David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 07:11 AM |
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The important thing to remember about Westfield and Caterham is that you pay for that good customer service - all those people on the end of the phone
have to be paid for, and that's factored into the cost of the kit.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the others, though...
David
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procomp
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 07:32 AM |
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Hi altho if you were to buy the basics from westfield Ie the chassis the body work and suspension witch IMHO is verry good value for monney and then
build the rest of it as you would any other locost as long as you did a good job you would have a car with a higher resale value and one that didnt
have all these small problems that the likes of mk-luego-gts seem to have.
Oh and the handeling is just a bit better aswell.
cheers matt
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 07:54 AM |
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like I said the kit car companies are like some conspiracy thing
I scratch your back you scratch mine
the mags write about sales being down in 2006 the reason sales are dwon in 2006 is because the customer service is shite
and people are catching onto it
there to scared to write it though as the companies pay for adverts
it needs someone to do an article whos not scared of upsetting and start getting the truth out
also if someone else started a 7 manafacturer company but had fantastic customer service/fair priced kit they would run the show !!!!!!!!
ta
chris
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procomp
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 08:18 AM |
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Hi thats exactly what happens with the mags witch is why even when they report on a pile of s**t if they are an advertiser it still gets a glowing
report.
Think about it have you ever seen a report in either of the mags that says this car is c**p and dosent handle. No they let the poor punters find
that out for themselfs after they have spent all there hard earned cash.
And i am not aiming that at any company inpaticular just the mags.
cheers matt
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 08:25 AM |
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we need the top gear of kit cars
top gear is a bit biased but at least they take the wee out of things
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DarrenW
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 08:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
The important thing to remember about Westfield and Caterham is that you pay for that good customer service - all those people on the end of the phone
have to be paid for, and that's factored into the cost of the kit.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the others, though...
David
That is a very fair point David. The customer does ultimately pay for the high overheads of the better companies. I think what is needed here is a
happy balance between the two. Mistakes will get made and will be tolerated, we are after all mostly buying from the cheaper end of the industry. i
think all we ask in return is for a fair attempt at customer service and some basic systems to be in place to allow orders to be tracked and at least
a courtesy call if something goes wrong.
Here is an admission for you I consider myself to be a fair engineer. Iam now a Project Manager and pride myself on keeping control of the projects
and effective communication. HOWEVER, if i set a company up and thrust myself into the dizzy world of MD (ie coffe maker, cleaner, telephone operator,
buyer, HR, finance controller, logistics manager etc etc etc) then to be quite honest i doubt if i would be better than most of the current
manufacturers. I dare bet i would be ranked in the top 3 or 4 for most business disciplines but certainly not better.
Its not easy running any business so this is where careful attention to basic systems is needed.
At least i can honestly say iam happy with my main supplier, even to the point where ill run into a burning building for them And yes they do
occasionally make the odd small faux pas, its how its handled that counts.
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iank
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:06 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
like I said the kit car companies are like some conspiracy thing
I scratch your back you scratch mine
the mags write about sales being down in 2006 the reason sales are dwon in 2006 is because the customer service is shite
and people are catching onto it
there to scared to write it though as the companies pay for adverts
it needs someone to do an article whos not scared of upsetting and start getting the truth out
also if someone else started a 7 manafacturer company but had fantastic customer service/fair priced kit they would run the show !!!!!!!!
ta
chris
The only point I disagree on here is that this is anything new. The crap customer service and car mags that say good things about almost everyone
have been around for at least 30 years and probably longer.
The magazine review problem is something that all the specialist press suffer from where there is a limited pool of advertisers. If you read
carefully you can sometimes pull out a 'code' from what seems like a positive review. "Brakes were obviously new and not bedded
in" or similar used to mean "death trap" for example.
There is a real problem (wrong word - reality?) now unfortunately where the SVA has forced the industry to improve it's product quality and
prices have had to increase. This causes the crap customer service to seem even worse because customers are putting a lot more money on the table and
naturally have higher expectations.
