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Another SVA dodger, on Ebay now
mr henderson - 6/11/08 at 02:40 PM

Spartan Roadster my arris!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-v8-kit-car-very-fast_W0QQitemZ130266464492QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130266464492&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2 %7C65%3A7%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308

John

iank - 6/11/08 at 02:44 PM

quote:
It also has a grate sound to it.

BenB - 6/11/08 at 02:46 PM

It's a highly modified Spartan by the looks of it!!!

mr henderson - 6/11/08 at 02:49 PM

Looking further down the list of kit cars on ebay, I see that red Ultima with the Ferrari badges is back on due to a non-paying winner. How predictable was that!

John

eznfrank - 6/11/08 at 02:49 PM

It's a bit of a shame really as it looks like a decent motor

[Edited on 6/11/08 by eznfrank]

Mr Whippy - 6/11/08 at 03:03 PM

hmm


balidey - 6/11/08 at 03:10 PM

quote:

I bought this car in need of tlc so I have more or less rebuilt it


Thats what happens when you rebuild cars.

MikeCapon - 6/11/08 at 03:37 PM

All this begs a question which I had already asked myself. (I'm still waiting for a reply)

What constitutes a Spartan Roadster or an MK or any other kit car for that matter? There are no homologation papers as with a mass produced car so how do you prove it is or is not a Spartan????

eznfrank - 6/11/08 at 03:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeCapon
All this begs a question which I had already asked myself. (I'm still waiting for a reply)

What constitutes a Spartan Roadster or an MK or any other kit car for that matter? There are no homologation papers as with a mass produced car so how do you prove it is or is not a Spartan????


I think it would be difficult to prove from a legal viewpoint. Seems like a big loophole as I could register my Indy as an "eznfrank Mark 1" and then scrap it and build another and chassis stamp it but because no one know what an eznfrank Mark 1 looks like then i could avoid SVA/IVA

Just for the record I wouldn't do that in a million years but I understand it to be possible.

mikeb - 6/11/08 at 03:47 PM

I may be missing something but why does being a sparatan roadster avoid the need for SVA. Is this a none loop hole?

iank - 6/11/08 at 03:51 PM

Looks like someone may have bought a V5 from a scrap Spartan and stuck the numberplates onto their new kit. Voila no SVA required.

If caught then I believe it's treated as ringing, the car gets crushed and you get a large fine and a proper criminal record.

[Edited on 6/11/08 by iank]

mcerd1 - 6/11/08 at 03:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeCapon
All this begs a question which I had already asked myself. (I'm still waiting for a reply)

What constitutes a Spartan Roadster or an MK or any other kit car for that matter? There are no homologation papers as with a mass produced car so how do you prove it is or is not a Spartan????


as far as the V5 is concerned its the chassis - so you'd need to compare this one to a known Spartan chassis of the same age and type

[Edited on 6/11/08 by mcerd1]

iank - 6/11/08 at 03:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeCapon
All this begs a question which I had already asked myself. (I'm still waiting for a reply)

What constitutes a Spartan Roadster or an MK or any other kit car for that matter? There are no homologation papers as with a mass produced car so how do you prove it is or is not a Spartan????


For a production kit it's down the being the original chassis (or exact replacement) as provided by the manufacturer.

For a locost it's rather more difficult to prove.

Dusty - 6/11/08 at 04:00 PM

It's just possible that he has kept the Spartan chassis and running gear and re-bodied with a seven style body. It looks very tall. This might make it legal, assuming it was an old Spartan which was legitimately on the road pre-SVA.

David Jenkins - 6/11/08 at 04:01 PM

As eznfrank says above - it's a shame that the registration was messed around, as it's a decent looking car, well put together (or well refitted, anyway).

mr henderson - 6/11/08 at 04:20 PM

I'm guessing here, but how about it being a genuine Spartan, but it's had a few new bits, such as a replacement body, and engine, and running gear, and suspension, and chassis?

wilkingj - 6/11/08 at 04:49 PM

Hmm looks dodgy to me.

Send the Ebay link to Vosa and ask them!

mr henderson - 6/11/08 at 06:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by chris mason


what's saying he hasn't still got the original chassis, slightly altered it and has made/bought new bodywork and wishbones to make it look like a 7

Chris


Fair bit of chassis modification would be required, this is the Ford version, reckon the Triumph one would be worse


geoff shep - 6/11/08 at 06:55 PM

Couldn't it already have been a seven shape when he bought it? He does say he 'repainted' the space frame rather than rebuilding it in a different shape.

