocked off when changing the oil filter.
Did the gauge work before? Does it now? Is the presure OK?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Sierra
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| posted on 12/8/14 at 02:39 PM |
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Yes all ok 
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Sierra
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| posted on 13/8/14 at 02:42 PM |
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So I couldn't resist and had to take apart my car just to see how it was setup.
Just after the tb but before the sc there's a small chamber so I could inject the water meth there. Some say that it doesn't work as well
straight into the tb. I was thinking that I could possibly have a second jet in the plenum after the sc aswell, that should surely keep temps down.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 13/8/14 at 03:52 PM |
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If you want a lot more whine and a little more power block up the silencer holes, the small triangles
ITB's will not give you any more power, just add complication to that setup, it just blasts air into that box then straight into the head so you
have potential to intercool with a matrix between either the charger and box
[Edited on 13/8/14 by mark chandler]
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Sierra
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| posted on 13/8/14 at 07:10 PM |
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I have been doing some reading on porting the m45, making the large triangle slightly larger and blocking the 2 smaller silencer triangles.
There's a big debate whether this actually does anything, some say temps go down and boost increases some say it does nothing.
A localish machine shop said they can weld a plate over covering both silencer ports and it will be welded along the edge. They didn't want to
weld straight over the Ali as they said it will probably distort. All in would be around £100 if I can dismantle the rotors from the casing.
Now that I've removed all I could even squeeze a m62 with a bit of work, would that be worth it more than playing around with the m45?
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jwhatley
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| posted on 13/8/14 at 07:29 PM |
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ITB's will give more power.
How the setup is at the moment requires more hp to drive it.
When the TB is open it's generating boost and using hp in the process, when it's closed it's using hp as it's being used as a
massive vacum pump. Which created more heat and saps away more hp due to increased intake temps.
If you use ITB's you can run recirc which will effectively allow it to run in free air, and require less power to drive it
[Edited on 13/8/14 by jwhatley]
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Sierra
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| posted on 13/8/14 at 07:55 PM |
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Does the bypass valve I have fitted not work in a similar way by recirc back to tb
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jwhatley
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| posted on 13/8/14 at 08:29 PM |
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Not really as your just recirculating hot air and making it hotter.
If the tbs were after the charger you could recirc fresh air back through to cool the charger.
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Sierra
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| posted on 14/8/14 at 11:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ettore bugatti
An intercooler would work, but my napkin calculations only suggests that will only give 10% extra power at your current boost.
Out of interest; what is your exhaust setup?
I'm not too sure what exhaust it is but they had to put a fan directed straight to it on the Dino as it started glowing red
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mark chandler
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| posted on 15/8/14 at 12:49 PM |
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Sorry, I should have said itb's with that charger will not give you more power, lose the charger and I expect you will gain.
M45 is small, an m60 would be more suitable, porting works best on gen3 chargers and earlier, do not weld up the silencer ports as the charger is made
to close tolerances and it will distort. Gen 5 are pretty good out the box for port sizing.
Look in my archive for DB7 for more pictures, my car with m90 was rated at 335bhp although most struggled to make 300bhp, ported charger and exhaust
reduced 30mph to 90mph in third from around 15 seconds to less than 9 seconds, on the rolling road 378bhp with torque over 300lb/ft from 2000rpm to a
peak of 375lb/ft @ 4800 rpm so more than 25% improvement everywhere! The exhaust just eased above 5000rpm.
Removing the threaded casting and pay attention to the wide end for smooth airflow, the vanes push the air this way.
From this
 
Eaton supercharger -3
To this
 
blocked ports
To close the ports you need to make a plate to cover the area then epoxy in place, you then use epoxy mixed with Ali filings to backfill from where
the rotors go.
It does make a difference I promise you, and remove casting flashing.
You tube
http://youtu.be/v4OfO40D72w
It did not whine like this with silencers open, inlet never got above 40 degrees, and it was a hot day in a sealed room.
[Edited on 15/8/14 by mark chandler]
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Sierra
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| posted on 15/8/14 at 01:04 PM |
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I suppose I've got a choice of upgrading all for more power or enjoy the car as it is. It's not like it's slow, it is very quick and
drives very well with constant power.
I'd be a bit worried using epoxy incase bits of it come apart and end up where it should be.
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Sierra
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| posted on 19/8/14 at 06:57 PM |
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Small update!
I've decided to take the crazy step and start to upgrade my current setup. I've dismantled my current supercharger setup and purchased an
eaton m64. I got it today so took it apart to check over it and started to offer it up in the car. I still need to buy an inlet plenum, intercooler,
pipe work and a lot of custom work.
As you can see there's not much room at all and I'm already starting to think I've gone beyond my basic abilities.
I really don't know how I'm going to mount it to keep it secure.
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 19/8/14 at 07:21 PM |
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Would it be possible to mount the Eaton on the other side of the engine/ above the exhaust and than rout the compressed air through a front mounted
intercooler into the engine?
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Sierra
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| posted on 19/8/14 at 07:52 PM |
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I did look at the exhaust side but there isint much room there at all, the alternator is currently there but that's not an issue.
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jwhatley
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| posted on 19/8/14 at 08:04 PM |
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Try and get hold of the outlet pipe from the mini, thats a strange shape and you can cut/modify it to your boost pipes.
BMW MINI COOPER S Supercharger Intercooler Inlet Intake Charge Boost Pipe 01-06
Can you not run the outlet of the charger downwards? then route it past the belt, in to the IC and then back up along the top to the plenum, look how
the outlet comes out on this MX5 kit bellow in the pics. surely you could achieve the same?
This is a kit you can get the MX5 retrofit:
![]()
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Sierra
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| posted on 19/8/14 at 08:16 PM |
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The mini outlet wouldn't work as the outlet on the m64 is larger. I currently have the m45 aswell but they don't match up at all. I was
going to swap the snouts around as I need a 65mm pulley and that's what's on the m45.
Also that way it would eliminate the clutch on the m64 which I need to get rid off.
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jwhatley
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| posted on 19/8/14 at 08:19 PM |
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Why not intercool the M45 setup then? With a small pulley and IC you should be able to get 8-10 psi boost which is plenty for a standard engine.
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Sierra
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| posted on 19/8/14 at 09:02 PM |
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Size wise there's not much at all in it, in fact overall length the m64 is smaller due to a small snout.
I been doing a lot of research into the 2 chargers and to produce the same boost the m45 has to be worked a lot harder therefore produces a lot of
heat.
Also by doing the m64 it gives me options to upgrade engine parts at a later date and still have a more powerfull charger that can cope better.
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