Moorron
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 posted on 14/9/06 at 09:24 AM |
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more power, i need more power
Hi lads.
Im still wondering what I should upgrade to for a winter project from my CBR1000F engined indy. I want more power and am currently trying to list all
my options.
So far I have these possible options:
1, Fit a more powerfull engine like the zx12, busa, R1.
2, Fit a more modern engine like the CBR1000RR and such.
3, Fit a turbo charged R1
4, try and make my own turbo charged CBR1000F.
They all have there pros and cons and im currently listing them. But in short heres a few of them:
1, not massivly more powerfull (50 bhp or less) then I have now, cost and sump mods to the first 2.
2, cost, injection mods ?, all need sump mods, lots of untested bits.
3, Reliability issues.
4, the unknown, but if no engine mods very cheap.
Any comments welcome, but I need some info on the last option.
As far as I know the turbo R1 has no engine mods is this true?. If it is can I assume that its just bunging a turbo onto a manifold, intercooler and
pressurized carbs to make it work? Fueling adjustments and plumbing the turbo into the oil and water systems.
Im trying to find out if its possible or atleast achievable on the CBR1000F engine. Its an old engine so will it take it (design wise not wear wise)
without stripping the engine as an r1 would b cheaper to do at that stage.
I wouldn’t say money is no object, but I don’t mind spending lots if the reward are as great as the cost. Lets say u had my car and £3000-3500 and
wanted more power, what would u do?
ps, no silly CEC cars either. 
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
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Gav
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:31 AM |
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ZZR 1400 is in that price range is it not?
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Moorron
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:33 AM |
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maybe for the engine but after modding it and sorting the other bits out its more like 4-4500 so allitle over the top (unless a cheap one comes along.
Still i like the idea of fitting such a new engine.
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
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Guinness
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:41 AM |
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Contact Jambojeef on here.
He has a CBR1000 that he has turbo'd using a turbo off a Rover and loads of other bits.
Not sure how he is getting on at the minute, but it was developing boost last time I saw him.
Cheers
Mike
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fesycresy
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:59 AM |
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A ZX12 would give you good bang for your money, that would be a sensible upgrade.
Speak to Holeshot about a turbo on an R1, could be a very expensive route considering the cost of engine plus conversion.
May have to alter the compression and uprate the head bolts ??
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The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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alanr
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 10:38 AM |
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why not just fit a nitrous kit - thats what I'm thinking of do to my MNR Blade
A
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TimC
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 10:53 AM |
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He's already got Nitrous.
I honestly don't know what to suggest. The difference between 130bhp and 200bhp = £Several thousand.
I'd speak to Holeshot, tell them how much BHP you want and start saving!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 11:13 AM |
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This might seem like a daft question but why do you want more power? Are you competing in some form of motorsport and lacking a bit in the power
department?
Phil
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iank
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 11:13 AM |
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Just had a peep at your photo archive, probably don't have a lot of scope as it doesn't look a bloater, but with care it's often
possible to shave off 20-30kg off even a light car with some thought and cash.
Freelander diff is much lighter than sierra
Carbon/Kevlar seat shells (e.g. Tillett) are lighter than Cobras (bin bag+foam racing seats are even lighter and cheap if you don't care about
looks)
Thinner ally floor, a lot of work, but could save a couple of kg for not much money.
the list of possibilities is endless. Saving weight not only improves BHP/tonne, but also handling and braking.
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Moorron
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 11:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
This might seem like a daft question but why do you want more power? Are you competing in some form of motorsport and lacking a bit in the power
department?
Phil
I dont compete, but after the initial breath taking feeling of the current car i adapted really quickly to its performance (in a straight line) and
now like anything i have i want to improve (i cant leave anything alone). Ive had a quick look into lightening the car, wheels, hubs, diff and seats
being the main bits. But i do like the look of the car as it is and will try and keep it thatway.
1st and 2nd gears are fine but after that i can feel the need for more power and i also want to up its top spead as its 115 at the moment so more
power is need so i dont loose acceleration.
i unerstand its not power, but bhp/tonne thats important, i think over the winter, and 2k i could make the car about 60kg lighter and still retain its
looks. But is it worth it over a 3k engine upgrade?
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 12:47 PM |
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if I already had a early cbr1000 motor and wanted an upgrade
I wouldnt go r1(which i had) I can imagine the difference being ok but not breathtaking
Id go bigger zx12r deffinetley
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alanr
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 01:21 PM |
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of cours you could try loosing weight !!!!!!!! - a lot cheaper (every stone is 14lbs)
A
its a route I should follow
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Moorron
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 01:55 PM |
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why is replacing the floor hard? is it not just jacking the car up, drilling the rivets out and refitting??? i dont know as i didnt build the car in
the first place. I can buy sheet from work so its cheap to do.
do they make siera alloy hubs?
can i replace the rear alloy panel with a carbon one is isnt it as strong?
