mcerd1
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| posted on 16/2/16 at 11:41 PM |
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were to buy rivets ?
I need some extra rivets for my dax and I'd prefer to keep them as close to the ones that came with the kit as possible (so I don't need
to re-work out the grip lengths etc and mixing types would look silly)
The ones I've run out of are the 3/16" (4.8mm) big head ones - dome head that measures 15.7mm by 1.8mm thick
They seem to be alloy with an alloy mandrel and measure 16.8m long
I'm hardly finding anyone that lists ones even close to these - any suggestions?
Also if anyone can recommend a cheap air riveter that would help too - my hands are getting sore just thinking about the number of rivets I've
got left to do.....
[Edited on 16/2/2016 by mcerd1]
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 07:08 AM |
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4.8mm (x Choose Length) Extra Large Flange Head Open Alum Steel Blind Pop Rivets
any good? They giveall the dimensions (which seems a bit unusual)
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rdodger
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 07:32 AM |
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Have a look here
http://www.shop4fasteners.co.uk/
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hizzi
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 07:44 AM |
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clarik engineerin supplies, website and ebay
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mcerd1
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 08:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
4.8mm (x Choose Length) Extra Large Flange Head Open Alum Steel Blind Pop Rivets
any good? They giveall the dimensions (which seems a bit unusual)
I'd seen them, but they only seem to do steel mandrels...
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02GF74
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 09:52 AM |
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Alloy mandrel, this is the pin that splays the rivet?
Are you sure, test with magnet, ive never seen anything other than steel, im amazed that alloy (you mean aluminium alloy?) would be strong enough.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 11:12 AM |
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Yeah its definitely alloy (very light weight)
They seem to be common enough (maybe not from the usual highstreet places though) just the combination of the size and big head that I'm
struggling to find....
I believe that the steel mandrel type can be slightly stronger in shear (depending on the type) but the all alloy ones should have less of a problem
with corrosion (i.e. less dissimilar metal issues) and are lighter too (all though I'd guess it won't add up to much of a difference over
the whole car)
Also they are normally made from 7*** series alloys, which should be plenty strong enough
(easily a match for mind steel anyway)
[Edited on 17/2/2016 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 17/2/2016 by mcerd1]
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nick205
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 11:59 AM |
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I know the type you're after, but as above I've only ever seen pop rivets with steel mandrels - same for large head rivets as well.
I recall sourcing a box for my MK Indy build via ebay. IIRC they weren't expensive and as you comment, maintain the fit and finish of the car.
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40inches
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 12:49 PM |
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Not heard of ally mandrels, only steel or stainless. Can't see ally working, no matter what the grade! Would be happy to be proven wrong
Well! I take it back
 Ally Mandel
Rivets
[Edited on 17-2-16 by 40inches]
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 06:55 PM |
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Just a thought, but why not ask Dax?
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mcerd1
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 07:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
Just a thought, but why not ask Dax?
I would, but they've sold the rush off and I'm still not entirely sure what's going on with the bit that's left making cobras
- new address, new people etc....
I might try the new owners the rush, but they have totally reengineered the car (so I doubt it uses the same fixings) and I know they have there hands
full with launching this new version
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40inches
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| posted on 17/2/16 at 08:17 PM |
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"Well! I take it back
Ally Mandrel
Rivets"
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mcerd1
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| posted on 18/2/16 at 12:20 PM |
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I've been searching through the links above and some of them look promising
but I've also been having a close look at the rivets I've got just now and I'm starting to wonder if they are actually a
'multi-grip' type as well?
What do you guys think ?
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Theshed
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| posted on 18/2/16 at 04:26 PM |
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IMHO any blind rivet where the mandril is designed to fall out the back leaving just an aluminium tube in the hole is only suitable for non stressed
parts. These ordinary pop rivets are, in my view, complete crap.
For anything intended to last you need some sort of retained stem fastener. In these the broken bit of the mandril remains in the rivet and adds shear
strength. This also has the benefits of preventing corrosion through the little hole in the middle. You can get rivets where the back is sealed to
make then fluid tight.
There is every last type of material available. low end are aluminium/mild steel up to monel rivets with high grade stainless mandrils, titanium, you
name it.
My researches - and believe me I became obsessed - suggest that there are some very good commercial grades from the likes of Advel which can be used
with ordinary tooling and are reasonably priced have a look at these http://www.avdel-global.com/en/products/breakstem-fasteners/avexr.html
These will certainly be an improvement on the standard pop rivets. I must say that the rivet shown in the photo looks somewhat as if it is in the pop
rivet class.
