cadebytiger
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 01:24 PM |
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Getting Plugs out (a little off topic sorry)
I have heard that Ford Ka spark plugs have a habit of rusting in and then snapping on removal if they are left for too long. (actually happened to a
friend when he took his ladies car into the garage)
Another friend who has not have the plugs changed in over 3 years wants me to change them. Has anyone got any advice on the best way to get them out
without breaking them off in the head?
Lets hope they come out first time anyway!!
Thanks again!
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worX
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 01:31 PM |
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I don't know specific to Ford Ka's, but there's the obvious couple of tricks, soaking them in a release agent (making sure not
enough to leak into the bores when it does comeout!) and then you could try tightening them up a fraction before you undo???
sorry can't be of a more specific help!
Steve
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pewe
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 01:34 PM |
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Try tightening fractionally until you feel movement (but obviously not enoughto break them) then undo proressively - undo a quarter turn - tighten a
bit then undo - that keeps the thread clear and stops it jamming on itself.
You could always spray a small amount of penetrating oil down into the plug hole the night before you intend removing them.
Best bet is to use Copaslip or similar grease with copper content when replacing with new plugs.
Cheers, Pewe 
WorX and I are on the same track!
[Edited on 3/7/07 by pewe]
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cadebytiger
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 01:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by worX
I don't know specific to Ford Ka's, but there's the obvious couple of tricks, soaking them in a release agent (making sure not
enough to leak into the bores when it does comeout!) and then you could try tightening them up a fraction before you undo???
sorry can't be of a more specific help!
Steve
by release agent do you mean penetrating oil? or is this something different (sorry for the stupid question)
Thanks for the help!!
[Edited on 3/7/07 by cadebytiger]
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aerobrick
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 01:38 PM |
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Had this on two KAs and one fezzie.
All resulted in broken plugs the problem is where the plug seals onto the block it corrodes and thats the weakest point.
I can only reccomend is clean all of the crap out of around the plugs (use a hoover to suck out the debris) the use wd40 or other make run engine get
warm clean again soak again then when stll warn try and undo them , I normally tighten them a fraction before undoing.
Only other thing is have an easy out
ready.
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cadebytiger
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 01:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by aerobrick
Had this on two KAs and one fezzie.
All resulted in broken plugs the problem is where the plug seals onto the block it corrodes and thats the weakest point.
I can only reccomend is clean all of the crap out of around the plugs (use a hoover to suck out the debris) the use wd40 or other make run engine get
warm clean again soak again then when stll warn try and undo them , I normally tighten them a fraction before undoing.
Only other thing is have an easy out
ready.
What is an easy out??? 
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mookaloid
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 01:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cadebytiger
quote:
Originally posted by aerobrick
Had this on two KAs and one fezzie.
All resulted in broken plugs the problem is where the plug seals onto the block it corrodes and thats the weakest point.
I can only reccomend is clean all of the crap out of around the plugs (use a hoover to suck out the debris) the use wd40 or other make run engine get
warm clean again soak again then when stll warn try and undo them , I normally tighten them a fraction before undoing.
Only other thing is have an easy out
ready.
What is an easy out???
I assume that you mean that it is never easy
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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cadebytiger
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 01:49 PM |
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thanks a million
right then:
clean around plug
add pen. oil and leave overnight
add more pen oil
give it a bang with smaller socket
tighten a wee bit
loosen in quater turns with a wee bit of a tighten again to clear threds
Sounds good to me!
So if it all goes tits up - then what??!!??
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worX
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 01:50 PM |
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The only reason I said this Mark, is because I really messed up last year and cleaned a few areas around/near the injection system and plugs etc when
our POS Astra wasn't running quite right, when I put it all back together after using an industrial (read ripoff LOL) version of wd40 it
wouldn't go at all, until I managed to get some new plugs and it started up fine!