I've always believed the real problem is that most of the manufacturers are set up and run by people who like cars and engineering far more than
they like selling things, human nature does the rest unfortunately and they concentrate on the wrong things for long term success and survival.
The big boys got a talented sales and marketing guy/gal on board quickly to deal with that side of the business while the 'boss' played
around improving current models and designing the next one.
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:08 AM |
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I've had the idea's in the past that I'd be able to run a kit manufacturer quite well - I have a fair idea of what new entrants into
the market want and the level of service/options as well. I'm a commercial manager who knows that margin and profit are the lifeblood of a
company, and that comes from customer loyalty through good service.
What I'm not is an engineer, so I wouldn't have the first idea about manufacturing the cars in the first place (although most seem to be a
variation of the book chassis anyway).
I've noticed on Totalkitcar.com that the ST Locoblade project is for sale though...
PS - Westfield may seem expensive for their normal kit packages, but it's entirely new parts and comes in phases designed to help the novice
builder. If you go for the signle donor version (now based on the MX5), it'll cost about £7,000 plus the donor. About the same as I'm
building my MK for.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
The big boys got a talented sales and marketing guy/gal on board quickly to deal with that side of the business while the 'boss' played
around improving current models and designing the next one.
They also have receptionists, office staff, possibly a QA manager, and so on.
David
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iank
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
quote:
Originally posted by iank
The big boys got a talented sales and marketing guy/gal on board quickly to deal with that side of the business while the 'boss' played
around improving current models and designing the next one.
They also have receptionists, office staff, possibly a QA manager, and so on.
David
Yes, but they tend to be brought in by the guy who understood how to be successful in business. 
IIRC Caterham were a car sales company so probably understood customer service who then became a manufacturer almost by accident when ColinC got bored
with the 7. So atypical in the industry really.
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:24 AM |
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That's how Westfield started too - a bloke living at Westfield Cottage made a business out of restoring classic cars and selling them - got his
mits on an old clapped out Lotus 7, rebuilt it and sold it. Someone else asked him to do another for them, and the rest is history.
You have to start out as a customer oriented business that makes cars to their spec, not just making cars that you like that someone else may want to
buy (and should think themselves lucky for being allowed to buy!)
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:27 AM |
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Dare I mention that I have always been happy with the customer service and supply times from Tiger! I know that quite a few people have had a
different opinion of their experience with them (and leaving aside any issues with the kit itself!) but mine has been positive - so far....
As far as customer service goes, I have always had replies to my technical queries dealt with speedily. Any orders have been delivered on time and
complete. I have never had to try for days to make contact, there is always someone there to answer the phone..........
BTW - did you know that a lot of the Tiger chassis were made by Luego before they recently changed hands?
[Edited on 14/9/06 by DaveFJ]
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Hellfire
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 11:53 AM |
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And that's the problem Dave. Different people have different experiences and expectations when it comes to customer service. You always hear bad
things about the kit manufacturers when they haven't delivered / lived up to expectations but you seldom hear and indeed would get bored of
hearing about all the times that kit manufacturers exceed expectations.
I'm talking about all kit manufacturers here and not any one in particular. I've heard good and bad about them all - thats life
Phil
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 12:10 PM |
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I disagree entirely - you do hear the good stuff about manufacturers as well. That's why I chose the MK, purely based on what people have to
say about the cars and the people.
However, when you pay a lot of money out, do you regard good service as a bonus or as what you have paid for?
The kit industry has a garden workshop image, but is charging full prduction line prices - there's a lot of choice about (especially for 7 type
cars) to the manufacturers need to raise the game a little!
Maybe my expectations are a little too high and I should just fork out my hard earned savings and keep quiet when I'm not happy.
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iank
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 01:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
...
However, when you pay a lot of money out, do you regard good service as a bonus or as what you have paid for?
The kit industry has a garden workshop image, but is charging full prduction line prices - there's a lot of choice about (especially for 7 type
cars) to the manufacturers need to raise the game a little!
Maybe my expectations are a little too high and I should just fork out my hard earned savings and keep quiet when I'm not happy.
I think it's fair to complain when you aren't happy with the service, but there is very little room to 'raise the game'
Think about it this way.