These commercial rivets usually depend on friction to keep the mandril in place. This is fairly reliable but not perfect.
If you want a really decent long lasting solution, and have the money, the answer is from the world of aviation. Many aviation rivets need special
tools. One of the biggest and best manufacturers is Cherry have a look at this http://www.cherryaerospace.com/docs/catalogs/CA-1021.pdf
Cherry make a series of rivets called Cherrymax they can be installed with a hand gun or air riveter because the special tooling bit is found in what
looks like a small disposable washer on the stem. You can find these on E-bay particularly from the USA or Canada. They are not cheap but can be found
for about 10p each. Do not buy "Cherrylock" rivets by accident or you will need some very expensive tools!
Any rivet is only as good as the hole it fits. They need to be the right grip length or they just will not work. The hole needs to be the right size
and free of burrs. Drilling twice and de-burring is a must. Cleco pins are the answer to this.
Most people on here go for bonding with silcoflex or similar as well as rivets. That is almost certainly the way to go for a road car. With the cheapo
rivets people seem to be supplied with I doubt whether the rivets are doing much at all after a year or two - but for the bond they would have rattled
loose.
Anyhow lecture over - I think the Advel site has the rivets you need in some decent materials. Once you find the rivet you want it is easy to google a
supplier.
For pictures of rivets see my archive!!!! We all make mistakes.
If anybody needs any special tooling for rivets send me a U2U I have ammassed a pile of it and will lend against a sensible deposit.
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Theshed
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| posted on 18/2/16 at 04:34 PM |
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Just to add - quick search on fleabay turned up these
50 x Avdel Dome Head Rivets 3/16" Diam. Range 0.109"-0.203" Part AS46789 [P18]
These are excellent with 7075 ali retained stems. No special tooling required. Sorry I know they are not the size/ wide head type you are after but
they might suit other people. These are a million miles ahead of run of the mill pop rivets
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Theshed
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| posted on 18/2/16 at 04:41 PM |
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Now I am getting obsessed.....
Found these - super strong - forget the hand riveter on these Monel is as tough as old boots - useful size but narrow grip length (good for joining 2
x 1.6mm panels)
50 x CherryMax Rivet Monel Diam 5/32" Grip 0.126-0.326" Part CR4523-5-03 [W14]
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jacko
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| posted on 18/2/16 at 04:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Theshed
Just to add - quick search on fleabay turned up these
50 x Avdel Dome Head Rivets 3/16" Diam. Range 0.109"-0.203" Part AS46789 [P18]
These are excellent with 7075 ali retained stems. No special tooling required. Sorry I know they are not the size/ wide head type you are after but
they might suit other people. These are a million miles ahead of run of the mill pop rivets
The ones in your link are mono/bolts we use them at work but 6mm
Daisy rivets what look like pop rivets have a aluminium mandrill
jacko
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mcerd1
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| posted on 19/2/16 at 09:13 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Theshed
Most people on here go for bonding with silcoflex or similar as well as rivets. That is almost certainly the way to go for a road car. With the cheapo
rivets people seem to be supplied with I doubt whether the rivets are doing much at all after a year or two - but for the bond they would have rattled
loose.
Black PU adhesive is the answer as far as dax were concerned, even they told me the rivets aren't doing much as long as the PU is properly done
- besides its not like the old dax rush chassis is weak anyway...
as an update I've managed to find one more rivet in the box - that means I've got exactly the right number for the floor panels and
I'll probably use the ones that came with the kit here (as per the above they may not be the best rivets in the world, but they are tried and
tested in this application)
 
compulsory floor panel pic
 
my new favourite tool
all done with correct drill sizes (fancy cobalt ones with the right points for thin sheet), cleco's and a few British skin pins too - but the
spacer tool has to be my new favourite
but I will still need ~50 more (complete guess) to do the rear bulkhead - I don't believe this is structural on the dax as its a sheet of GRP
with a really big hole in the bottom for the diff nose - so my thoughts are that large flanged rivets that won't corrode easily would be best
for this - the larger flange is probably the most important bit here...
[Edited on 19/2/2016 by mcerd1]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 11:52 PM |
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Ok I take it back - the rivets have steel mandrels, all apart from the one I picked out the bag to measure......
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