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VAT to 15%
nick205 - 23/11/08 at 10:39 PM

Well what do you think...?

I can't see how it works, Gov takes a cut income whilst extending borrowing - sounds like credit to me.

DorsetStrider - 23/11/08 at 10:44 PM

I think the theory goes something like this...

"if stuff is cheaper people will buy more... so we make more money in the long run"

Unfortunately the theory is spoilt somewhat when you consider marks and sparks are doing a 70% off sale and people still aint buying. Our illustrious leadership thinking an extra 2.5% will help is erm.... optimistic shall we say.

bigpig - 23/11/08 at 10:44 PM

Its a minor change, perhaps they should have done a Machine Mart and said December is VAT free

I think, although it will help consumer spending, rather than income tax causing saving, I don't know how much will actually end up as company profit.

Short term is going to cost businesses a lot up front changing systems, pricing, catalogues e.t.c.

Thankfully it won't be as bad as the 17.5 increase which cost some companies dear updating systems that kept the VAT rate as an integer

tegwin - 23/11/08 at 10:57 PM

Its not going to make any difference to consumers....is it... really...

Shops wont want to move away from the precious 3.99, 9.99 figure..... so they will simply increase their margin of proffit...


Seriously... what planet is Gorbdon brown on...


That and introducing a 40% tax band for those earning around 100k a year is STUPID.... why tax those who are working hardest....

All that will happen is those that earn more, will leave the country, taking their skills with them..... We will end up with a country of slackers and retards........oh... its already happened

blakep82 - 23/11/08 at 11:09 PM

am i missing something? is this actaully to happen? any tax cut sounds good to me.

Moorron - 23/11/08 at 11:11 PM

yep will change nothing, its the little smirk he does thinking he is god and saving us all that makes me turn the tv over. idiot.

I agree with the above, nothing will be cheaper for us, it may increase (or more realistically help absorb the loss) the profits of the companies but i really dont think it will save us all.

mark chandler - 23/11/08 at 11:15 PM

IMHO it will not do anything for the reasons above, shops will just increase margin.

Then next year, guess what 20% VAT appears to pay for it.

I recon that would be better off commisioning civil building works, council houses, roads etc and get more people employed.

Its the instability of employment that stops people spending, for myself with the low interest rate (huge mortgage) and lowering price of fuel I have never been so well off!

nb/ Marks & Spencer was a one day 20% off sale, they have never lost money just not made as much profit as expected. This year is expected to turn a £50Million profit, so down on last years £100Million so its all gloomy!!!

[Edited on 23/11/08 by mark chandler]

JoelP - 23/11/08 at 11:18 PM

I think its a crap idea myself. As said, 2.5% off is nothing. Also, whilst people are not confident in the economy they will just save the 2.5% rather than spending it, to secure their own positions a bit more, hence it wont come back to the government. Incidentally, the government should've been saving the pennies for the last decade of growth. Imagine if we had no national debt now? And non of the crap with hidden debt in the PFI schemes.


Must just argue with this bit though:

quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
That and introducing a 40% tax band for those earning around 100k a year is STUPID.... why tax those who are working hardest....

All that will happen is those that earn more, will leave the country, taking their skills with them..... We will end up with a country of slackers and retards........oh... its already happened



In our capitalist society, earning lots of money is less to do with hard work and all to do with playing the game well. You dont get 100k a year by working hard. Bin men work hard, filthy work and up at the crack of dawn. Lawyers dont.

And i dont think losing skills is an issue. Which people would you miss most, those who stock the supermarket shelves/transport food/doctors receptionists, or rich business men who turn a tidy profit by shaving a few % off what they turn over?

(i appreciate thats a very simple anti capitalist rant, but since im not really anti capitalist i dont feel compelled to research a clever rant )

907 - 23/11/08 at 11:19 PM

Personally I'm more worried about if I'll still have a job at Christmas,
not, shall I buy a new telly 'cause it's three quid cheaper.

Paul G

JoelP - 23/11/08 at 11:23 PM

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=101104&page=1#pid842354

thought id link this in.