How much labour and material cost is there in a Kit? (answer is, I believe, quite a lot). How many do they sell a year? (<50 for most I'd
guess, maybe 100 for MK?)
The price however is set by what the market is prepared to pay and by how much the competition are charging.
So the overall profit isn't really very much, certainly not enough for lots of support staff, so everyone in a halfway popular company is
working lots of hours just to keep treading water. So they get grumpy, and start forgetting things.
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 02:26 PM |
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Well, MK's latest brochure says 250 cars a year, which is reaching fairly decent proportions!
I think we've gone quite a bit off topic by now, but it's fairly obvoous that people aren't happy with the level of service they
recive, but are willing to accept it because thats the way it's always been.
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pawgrp
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 02:39 PM |
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i spoke to baz today and the paddle shift system will be getting an all day test at donnington tomorrow and if it performs ok then it will be getting
made in quantity. i get the feeling that the guys will be happier about selling it after its had some proper shakedown.
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 02:46 PM |
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Now I'm p****d off then!
I bought and paid for it with my kit in May and have been expecting it since then, and had been appreciative that peopple were on holiday etc.
Now I find out they're not even ready to sell it to people yet.
I'd have rather saved the £150 I paid for it and got one from somewhere else.
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cryoman1965
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 03:08 PM |
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WHAT ARE PEOPLES EXPECTATIONS OF CUSTOMER SERVICE?
If i pay £2495 for a kit and get told my collection date, i expect ALL of the kit to be ready.
Not be missing pedals, wishbones and uprights, get told they will be in the post Monday and there not. Three phone calls and four weeks later they
arrive.
Since then i have always used MAC# 1 for any parts required and there service has been good, however i sure they dont get it right everytime.
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 03:12 PM |
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For me it's not all about getting the stuff on time - the things I'm waiting for won't be needed for a while.
It's about communication - I bought a paddle shift system on the basis that I could have it when it's made, I've been waiting a
while and made a few phone calls etc. and been understanding about people being on holiday etc. Now I find out the thing I've bought
hasn't even been fully developed yet.
If they'd said that at the time, I'd have held off and waited and wouldn't be as pissed off as I am.
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ch1ll1
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 03:57 PM |
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if you are to buy something that is not yet made then you should be told where you stand !
and yes building cars is our hobby , but all the kit makers its not a hobby its a job were they earn very good money !
you dont go to tesco and pay for your milk and receive it next week do you !
not sure how to cure this problem ! ( is there an answer?)
but the only way i see is if they bleep me about i wont use them ever again,
i wont slag the firm off like some do !
but i might give out my opinion
[Edited on 14/9/06 by ch1ll1]
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 04:09 PM |
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maybe the problem isn't the manufacturers but the customers. If your customers are hard to please, you have to try harder. If the accept the
blows because we're all mates together in this hobby, then why would you bother to get better?
Innfairness, I get the impression that a lot of firms started out as a few blokes who built a few cars and some other people wanted to buy them. The
problem is that now these firms are getting to the point where they can't operate like that anymore - time to use nasty phrases like
'supply chain analysis' 'customer support' 'brand image' etc.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 04:49 PM |
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I think that's it really. Most may have started as afew blokes, a shed and a mig welder. Suddenly they have to make 10 kits rather than 1 and
things start to get muddled up. Even more so if there's a few blokes. Bob answers the phone, takes a message for Dave, forgets and tells trev
down the pub later who mistakes it and orders a kebab instead! Or something like that.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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StevieB
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 04:57 PM |
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But like I said - if no-one makes any demands, there's no force for change. At the moment, it feels like you're buying a car from the
bloke down the pub, whereas it should be like you're buying from a business that wants you to get your goods and be satisfied enough to come
back for more later.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 04:59 PM |
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I know what you mean. When I think of a kit company I see a few blokes in a garage/workshop in oily overalls with grubby mugs of tea. What there
should be/needs to be is a bloke in a suit running the shop and not building them. He organises everything and tells the oily blokes what to do each
day.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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