bodger
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 03:36 PM |
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Got a dilemma - zetec or R1 ?
Help! I've got the usual dilemma bec or cec.
My MK order needs to be finalized in the next week so I have to make this decision asap.
My initial idea was to use a 2l zetec & so I bought a new block which is now sat in the garage. Talking to Phil & a couple of other guys at MK
though I was definitely being steered in the bec direction.
I want to be able to drive to work in the summer which involves about 25 miles down the A23 / M23, have a bit of a blast around the south downs, the
odd track day / hillclimb.
I'm not an out & out speed freak I just want a car that handles well & is good fun. I guess that puts me more in zetec territory but
I'm drawn to the simplicity & cost of the R1 install (at least compared to the zetec). Also Phil mentioned that I'd loose 8-10"
legroom putting in the zetec which worries me a bit even though I'm only 5'10".
Although I've been a passsenger in an R1 Indy around a track I've never actually driven one. Are they a pain to drive if they're
not being driven flat out. Although they sound great on those youtube vids I imagine it could get a bit tiresome at a steady 80mph down the
motorway.
Also, If I go for the R1, am I likely to get a carb'ed version through SVA ?
Right, i'll stand back & let the battle commence 
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 03:47 PM |
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zetec....end of
it depend on what you want out of your steed,bikes are great for track days and squirts on a sunday morning,for a daily driver i would go zetec.(dons
flack jacket and tin hat)
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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mookaloid
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 03:51 PM |
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I think you need to have a drive of both to decide.
If you do want to hill climb it you should have a look at the regs fro the different classes before deciding - you might find that you'll need
slicks in the Bike engined classes on the other hand car engined classes are often roadgoing spec.
cheers
Mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Pezza
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 03:53 PM |
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I bought mine part built with a zetec, but am now going for an r1 instead, I know plenty of people who use their bec's on motorways etc.
Just off the a23 myself, so mine'll blasted up and down once it's done
You couldn't pwn your way out of a wet paper bag, with "PWN ME!!" written on it, from the "pwned take-away" which originally contained one
portion of chicken tikka pwnsala and the obligatory free pwnpadom.
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mandbsheldon
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 04:01 PM |
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R1!!!. I've had a Pinto which I changed for a blade. Now I have a Fazer (R1 ish) absolutly fantastic to drive, not just because of acceleration,
noise etc, but also because of how the car handles being much lighter at the front. Easy to drive around town i.e you dont have to drive flat out.
It's quite happy to sit at 3000 revs, but when you need to floor it, there is nothing that compares. Just my opinion
Leigh
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mac1ZR
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 04:16 PM |
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Had a Zetec MAC1, was pleased with it at first, thought it was quick and handled reasonably well. Now built a GSXR1000k4, totally different car, just
more nimble and nicer to drive. Wouldnt go back to car engine.
regards Chris
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bodger
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 04:29 PM |
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I suppose the next question is - anyone down brighton way got a bike engined MK to let me have a ride in ?
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 04:48 PM |
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ok
any back engine carb or injection needs setting up but all will pass the SVA
If you want a complete buzz that when you put it away youll want the FIX as soon as you get up the following morning
youll not go wrong with the r1
coupled with almost 60mph in first gear
sequential gear box
the noise and 13,000rpm
easy driving aswell
once you get use to the on off clutch
if your worried about noise
you should have heard mine stripped our race can
passengers ears would ring days afterwards but the grin on there face stayed with it to
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smart51
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 04:55 PM |
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An R1 will give 150 BHP for early engines and 180 for later ones. A zetec will give 135 in stock form and 150 with some tuning. The R1 engine and
gearbox will be something like 70 or 80 kg heavier (read 10 or 12% slower) for the same power.
I have an R1 car. The clutch is set up to give good feel and I have no problem with stalling. The acceleration is awesome. 70 MPH = 6600 RPM with a
3.62 diff ( would be 5750 with a 3.14) which makes long motorway journey tiresome. Sevens were not made for motorways. 9000 - 12000 on B roads is
just the best automotove noise save for an F1 V10.
For cruising or touring, a car engine is best, but then a car is best as it has a roof and boot space. For real driving on a realistic budget, a bike
engine is best. My ideal engine would be a car engine with 250+ BHP at 8000 or 9000 RPM. Not cheap though.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 05:18 PM |
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colin typed that wrong his ideal engine would be a ZX14r
he typed car engine by mistake
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TangoMan
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 05:45 PM |
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I think CalvinX's response said it all. Everyone will have a different opinion and a different reason for it.
When I was taking out the Pinto I considered both but opted for the 2.0 Zetec. The initial install will cost me around £850 but I will recover about
£650 from selling my old engine and parts.
So £200 for the upgrade with Megasquirt on separate throttle bodies and an LC1 Wideband Controller.
This leaves an easy upgrade for more power next year and cheap maintenance from now on.
I will drive to Le Mans again this year in the Seven. I would not fancy it in a BEC, either for reliability or noise.
If I was looking for a trackday toy I guess it would be a BEC, or probably a breathed on Duratec, but for a road vehicle a Zetec suits my needs. When
upgraded next winter I am hoping to see around 200bhp which will be nice
Summer's here!!!!
