Rhys Jones
richard thomas - 16/12/08 at 11:03 PM
Just watched the News at Ten report on the tragic circumstances and subsequent convictions after the trial....
I'm struggling to understand what is going in on in the lives of those who perpetrated this tragic crime? Looking at the CCTV footage that was
shown, it's just a bunch of teenage kids who parade around on BMX bikes posturing in front of (or on the border of, i.e. not past
Blockbuster's window etc.) their so-called 'rival' gang members....although some of the 'gang' members were in their
twenties!! Not exactly 'Boyz 'n' the Hood' when they are sat outside of Specsavers 'dissin' the opposition....my arse!!
Grow up.
To my mind, the availability of lethal weapons in this sorry day and age means that these KIDS - 'cos that's only what they are - can hide
behind threats and body language and attitude because they don't have the metal to face up and give each other a good hiding....which is
unfortunate because THAT'S WHAT THEY NEED!!!!! It's just so tragic when some of the most impressionable (i.e. Thick!!)of this minority have
listened to their peers, and watched too many films, and played too many Playstation games, that they become detached from reality - then think that
the actions that they carry out deserve respect
Trust me, where I came from in the dark South Wales valleys, there was no need to have to act
all tough, if you came on with all the sh*te that these individuals do, you'd get yourself re-aligned soon enough, it's called natural
selection! Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating a violence free society - 'cos it'll never happen ( I'm not a hippy ), but
all things in context....
Hope they get a good kicking inside.
Rant over.
Rich.
EDIT - sorry, just read my rant, and realised that it is VERY off topic for Locostbuilders, but I know you lot don't mind a vent off know and
again...felt strongly about this one and the missus get's sick of me.....plus I should say that in my anger I forgot to mention that my and my
family's best wishes (for what they are worth) go out to Rhys's family and friends, and I hope that they can start to rebuild their recently
devastated lives as best possible
[Edited on 16/12/08 by richard thomas]
[Edited on 16/12/08 by richard thomas]
mistergrumpy - 16/12/08 at 11:12 PM
The leader of the rival gang "Noggsy" I think it was was interviewed and he said that things will never change until they're all dead
or in jail.
In the infamous words of Baldrick "I have a cunning plan...."
richard thomas - 16/12/08 at 11:18 PM
Sooner they all get together in a boxing ring with (the lightest available) gloves on, the better - might teach them a thing or two about
'Respect'.....? Takes a lot to punch a man to death, they might even start to feel sick in the process? Saps!
liam.mccaffrey - 16/12/08 at 11:22 PM
makes me want to leave the country
Dangle_kt - 16/12/08 at 11:43 PM
I live less than a mile from where the shooting took place, his auntie is our next door neighbour.
Trust me, these lads would wup the ass of any of the "valley" boys.
Cage fighting is one of the most popular pass times in my area. They go kick crap out of there mates. And then do the same on the streets.
Yes there is alot of posturing etc. but they aint a bunch of wimps who hide behind hoodies, most of them are genuine criminals (who rob honest people
like me) for a laugh, who have links with far more serious criminals.
If they were just idiot lads, then the more "influential" locals would have got rid of them a long time ago.
Thing is they use the young lads as a throw away murderer - no one in the right mind would go anwhere near these guys - but a young 16 year old kid
with a sorn off will do it to prove a point.
Its nuts round here.
I hate it.
Trying to sell our house has just got A LOT harder thanks to the negitive equity we are in. So i face the option of having my little lad grow up in
these streets.
Not a pleasent thought.
There is no quick fix, no glib comment about boxing rings that will solve the mess. This place is broken IMO, it's beyond fixing.
The sad thing is Rhys is just the very public face of the very real issues this area has.
[Edited on 16/12/08 by Dangle_kt]
liam.mccaffrey - 17/12/08 at 12:23 AM
dangles closing comments are exactly what I feel.
there is nothing we can do or say to change it, sadly its almost not worth discussing as its a governmental problem affecting the common man and as
such must be solved from the heights of power
[Edited on 17/12/08 by liam.mccaffrey]
richard thomas - 17/12/08 at 12:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
I live less than a mile from where the shooting took place, his auntie is our next door neighbour.
Trust me, these lads would wup the ass of any of the "valley" boys.
Cage fighting is one of the most popular pass times in my area. They go kick crap out of there mates. And then do the same on the streets.
Yes there is alot of posturing etc. but they aint a bunch of wimps who hide behind hoodies, most of them are genuine criminals (who rob honest people
like me) for a laugh, who have links with far more serious criminals.
If they were just idiot lads, then the more "influential" locals would have got rid of them a long time ago.
Thing is they use the young lads as a throw away murderer - no one in the right mind would go anwhere near these guys - but a young 16 year old kid
with a sorn off will do it to prove a point.
Its nuts round here.
I hate it.
Trying to sell our house has just got A LOT harder thanks to the negitive equity we are in. So i face the option of having my little lad grow up in
these streets.
Not a pleasent thought.
There is no quick fix, no glib comment about boxing rings that will solve the mess. This place is broken IMO, it's beyond fixing.
