Board logo

how do you make water freeze - the opposite of antifreeze
smart51 - 12/12/08 at 08:09 AM

Is there something you can add to water to make it freeze at higher temperatures? A sort of anti-antifreeze? They seem to have coated the car park in it this morning.

mangogrooveworkshop - 12/12/08 at 08:14 AM

add salt to ice and it drops the temp.......

Mr Whippy - 12/12/08 at 08:31 AM

Nope though increasing the air pressure(a lot) will raise the freezing point, has that happened?

I was out on black ice with my mountain bike last night, actually not as difficult as I had thought just can't use the front brake

blakep82 - 12/12/08 at 08:36 AM

they must have put the whole car park in the freezer then...

smart51 - 12/12/08 at 08:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
they must have put the whole car park in the freezer then...


I wouldn't put it past them. I bet they're trying to sell the security camera footage to you've been framed.

Richard Quinn - 12/12/08 at 08:46 AM

I think the landlord of our estate has got whatever it is too!
The road up to it from the junction with the main road never seems to get direct sunlight so even when everywhere else is completely clear, getting up and down that road has been very interesting lately!

[Edited on 12/12/08 by Richard Quinn]

maartenromijn - 12/12/08 at 08:52 AM

quote:

I was out on black ice with my mountain bike last night, actually not as difficult as I had thought just can't use the front brake


I did this once with DIY spikes / studded tires. Needed: 2 old tires. One tyre, screw 2" screws from the inside in the tyre. Next, cut the other tyre up, and use it to protect the tube. Here you go, pulling a wheelie on the ice.

cheers
Maarten


BTW: I don't think anti-antifreeze is possible either. I have to say I did not have scientific proof to back up my statement.

02GF74 - 12/12/08 at 09:20 AM

the may be something but off hand I cannot think of it.

chocolate or wax perhaps? try licking the tarmac.

If you think about it, this is what happens to anti-freeze. Adding water to it increases the temperatur at which it freezes or thinking about it the other way, it lowers the point at which water freezes.

Humbug - 12/12/08 at 09:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
the may be something but off hand I cannot think of it.

chocolate or wax perhaps? try licking the tarmac.

If you think about it, this is what happens to anti-freeze. Adding water to it increases the temperatur at which it freezes or thinking about it the other way, it lowers the point at which water freezes.


These two are opposites of each other - they can't both be true???

[Edited on 12.12.2008 by Humbug]

GeoffT - 12/12/08 at 09:56 AM

A quick google has just revealed that acetic acid freezes at 17C, so somebody has obviously let their fish 'n chips drip all over the carpark, bloody inconsiderate.

02GF74 - 12/12/08 at 10:01 AM

see here:


100% Proplene glycol (red) feezes at -80 F (right side of graph)

Adding water to it, we move left on the graph, and we see its freezing point rise - line goes up the scale.

Eventually we reach 0 % proplene glycol i.e. 100% water and freezing point has risen to 32 F (0 C).

Isn't that what I said ^^^? If not, it is what I meant to say. The freezing point of proplene glycol is raised by adding water.

Macbeast - 12/12/08 at 11:20 AM

Always read carefully before you diss a post

smart51 - 12/12/08 at 11:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
the freezing point of proplene glycol is raised by adding water.


Which is interesting. What I asked is how do you raise the freezing point of water.

Is there an additive that will do this? What's the stuff they put in McMilkshakes to stop them melting?

cd.thomson - 12/12/08 at 11:58 AM

I used to work at mcdonalds. The consistency of the shake is virtually the same in the cup and when its poured into the back of the machine.

The base fluid used for the shake is a very very thick dairy product, not milk at all. When the mcdonalds lacky pulls the lever to dispense the drink its quickly chilled through a fridge compartment then a flavour syrup is added.

Its not like making a proper milkshake with ice, milk, cream and fruit.

Sorry if thats crushed anyones impressions of maccy d's... (ha)

Mr Whippy - 12/12/08 at 12:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
the freezing point of proplene glycol is raised by adding water.


Which is interesting. What I asked is how do you raise the freezing point of water.