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Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 06:03 PM |
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Bike engines are for bikes that weigh about 180 Kilos. Take a sports bike and go for a blast then take your partner out on the back of it and kills
the performance. My wife is only just over 50 KG and she completely changed the get up and go of my Fireblade and R1. If you want bike engine
performance go and buy a bike. So by default if you want a sports car put a sports car engine in it. Torque and cc’s count, especially on real world
roads.
Also, unless you are under 25 do you really want to be going round to the local pub at 13,000 revs?
And then there is reversing to consider.
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stevec
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 06:32 PM |
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quote,I want to be able to drive to work in the summer which involves about 25 miles down the A23 / M23, have a bit of a blast around the south downs,
the odd track day / hillclimb.
M23 in a seven, that would scare me. You will get run over by a Eastern european lorry driver.
Steve
[Edited on 30/12/06 by stevec]
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 06:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bodger
Also Phil mentioned that I'd loose 8-10" legroom putting in the zetec which worries me a bit even though I'm only
5'10".
I take it you're thinking about the new chassis? You shouldn't loose that much legroom. I've just picked up my new style chassis, it
had to have the bulkhead moved back about 3 inches to fit an XE in, wouldn't have thought the zetec is much bigger (if at all). You'd have
to use a type9 gearbox and not an MT75 though, the type9 is a fair bit smaller. I'm 6ft tall and there should be plenty of room, I sat in the
BEC demonstrator they had and I had waaay more than 3" of spare legroom.
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bodger
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 06:56 PM |
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Yes I thought 8-10" was a bit excessive, still that's what the man said.
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Danozeman
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 07:12 PM |
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Id go for a car engine if your not going to sprint it.
IM building mine for the road and the odd few trackdays. If you blow a zetec youl get another for 200 quid max, swap your bit over and away you go.
i doubt youl swap out a blown bike lump for the same.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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smart51
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 07:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Lovelock
Bike engines are for bikes that weigh about 180 Kilos. Take a sports bike and go for a blast then take your partner out on the back of it and kills
the performance. My wife is only just over 50 KG and she completely changed the get up and go of my Fireblade and R1. If you want bike engine
performance go and buy a bike. So by default if you want a sports car put a sports car engine in it. Torque and cc’s count, especially on real world
roads.
Also, unless you are under 25 do you really want to be going round to the local pub at 13,000 revs?
And then there is reversing to consider.
Utter rubbish. I would never buy a bike, never mind a big bike. I want a car that goes as fast as possible but doesn't cost much. Bike
engine. The fact that it came from a bike means nothing as has been discussed many times before.
I'm not under 25 by quite some way. I wish my engine revved to 13000. 12000 just isn't enough.
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smart51
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 07:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
colin typed that wrong his ideal engine would be a ZX14r
he typed car engine by mistake
Actually you're right. No, no, no you're not. It's close. I'd love a ZX14 engine. I wouldn't pay £3000 for one
though. The perfect engine would be a ZX14 but with VVC or something so that it pulled from 2000 upto its 11000 (I think) red line. It would have a
wider range box so that motorways were less frantic and it would have a more car friendly gear change. A bike engine with a car gearbox would be just
right for me.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 07:43 PM |
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steve lovelock
you are talking shite
Bikes have primary reduction look it up
also youll know then what happens when you gear down a bike
so take in fact MY MK weighed 460kg was geared down to 122mph (plenty enough)
had 330bhp per ton
as measured on the g tech accurate enough
0-60 3.9
1/4 12.9
Ill give you another scenario
go down the pub in an CEC youll get a few lookers nice car etc
go down the PUB at 13,000rpm PADDLE SHIFT the noise etc
youll get 5x as much drooling over the car
then pull of the car park 60mph in first gear
so Bike engines are for bikes and under 25,s
thats why BECS are so hard to beat on track and off
an equivalent car engine would cost double treble etc
reverse What do you need to go backwards for?
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damien
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 08:33 PM |
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anyone got any videos of BEC?
is there anyway of getting round the reverse problem?
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 08:46 PM |
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why is the reverse a problem I never got stuck
there so light roll backwards etc
unless of course i appreciate you may have a hilly drive
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 08:50 PM |
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http://video.ibuilt.it/oultonforweb.wmv
see if this works mate
richi in his r1 two up at oulton
I could swear the car in front which has money bags of torque isnt really going anywherewhich has money bags of torque
[Edited on 30/12/06 by zxrlocost]
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bodger
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 08:55 PM |
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Thanks for all the replies guys. As regards the R1. Is there a specific year to go for ? Carbs or Injection. What's the going rate for a good
low mileage one?
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roadrunner
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 09:09 PM |
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Plus the blokes in the the pub will be laughing there arses off when you have to push it from your parking space cos you aint got reverse.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 30/12/06 at 09:21 PM |
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is this before or after Ive parked the car in a position ready to pull straight off
pinto boy
R1 all engines are great 98-2001 is carb
really makes no difference apart from the very newer ones being more money but having more top end power
the difference is noubt tbh
an 893 fireblade engine is rapid still
anything over 800 quid for the full gear with the loom etc
[Edited on 30/12/06 by zxrlocost]
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