Im well annoyed cos i wrote my own spreadsheet formulas at 17.5% and now i might have to decipher them and change it all. And it wont even save me any money that tw4ts!

zzr1100rick2 - 24/11/08 at 07:21 AM

Tegwin what makes you think that those of us on 100k work any harder than those on less

dave1888 - 24/11/08 at 07:52 AM

What implications will cutting vat to 15% have on shopkeepers, will they have to change all there accounting software to accomodate the change and pay staff o/t to change all the ladels on produce on the shopfloor.

smart51 - 24/11/08 at 08:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
That and introducing a 40% tax band for those earning around 100k a year is STUPID.... why tax those who are working hardest....


Erm, are you sure about that? Do you hear that everyone? If you aren't earning over £100,000 PA, you're not working hard! Yet your fingers out you lazy lot.

Seriously, that is an idiotic thing to say. I could add together several poeple who work very hard and earn less than £100k between them. I'm sorry but you're just wrong.

scootz - 24/11/08 at 08:05 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider
Unfortunately the theory is spoilt somewhat when you consider marks and sparks are doing a 70% off sale and people still aint buying.


Pretty sure it was a 20% off sale and my local M&S (Gyle Edinburgh) was the busiest I've ever seen it. Spoke to my Sis down south and she said it was the same at her local M&S.

Media sensationalism yet again???

God, they must REALY REALLY want a deep dark recession to keep their news headlines flowing!

coozer - 24/11/08 at 08:53 AM

Cutting 2.5 off will hardly make any visible difference.

For me raising the tax threashhold is the best way to do it as you instantly see more cash on your paynote.

I'm after a new camera now and have seen the price is £285 in curry's and £184 at ebuyer. So I want to see how much ebuyer will knock off if the vat goes down.

nick205 - 24/11/08 at 09:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
Its not going to make any difference to consumers....is it... really...

Shops wont want to move away from the precious 3.99, 9.99 figure..... so they will simply increase their margin of proffit...


Seriously... what planet is Gorbdon brown on...


That and introducing a 40% tax band for those earning around 100k a year is STUPID.... why tax those who are working hardest....

All that will happen is those that earn more, will leave the country, taking their skills with them..... We will end up with a country of slackers and retards........oh... its already happened



The 40% tax band has been in place for a long time and applies to income over £34,800 per annum.

HMRC Income Tax Bands

£34,800 really isn't that much in this day and age and to have a feckin' great chunk taken by people (any government will do here) who then fritter it away with little or no tangible benefit to those that gave it up really SUCKS

What is being talked about now is a super income tax band of around 45% applied to income over £150k per annum. However what tends to happen at this income level is that you pay your accountant a little more to minimise your tax liabilities (investments, pension funds, pre-tax expenses etc.). So the benefit to the government will be negligible. Some accountants will be smiling though.

It's the midddle income earners that always have and always will pay to keep the government afloat.

bob - 24/11/08 at 09:15 AM

A 2.5% cut in VAT is not going to get me lifting floorboards and spending my hard earned, so a £12000 new car gets a £300 cut WOW you can probably do better than this yourself.

As said then we get 20% VAT like other euro countries so we will then be closer to £ to Euro time which is what i thought this so called credit crunch was all about anyway.

Davey D - 24/11/08 at 09:49 AM

Well im going straight out to my nearest ferrari dealer now that i can get a few quid off







Not!

nick205 - 24/11/08 at 10:32 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Davey D
Well im going straight out to my nearest ferrari dealer now that i can get a few quid off










Not!


...and on £100k you'll save all of about £2k

But then with the falling price of fuel that'll fill it up a few times eh!

BenB - 24/11/08 at 10:43 AM

The Beeb website says the suggestion is 45% tax over £150k.

As much as I hate paying tax, if I was ever to earn that much I'd be having too much fun to notice I was paying more tax

Now of course if the government admitted it's game plan re privatising the NHS it could do so in a completely open way and make a hell of a lot of cash to buffer the country for quite a few years. But instead it'll do it via the backdoor, whilst supressing the lobbies who would prevent it. For a government prepared to make some quite spectacular cock-ups they sure are pathetically cowardly when it comes to transparency in healthcare.....