R1 isnt much of a power hike, but is cheap and easy to do. im so confused which route to take lol
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
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G.Man
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 02:24 PM |
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MNR sell raceleda sierra alloy uprights hubs and brakes... save a rediculous amount of weight over the stock sierra items...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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TimC
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 02:37 PM |
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That floor is PROPERLY BONDED and RIVETED! I wouldn't touch that - I think it's pretty thin ally anyway - you've also only got the
driver/passenger compartments covered rather than the whole underside. i.e. the prop is exposed along it's length. You'd be wasting time
and money on that I reckon.
The problem you have is that you want it all - Extreme pace with comfort and the looks. It's hard and costly to do it all.
The thing about that car is that it's a compromise. It does most things very well imho.
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iank
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 02:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Moorron
why is replacing the floor hard? is it not just jacking the car up, drilling the rivets out and refitting??? i dont know as i didnt build the car in
the first place. I can buy sheet from work so its cheap to do.
You should get a job at Haynes writing their manuals 
Some problems with floor replacement:
Floors are normally fitted early in the build with the chassis inverted, not so easy when the car is finished and working from underneath.
Most people stick their floor on with PU adhesive (sikaflex, wurth etc) as well as rivets, this sticks really really well! If the chassis is
powdercoated it will rip it all off I suspect and isn't worth doing. If chassis is painted then it will probably require repainting.
Now you have to cut a new floor in thinner material (check the original is actually thicker before you start! ) not so easy if the current floor is
bent from being chiselled off.
Finally you have to drill the floor to match the holes in the chassis - again hard if the old floor is damaged.
Finally hold the floor against the floor and re-glue and rivet - this will be hard from underneath the car, probably borderline impossible if you
don't use clecko temporary rivets.
One tip would be to squirt waxoyl into the old rivet holes to prevent the drilled out rivets rattling in the tubes and sending you insane
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indykid
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 04:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
One tip would be to squirt waxoyl into the old rivet holes to prevent the drilled out rivets rattling in the tubes and sending you insane
at which point, you lose most of the weight saving by replacing the floor.
i'd leave the floor tbh,
tom
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DIY Si
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 05:03 PM |
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It might weigh a bit, but rattly rivets are DAMN annoying! As said, if you wan to go fast in a se7en, you can't have big comfy seats or windows
or anything else that isn't absolutely necessary to going forwards quickly. The other option is to buy something non 7 shaped which is capable
of loads of power and streamlined for high speeds. Something like the Ultima or similar.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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davidwag
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 06:38 PM |
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Fit a second cbr1000 engine for a twinny?
David
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Moorron
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 07:19 PM |
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lol i think i will leave the floor then. Its a very capable car, i wouldnt buy anything else and i feel bad modding someone elses old car when they
spend a small fortune on it.
I STILL havent used the nitrous yet, but i use it in my range rover and think little of it.
agreed, u cant have it all unless u want a lamborghini or so, but im going to try my hardest, damn my soul if i dont lol. might go to the show this
w/e and have look at some other grp seats. the last lot i sat in were huge so that put me off, but if i do find some DONT TELL HER! lol
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
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iank
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 09:41 PM |
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If you don't use the nitrous it's just extra weight slowing you down
For really good, extremely light but rather pricey seats you'll find the Cateringvan boys favour these
http://www.tillett.co.uk/html/car_seat.html I wouldn't even fit most of them due to my pie retention issues  so hopefully they would be
better for you.
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JoelP
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 10:39 PM |
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if you havent used the nitrous it might be worth do so! I appreciate its expensive to leave on, but its easy power!
You want straight line thrills? Go busa - and leave the engine in the bike! I cant imagine many things being that quick.
Do you take it on track? This is a lot more fun than blasting down straight lines, which as you say you will get used to very fast!
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Peteff
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| posted on 14/9/06 at 11:27 PM |
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Go busa - and leave the engine in the bike
You don't need anything that big, it's a barge. Get a GSXR750, ZXR900 or anything similar, it's like arcade game speeds. Nobody
needs to go that fast in real life, it's all for bragging rights.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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alanr
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| posted on 15/9/06 at 09:15 AM |
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you could go and buy the twin bike engined Tiger that's up for sale on Pistonheads - only £15K
A
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Hellfire
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| posted on 15/9/06 at 11:41 AM |
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Anybody can go fast in a straight line and with the engine you already have in it, your car should beat 99% of all other road cars from the traffic
lights.
For the other 1% you've always got the nitrous. 
I personally don't think you'll get the performance you're looking for by changing or upgrading the engine. You've got to be
able to transfer all that extra power through the traction and with such a lightweight car, this is where you will struggle.
IMO you'd be better off optimising what you already have. Shed some weight, get some sticky tyres. Forget about straight line speed and take it
on track for that adrenaline rush you're after.
Phil
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