Is there an additive that will do this? What's the stuff they put in McMilkshakes to stop them melting?


Milkshakes do freeze at 0 degs as does milk, you don't see this because fridges are around 6 degs. Some very cold milkshakes are kept 'liquid' below freezing point by much the same process as shush puppies, i.e. by continual agitation usually from an helical screw which breaks up the ice crystals so small that they appear to be not there and you just perceive them as a thick milkshake

MikeRJ - 12/12/08 at 12:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippythe same process as shush puppies


I thought I was going to die last time I drank one of them, the pain in my chest was agonising.

smart51 - 12/12/08 at 12:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Some very cold milkshakes are kept 'liquid' below freezing point by much the same process as shush puppies, i.e. by continual agitation usually from an helical screw which breaks up the ice crystals so small that they appear to be not there and you just perceive them as a thick milkshake


I'd heard that McD add 2 chemicals to their milkshakes, one to stop it freezing and one to stop it melting. It gives it the "on the edge of freezing" texture over a wide range of temperatures. I'd also heard that Margret Thatcher had something to do with these chemicals before she entered politics.

02GF74 - 12/12/08 at 01:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
the freezing point of proplene glycol is raised by adding water.


Which is interesting. What I asked is how do you raise the freezing point of water.

Is there an additive that will do this?


and I did post there there probalby is just that I don't know of one.

The response above was to demonstrate that if you have two liquids with different freezing points and then start mixing them the melting point will change; depending on the way you look at it, the melting point of one will be raised or the melting plint of the other one will be lowered.

I don't know what chemical was applied to your carpark - sorry

Peteff - 12/12/08 at 01:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
Is there something you can add to water to make it freeze at higher temperatures? A sort of anti-antifreeze? They seem to have coated the car park in it this morning.

Ground temperature can be lower than air temperature so frost or black ice are formed while the air is 3 degrees warmer.

Here is a bit about it.

twybrow - 12/12/08 at 01:59 PM

Testosterone has been shown to raise the freezing point of water by as much as a few degrees. Maybe a group of burly men were strutting around your car park, beating their chests!

Mr Whippy - 12/12/08 at 03:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Some very cold milkshakes are kept 'liquid' below freezing point by much the same process as shush puppies, i.e. by continual agitation usually from an helical screw which breaks up the ice crystals so small that they appear to be not there and you just perceive them as a thick milkshake


I'd heard that McD add 2 chemicals to their milkshakes, one to stop it freezing and one to stop it melting.

I'd also heard that Margret Thatcher had something to do with these chemicals before she entered politics.


probably derived from her venom

24vseven - 12/12/08 at 04:43 PM

Whats the opposite of anti-freeze?

wel for all my basic scientific knowladge i can see the answer is very simple

uncle-freeze

Humbug - 12/12/08 at 05:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
Testosterone has been shown to raise the freezing point of water by as much as a few degrees. Maybe a group of burly men were strutting around your car park, beating their chests!


"beating their..." oh, chests!

watsonpj - 12/12/08 at 09:19 PM

Guys if you work it out can you tell the people who run the amenities here in aguascilenties in central mexico where I am working only last week they started building this


icering_inprogress
icering_inprogress

and a week on it looks like this


Image deleted by owner

yes they are trying to build an ice rink with a day time temp of 24-26 degrees.

night does get down - the 0 to -2 range though.

but its still very very wet they were having ice crystals delivered when I was up there early in a bid to bring the temp down quicker.
Pete

greggors84 - 12/12/08 at 10:31 PM

Our car park at work is the same. No where else is icy, but when you pull into the car park you just slide straight across it!

Had a moment the other morning, ended up sliding towards one of the works cars stopped just in time. There was only a couple of spaces left so I parked th other side of it thinking if anyone else did the same at least I would have a shield.

Of course then someone takes the works car out somewhere, when the boss arrives a little bit too lit in his 2 ton Merc ML he slides straight into the side of my car! When he told me I needed a new door skin I was expecting to see my car folded in 2. Luckily its only a small dent.

Probably the best person to crash into your car at work. Meant he couldnt say anything about me leaving work at 1.30 that day too!