I never thought I'd see a supposidly socialist government working so hard to get us into debt through such a blinkered Keynesian approach to prop up a hyper-capitalist state......

scootz - 24/11/08 at 10:49 AM

IMHO, the biggest mistake made was letting our gold reserves go. Bad enough flogging them, but to do so at the price they got was criminal.

I this will come back to bite us on the arse (severely).

Jasper - 24/11/08 at 12:56 PM

Well, I have a retail business, and there is no way I will be reducing my prices by 2.5%. The time it would take to physically change all my prices in my shop and online will completely outway any extra sales I might get.

skydivepaul - 24/11/08 at 07:33 PM

Did anyone miss this part

However, Mr Darling said he will "offset the VAT reduction" by increasing duties on petrol, alcohol and tobacco "by an amount which should keep the overall cost to consumers the same this year".

so give a temporary cut in VAT, a permanent increase in fags, booze and petrol and then put the VAT back up..................................top plan!!!!

johnston - 24/11/08 at 07:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Well, I have a retail business, and there is no way I will be reducing my prices by 2.5%. The time it would take to physically change all my prices in my shop and online will completely outway any extra sales I might get.


Some how I dont think you'll be the only one.

I cant see guitar hero world tour being any cheaper when I go get it for the daughter for christmas..

and why cut the VAT and stick the fuel duty up. surely fuel is one thing that effects everything especially food that VAT don't touch

scootz - 24/11/08 at 07:52 PM

I don't think the Government really expect the 2.5% to be passed onto the consumer... I think it's just a (minor) stimulus for the small / medium business owner who will (and should) pocket the saving.

As I said before - there is absolutely no sign of recession on the high streets and shopping centres of Edinburgh and Aberdeen... can't speak for anywhere else, but these cities are absolutely mobbed!

I saw a report on the local news the other night where the reporter was standing in a minor shopping area of Edinburgh reporting on the gloom and doom. Whilst not 'high-street' busy - the area was as full of life as it's always been. Wonder why they chose that area and not Princess Street, The Gyle or The Fort???

Also noticed they were only asking obvious no-marks for comments on how much they were stealing, sorry spending. Wonder why they were choosing that section of society???

Many sections of the media are SO (deliberately) irresponsible when dealing with critical issues!

Aaaaaaargh...

davidinhull - 24/11/08 at 08:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Well, I have a retail business, and there is no way I will be reducing my prices by 2.5%. The time it would take to physically change all my prices in my shop and online will completely outway any extra sales I might get.


I have no intention of physically repricing every item in my shop - 2.5% extra profit thankyou - so a cut in VAT is good for my business!
hopefully I'll then spend it in the shops who have cut there prices - double the winnings

Jon Ison - 25/11/08 at 08:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Well, I have a retail business, and there is no way I will be reducing my prices by 2.5%. The time it would take to physically change all my prices in my shop and online will completely outway any extra sales I might get.


So you have just been handed a 2.5% income increase by Mr Darling ? Hope you take time out to say thankyou.

woodster - 25/11/08 at 10:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by skydivepaul
Did anyone miss this part

However, Mr Darling said he will "offset the VAT reduction" by increasing duties on petrol, alcohol and tobacco "by an amount which should keep the overall cost to consumers the same this year".

so give a temporary cut in VAT, a permanent increase in fags, booze and petrol and then put the VAT back up..................................top plan!!!!


well said ... more of the same ... pubs closing and the motorist pays more ............. Vince Cable seems to be the only one talking sense

David Jenkins - 25/11/08 at 12:26 PM

There was a program about the USA national debt on TV last night - very, VERY scary stuff, as they have the biggest debt in the world.

And guess who's number 2?

Correct - the UK.

And we're about to add to the debt.

There was another prog on C4 last night - The Ascent of Money - which described how government bonds work (or don't work). Also very scary when watched just after the other program.