David Jenkins - 6/11/08 at 07:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
Fair bit of chassis modification would be required, this is the Ford version, reckon the Triumph one would be worse




I don't see how you get a conventional seven body onto a frame like that - it's just not going to go, is it? I suspect that this is a ringer - a car that's been scrapped and its identity pasted onto another car. Which is a shame for the current owner, who seems to be a decent sort.

If it's a decent car (and examined CLOSELY) then I'd be tempted to buy it cheap and re-register and SVA it under its own identity... presuming that I could buy it at a suitable price.

Meeerrrk - 6/11/08 at 07:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by iank
Looks like someone may have bought a V5 from a scrap Spartan and stuck the numberplates onto their new kit. Voila no SVA required.

If caught then I believe it's treated as ringing, the car gets crushed and you get a large fine and a proper criminal record.

[Edited on 6/11/08 by iank]


na cos its a "Q" and "Q" plates are non transferable, arent they?

David Jenkins - 6/11/08 at 07:39 PM

The fiddle is to take the VIN plate and number-plates off one car and put them on another, then dump the old one . As far as the DVLA know, it's a car that's still on the road and getting taxed. The poor sucker down the line ends up with an illegal car that bears no resemblance to the one that was originally registered.

iank - 6/11/08 at 08:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Meeerrrk
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Looks like someone may have bought a V5 from a scrap Spartan and stuck the numberplates onto their new kit. Voila no SVA required.

If caught then I believe it's treated as ringing, the car gets crushed and you get a large fine and a proper criminal record.

[Edited on 6/11/08 by iank]


na cos its a "Q" and "Q" plates are non transferable, arent they?


As David says it's nothing to do with any kind of transfer with the DVLA, just purely taking the identity from a legal but knackered car onto a new one to avoid the test. People only get away with it because most MOT stations aren't stocked with people who know the difference between one kit and another, thus plenty of lotus 7 clones registered as Duttons etc. If you're ever in an accident you can be sure of a bad time.

Similar to taking the plates and VIN from a tax exempt MG Midget and screwing them onto a brand new MX5 to get free Tax and visible smoke emissions test at MOT - and about as legal but not as obvious to the man on the street.

Coose - 6/11/08 at 09:17 PM

What if the chassis has been modified over the years, to the extent that the only part that's original is the bit that the VIN plate is fastened to? What's illegal about that?

And let's be honest, how many SVA'd cars would pass another one six months down the line? Do you all keep the random bits of pipe lagging duck taped to your car, or do they "accidentally" fall off? Thought as much....

iank - 6/11/08 at 09:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Coose
What if the chassis has been modified over the years, to the extent that the only part that's original is the bit that the VIN plate is fastened to? What's illegal about that?

And let's be honest, how many SVA'd cars would pass another one six months down the line? Do you all keep the random bits of pipe lagging duck taped to your car, or do they "accidentally" fall off? Thought as much....


Two completely different issues.

The rules for chassis are simple if vague. If there has been a "significant" change to a chassis it needs an SVA test according to the rules/law. Significant isn't defined anywhere, but they are currently interpreting it pretty strictly - at least one bobtail range-rover's been taken off the road due to having a couple of feet of the rear chopped off its chassis even though it's not structural and doesn't affect the handling. Replacing all the tubes from a Spartan ladderframe with ones in a spaceframe configuration is obviously well out of 'insignificant'. Replacing a bent tube from a bang with a straight one would probably be counted as a repair and not significant.

The second issue is the same as any normal tintop. You can bolt on as much halfords junk or razor blades and nails to the dash, chuck out a seat and it's fine according to the DVLA/Vosa so long as you don't do anything to make it un-roadworthy (swap the brake pads for wooden blocks for example) at which points its a police issue not the DVLA.

Nobody said the rules had to be completely clear and obvious.

Coose - 6/11/08 at 11:03 PM

How do you then prove that it's not a Spartan? You can approach the owners club, but bearing in mind that Spartans haven't been made since 1995 (Google is your friend) who's to say that Mr Spartan didn't make a one-off space frame chassis in his lunch hour that the club don't know about?

Sorry, but I'm a big disbeliever of the SVA rubbish, and actually had a discussion about this over lunch today with a friend of mine (owner of a 1960 S2 Lotus 7 'Blade) and we both agreed that the only good use for a Dutton was to supply a log book for an MK Indy, in the same sense that the same log book was originally donated from a Mk2 Escort (what a waste)...

And there was me thinking that we lived in an age of recycling!