paul v6
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 09:36 AM |
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Losing weight!!
I'm in the procces of gathering parts for my 2nd locost build and would like to minimise component weight where possible. Having an xr4x4
cologne and mt75 as the likely power plant/box i'm never going to be superlight but dont want a bloater!! Is it possible to lighten the cologne
to loose a few kg's?? Is IRS lighter than an axle?? would an aluminium floor compromise chassis strength??Any other areas I could shed a few
lb's?
Many thanks
Paul
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mookaloid
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 09:45 AM |
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It will be a bloater!
You can get more power from lots of engines most of which are considerably lighter.
This should be the first thing you should look at.
Cheers
Mark
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nick205
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 10:23 AM |
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I'd agree, the Cologne egine is an absolute hulk of a motor in terms of weight. A 2.0L zetec mated to the same box would give you more power
and seriuosly reduce weight.
On the other bits you mention, an ally floor is much lighter than a steel one and lots of kits including MK are supplied with ally floor panels. I
would have thought IRS must be lighter than live axle.
Other than that it's usually a case of save a little here and ther and look at the overal effect.
Cheers
Nick
PS - we won't make you change your username if you don't use a V6 motor 
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smart51
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 11:03 AM |
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I have to say it. If power and weight are your concern then concider a bike engine. A bike engine and gearbox, fully dressed weighs 80kg or so. a
dressed zetec and box will weigh more than twice that. Old 1 litre bike engine s make 150 BHP. Newer ones make 180. The power, the weight and the
wider usable rev band make the performace and handling unassailable to mere mortals.
A full 2.0 zetec with engine management, gearbox, clutch, starter etc will probably cost more than a good bike setup complete.
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iank
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 11:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
...
On the other bits you mention, an ally floor is much lighter than a steel one and lots of kits including MK are supplied with ally floor panels.
...
Cheers
Nick
The difference between a steel and ally floor isn't as much as you'd think. Since you use much thinner (1.2mm) steel compared to the 2mm
ally floors generally used.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=21928&page=3
goes into the swings and roundabouts.
ally comes out around 5-6 kg lighter, worth it for a BEC, a racer or for a non-welder, but probably not for a v6 road car (especially with a
cologne!).
As for the engine, what about a duratec v6 from a mundeo? you can get a donor, just for the engine, for a couple of hundred and I believe it will
just bolt up to the MT75.
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smart51
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 11:12 AM |
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Use high strength steel of smaller wall thickness and save some weight. I think you need to be a good welder though.
Aluminium is about the same weight as GRP for the same thickness but Ali sheets are usually much thinner.
Use ABS or Polypropyene instead of GRP or ali for cycle wings, inner panels etc as is is lighter still.
Smaller wheels and tyres often weigh less and steel wheels can weigh less than some alloys as alloys are cast and so thicker than rolled steel. You
could get rolled aluminium wheels at one point.
Use thinner aluminium for the floor panel under the seat as you won't be standing on that part. Use thicker Ali under the scuttle to hold your
weight when getting in / out.
Paint = weight. Polish that ali instead.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 12:12 PM |
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This thread reminds me of the classic Father Ted scene
"this toy cow is near"
"that cow in the field is far away"
"near"
" far -- away "
The V6 was built using ancient foundary methods using cast iron even if it were possible to cut the weight of a locost chassis and body by 25% it
won't make much of an impact on the weight of the completed car.
[Edited on 16/9/05 by britishtrident]
[Edited on 16/9/05 by britishtrident]
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paul v6
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 12:39 PM |
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Thanks guys!
Looks like I need a new engine, but I'll try to keep it a v6 purely so it sounds like a sports car
The bike engine would be ideal if the Mrs didnt want to drive it occasionally, having driven a busa powered dax rush I know how awsome they can be.
Paul
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nick205
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 12:49 PM |
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Paul,
Have you considered this 
Cyclone V8
 
Rescued attachment V8rearhigh.jpg
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paul v6
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 01:10 PM |
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In my dreams
Anyone any idea if the renault 3L V6 12v engine is any good?? I think its the lump from a saffrane??(excuse the spelling)
Paul
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 01:16 PM |
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The cologne engine is capable of some incredible power but it needs SERIOUS money thrown at it.
Had a freind a few years ago who was a Capri nut and spent almost £8000 on the engine alone - ended up with a supercharged bi-Turbo putting out over
600Bhp.  (he got a center spread in Fast ford mag)
But as I say it cost serious money. so your probably better off fitting a more modern engine like a Zetec or Vauxhall lump...
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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britishtrident
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 02:56 PM |
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Can v6 sound good ? to me a v6 just sounds like two four cylinders each mising on one cylinder. A straight 6 or a V12 is a different matter.
Story goes
Many years ago Mansel tried a Honda V6 powered F1 Lotus for the first time after the first lap he came back into the pits swearing it had blown up
--- "err no Nigel they run like that" :-)
Ok the Honda race engine had flat plane crank but -----
[Edited on 16/9/05 by britishtrident]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 03:25 PM |
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Dear Santa,
Please bring me a Cyclone V8 for Christmas.
I promise to be a good boy...
David
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G.Man
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 03:31 PM |
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That cyclone V8 must sound so sexy at 10,000 rpm
How much are they? Must be silly money I would guess?
The whole car weighs in at 650kgs tho, I am looking at less than that with my 350bhp cossie turbo...
[Edited on 16/9/05 by G.Man]
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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G.Man
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 03:37 PM |
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Sorry back to the thread...
Well you could use the full raceleda front uprights from MNR for a very reasonable £850 inc ally hubs, brakes etc etc..
Superleggera Wheels are 4.9kg each in 15x7 which will all save some weight where it really matters... unsprung...
Instead of the cologne v6, have you considered the 2.9 Cosworth? They can release some serious power with a small amount of work..
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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paul v6
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 04:46 PM |
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would a 2.2GT audi provide a decent donor for a weight consious build???
Paul
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britishtrident
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 07:13 PM |
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Figure out away to fit a counter clockwise engine and I have a very nice alloy block 2.3 Honda engine sitting in my drive way.
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paul v6
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 07:59 PM |
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Mmmm I'd love a Honda lump! but how to get around the direction problem???
Paul
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paul v6
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 08:20 PM |
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Is there a diff that will run upside down?????
But then there's box????????
[Edited on 16/9/05 by paul v6]
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stevebubs
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 08:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
That cyclone V8 must sound so sexy at 10,000 rpm
How much are they? Must be silly money I would guess?
The whole car weighs in at 650kgs tho, I am looking at less than that with my 350bhp cossie turbo...
[Edited on 16/9/05 by G.Man]
Last time I spoke to them, the V8 was around .£14,000 and the v16 £50,000
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stevebubs
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| posted on 16/9/05 at 08:39 PM |
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Cyclone V16
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 17/9/05 at 09:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
That cyclone V8 must sound so sexy at 10,000 rpm
How much are they? Must be silly money I would guess?
The whole car weighs in at 650kgs tho, I am looking at less than that with my 350bhp cossie turbo...
[Edited on 16/9/05 by G.Man]
£16000 at last look
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 17/9/05 at 11:02 PM |
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the v6 in the safrane , if its the 90 degree v6 is the PRV , so comes with a rwd gearbox from a volvo !! .
these engines were fitted to aplines and turboed so can produce upwards of 600 bhp for very little money .
not my cup of tea tho .
ill point you in the direction of some knowledgable chaps if necessary .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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