(funny thing is, in cleaning I noticed a vacuum hose off, which was causing the poor running, not the messy state everything was in! - Ah well, live
and learn!)quote:
Originally posted by CaLviNx
Hi
As mentioned above both methods are valid, but don't really worry about any release agent leaking into the bores, any small amount of
fluid will only leak into the combustion chamber which funnily enough is designed to withstand an explosion at very regular intervals and even if
you do leak/spill any fluid down the bores and your worried about it, a quick flick of the key with the plugs out and a rag down each plug hole will
soon soak up any excess residue floating about.
When I worked for Ford we used to tap a slightly smaller socket on top the plug so that you introduced a "shock" to the neck of the plug
above the threaded portion, this when done correctly in conjunction with a little release agent used to have a very good success rate at removing
spark plugs from almost any type of head, with alloy heads being the bigger culprits for this occurance.
Regards
Mark
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balidey
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 02:04 PM |
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If it does go 'boobies upwards' then there is a great article in PPC magazine this or last month about drilling out the remains of a plug
using squirty whipped cream in the bore to catch any swarf
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worX
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 02:14 PM |
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It's OK Mark, I didn't think you were having a go at all, no need to apologise. But as you very rightly put, not everyone on here has had
the experience of working for Ford and being an MOT inspector, thats why if I learn something (from my mistakes or otherwise) that I get the
impression that someone else can benefit from, I try and impart that knowledge in as appropriate way as I see fit!
Like you said, you messed up weekly in your apprenticeship, I had a car stuck at work for a week as I was unable to fix it when I was on, so if I can
help prevent that happening to a fellow locoster I will try to!
Thats the only reason I utilised te quote function from your post!
Steve
quote:
Originally posted by CaLviNx
Dont get me wrong, not having a go, and if it seems like it is then apologies, this is maybe where the (and please no-one take this the wrong way)
professional mechanic (I was trained to fix things not be a fitter and replace them) differs from the guy in the street doing his own maintenance for
whatever reasons.
And everyone is entitled to do their own stuff, it just sometimes this is an example of where a trained person has the edge over the guy in the street
as a decent mechanic has already had his arse kicked and learned from the mistake of drowning the very same electronics in his first year as an
apprentice, I know I did those very things and had my arse kicked weekly, but it drummed in a working practice/method.
And maybe wrongly on my part it is (I) assume/forget sometimes that those working practices are done automatically through training in staying away
from electrical items with any such fluids of any time that might disagree with these post menstrual electronics, and that its not an automatic thing
for the man in the street to do. In those cases the more experienced should learn and understand that many haven't been taut the in the same way
as we ourselves have and make allowances for that fact.
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owelly
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 02:27 PM |
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All the previous plus, get the engine nice and hot before you start and never try to use the reverse thread easy-outs!!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 04:32 PM |
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These Plugs break Just above the taper seat where the metal neck is wasted as a design feature. They break because of one of two reasons.
1. The new cold plug is fitted into a still warm engine and then over tightened. when engine and plug reach the same temp then the taper seat is extra
tight and the weak spot gives before the taper seat.
2. The plugs are not replaced at recomended intervals and the seat and wasted area corrode, weakening the wasted area.
In either case the result is a broken plug.
DO NOT PANIC.
When all plugs are either removed and or broken, disconnect the coil pack and with a cloth over the plug area to catch flying plug pieces, turn engine
over on the key for a short while (10 - 20 seconds). This will blow ANY residual ceramic out of the broken plug.
Get new plug out of box. Measure trom seat to wasted area. note measurement.
Get a variable speed electric drill that will take a 13mm drill bit. measure up side of drill and mark (masking tape around drill) depth of taper
seat.(earlier measurement)
Get grease pot and pack plug remnants hole with grease.
Pack drill bit flukes with grease.
Old plug is already a lagre centred hole. Drill down centre of plug remnant with drill on slow speed and stop when you get to the mark/tape on
drill.
A quick sharp blow on the top of the plug shoulder remnants should now remove the remnant above the threads.
Now gently tap a torx bit (T50 or T55 can't rember which.) into the plug remnant and un-screw threaded piece.
When all broken plug are removed turn engine over for another 30 seconds to blow all debris out of the chambers and the reconnect coil pack and fit
new plugs. BUT DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN.
I used to allow 15 minutes per plug to do this.
Hope this is helpful.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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