Johnny-Ace
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 01:34 PM |
|
|
Which type of welder??
What are the advantages of MIG over 'stick' welding?
I used to use oxy/acetylene and stick in my youth (HGV mechanic long time ago) and don't know anything about MIG/TIG.
|
|
|
|
|
David Jenkins
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 02:02 PM |
|
|
You'll see a MIG v. TIG discussion going on in the chassis section just now!
Basically, the tube we use is too thin to stick weld, unless you're very good.
TIG's too expensive, and tricky, but the results are as good as you'll get.
MIG's easiest, and works v. well, but can give you a result that looks pretty but is as effective as a chocolate teapot. Practice and some
destructive testing on scrap pieces soon cures this!
Have you considered using oxy-acetylene? I don't suppose there's much difference in cost of the kit, and may be good for you if you're
experienced. Chassis have ben made using gas welding.
cheers,
David
|
|
|
David Jenkins
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 02:03 PM |
|
|
Oh yes - I forgot - no slag to clean off with MIG!
DJ
|
|
|
Johnny-Ace
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 02:39 PM |
|
|
Cheers DJ
I'm seriously considering this Locost lark - especially when I hear words like X-flow and Carbs (music to my ancient ears).
I've been looking at one of these small DIY stick machines as I thought the price of Oxy/A kit nowadays would be scary.
What guage of steel are we talking for the chassis anyway? Would a small guage/low amp stick not do the job adequately?
Cheers
John
|
|
|
David Jenkins
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 02:59 PM |
|
|
Mostly it's 25mm square tube or 19mm round, with a wall thickness of 1.6mm (1/16", or 16swg).
If you can do it with stick, go for it - but I know I couldn't do it!! (I'm fairly good at stick-welding 3mm, but I reckon I'd blow too many holes
in this stuff)
You do have the clean-up problem, although the slag on a good weld should just click off as it cools (or can just be pushed off). When I stick weld I
have to hammer and wire-brush for ages! 
David
|
|
|
Johnny-Ace
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 04:08 PM |
|
|
The penny drops!
Aha! Point taken.
I'd be a birdshit welder on that gauge of steel too!
I see what you mean by the Oxy/A route though - could make a really nice job with that. I must browse around for prices of new/second-hand gear.
Many thanks for now
John
|
|
|
jonti
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 04:43 PM |
|
|
My friend, you cant be older'n me and I was dyed in the wool gas and/or stick. I'd never tried Mig until I got involved with lo-cost and, let me
tell you, if you can stick weld, you'll p*ss using MIG. Its so bloody easy even my six year old lad can glue his mecanno together with it. Wish I'd
had it years ago when I couldn't afford a gas set-up and was trying to weld my Anglia sills on with a stick. In desperation I even bought one of
those brazing attchments for it. all I got was hot brass down me neck !
OFROK
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 05:23 PM |
|
|
welders
I used a portapak for years but got fed up of being ripped off by BOC for gas. I used to stick weld in a foundry, ladles and castings etc. and I used
to use an evil machine called an arcair for cleaning heads off castings after burning with oxy-propane. I learnt to mig weld in an afternoon at home
and the portapak has stood redundant ever since. It's safer because there's less heat spread and not as much warping of panels, but it's not as
forgiving if you don't clean and get back to really good metal, but a chassis made of new tube is all good metal so it's ideal.
If you really want to arc weld Frost do a low amp welder which they claim will weld 20g with a 16g rod, but I am a sceptic on this.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
theconrodkid
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 06:37 PM |
|
|
i got an inverter from screwfix,its a modern arc and is so good i dont use my mig much these days,except for rusty old bangers.
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
|
|
|
Johnny-Ace
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 07:41 PM |
|
|
Inverter . . ??
Call me thick, but what the hell's an 'inverter'?
Seems like I've been away from this caper for too long! perhaps I'd be better with an Airfix kit. (suppose they're obsolete now too).
John
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 08:13 PM |
|
|
Its basically an arc welder that uses electonics to reduce the voltage and increase the amp and change to DC at the same time. The older type arc
welders us a transformer to do the same job but still retain an output of AC current. The old arc welders give an OCV (open circuit voltage) of about
48V which is why they can be a sod to cold start, rods sticking etc, the inverter gives about 90 OCV and start like silk. Even better using 7000
series rod instead of 6013 or similar, 16g. If you want good 6000 series rods, go for Satinex from BOC, they have good penetration and produce a
really smooth flat weld.
|
|
|
Johnny-Ace
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 08:22 PM |
|
|
Inverter
Any suggestions on makes/models, power outputs and, of course, prices would be greatly appreciated.
I don't want to scare my wife off before I even start!
John
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 08:50 PM |
|
|
Try this
A cheapy that just covers the spec's
|
|
|
Johnny-Ace
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 09:01 PM |
|
|
Cheers Mark!
I'll run that one past the boss/missus for consideration.
Terrific site by the way - and seems like a friendly bunch of nutters.
John
|
|
|
jonti
|
| posted on 14/3/03 at 10:40 PM |
|
|
mmmm nice piece of kit but, think on, you'd get a Mig for half that and probably less if you keep an eye on your local small ads. I paid £40 for my
140A Box. Plenty mucho for lo-cost work
OFROK
|
|
|
Browser
|
| posted on 15/3/03 at 11:47 AM |
|
|
quote:
I used to stick weld in a foundry, ladles and castings etc. and I used to use an evil machine called an arcair for cleaning heads off castings after
burning with oxy-propane.
Welding in a foundry? On ladles? Bloomin' feck, the rods you used must have shared dimensions with telegraph poles!
I spent 4.5 years employed at a cement works and once saw a contractor cutting mill plates with an arcair. What with the high amperage, sparks and
noise of compressed air it resembled a sort of controlled and focussed version of Hades if memory serves!
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 15/3/03 at 02:29 PM |
|
|
sort of controlled and focussed version of Hades
That's a good description. 150psi of air and a 3/4 carbon rod plus amps into 4 figures. We once used a thermic lance to cut a charge from the furnace
after it set due to an accident, that was brute force and ignorance for you. It needed an oxy-propane torch to light it.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
theconrodkid
|
| posted on 15/3/03 at 05:21 PM |
|
|
thermic lance?havnt used one of them since my bank robbing days!
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
|
|
|
jonti
|
| posted on 16/3/03 at 10:59 AM |
|
|
Thermic lances ? Oxy propane ? LUXURY !!!
We once had to cut the bottom off the Queen Mary, in deep shark infested water ! in winter ! using nowt but our teeth, brute force and an eclipse
hacksaw........all f' tuppence an hour an' no lunchbreak....... AND we were grateful !!!!
OFROK
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 17/3/03 at 10:35 AM |
|
|
It's got to be the mig then!!
Either that or spit.
yours, Pete
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
johnston
|
| posted on 17/3/03 at 10:40 PM |
|
|
used a stick for the first time 2day in work feckin 'ell mig much easier
|
|
|