The sad thing is Rhys is just the very public face of the very real issues this area has.
[Edited on 16/12/08 by Dangle_kt]
Fair play, and point made, mate,
Wasn't after making out that the 'valleys' are the hardest place in the world, no glib comments intended, but it's a fact that
Maesteg - the place I was born and raised, and lived until very recently, - is (or was, and probably still is) the gateway for drugs to the West, yet
as much as there is general (serious i.e. knife murder last week, as example, community of 10,000 people) violence there doesn't seem to be as
much of a 'gang' culture as there seems to be around the rest of the big cities in the UK. Not withstanding the widespread use and abuse of
steroids etc. which causes endless violent episodes where like-minded individuals tear each other apart in the name of sport, respect, competition
etc, whatever..... but they do keep it in-house generally!
Whether that is due to local cultural influences i.e. still a sense of community ( much less intense than in recent years gone by due to the massive
de-industrialisation ), or due to the fact that we tend to knock ten bags of shite out of each other in local sport Derby's regularly, or maybe
it is a relatively small community in comparison to the rest of the country, or possibly a reluctance by the general public - who have an advantage in
that in a closed community it's difficult to hide behind a hoodie - to be intimidated by a minority is difficult to determine. I'm aware
that the vast majority of the community are law abiding citizens like ourselves, and are sick of what's going on around us....
However, my point was that that the youth of today seem to have little or no understanding of moral codes or decency as we (older generation?)
understood them, and seem reluctant to take any responsibility for their actions....
For what it's worth, my thoughts and respects are with you and yours.
Keep safe.
Rich.
[Edited on 17/12/08 by richard thomas]
richard thomas - 17/12/08 at 12:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
dangles closing comments are exactly what I feel.
there is nothing we can do or say to change it, sadly its almost not worth discussing as its a governmental problem affecting the common man and as
such must be solved from the heights of power
[Edited on 17/12/08 by liam.mccaffrey]
If that's the case we might all as well leave for Aussie tomorrow!! Except they won't take us all.....
If we decide not to discuss it because it's futile, what's the point of the Government in principle?
Dangle_kt - 17/12/08 at 08:41 AM
I understand what you are saying, but there is a million miles between writing it in a forum, and it actually happening.
Plus I don't think the government can fix it. I'm not sayng lets not talk about it, and rally behind positive initiatives. I just don't
think any of them will bring the benefit they need.
Culture takes a very long time to change, but when the local normal people decide to keep their head down rather than make themselves a target for
these gangs by standing up to them - then its over IMO.
If being a target wasn't so dam dangerous it would be fine, but after our break in the court official basically told us, to leave if we
didn't want to risk the health of our (then to be born) baby. And these are officials telling us to drop the case!
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
dangles closing comments are exactly what I feel.
there is nothing we can do or say to change it, sadly its almost not worth discussing as its a governmental problem affecting the common man and as
such must be solved from the heights of power
[Edited on 17/12/08 by liam.mccaffrey]
If that's the case we might all as well leave for Aussie tomorrow!! Except they won't take us all.....
If we decide not to discuss it because it's futile, what's the point of the Government in principle?
mistergrumpy - 17/12/08 at 09:30 AM
I'll put my neck out here and try not to upset too many as that is not intended.
In my opinion Liverpool is not helping itself. It seems, over the past 15 years or so to have put so much effort into trying to 'disguise'
the fact that it's a rough, gang populated place. It's well known. (I have family there too so it's not just based on television) They
do not want to admit that they have a problem still and as they say in AA admittance is the first step to recovery. Don't get me wrong, I'm
not tarring the whole place with the same brush here but it does have a problem and Liverpool would rather cover it up by saying things like
"look, we're the City of Culture, we must be, the Beatles were born here". Yeah fantastic. Why not put all that energy into getting
your "house" into order.
Places like Manchester admit they have a knife and gun crime problem. Glasgow admits it has a knife problem, but no not Liverpool any more, we're
cultured here.
fesycresy - 17/12/08 at 09:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
Trust me, these lads would wup the ass of any of the "valley" boys.
Cage fighting is one of the most popular pass times in my area. They go kick crap out of there mates. And then do the same on the streets.
And my dads harder than your dad 
And you think it's any different in other places ? The valleys are shite holes, along with many other deprived areas in this fuct up country.
No work, no money, possibly no escape. Or are grugs the escape ?
I moved around and lived in some real rough areas, however I was lucky to move to a nice area, and when I hear people say it's getting rough I
just laugh.
Hopefully my kids have a better chance and don't have to witness the crap the valleys have to offer.
Good luck trying to get away from it.
fesycresy - 17/12/08 at 09:33 AM
BTW
Cage is a massive sport all over this country, my lad trains in a gym with 4x British JuJitsu champions (all going to the World Games) next year and
two Junior champs.
The gym is a unit factory with fully equipped boxing ring and all caging down the back and side wall !
One lad has just turned professional at 19 - he's something else.
mistergrumpy - 17/12/08 at 09:34 AM
Yes, to add. Genuinely, I wish you luck in trying to get out of the situation you're in. I've read your previous post on being stuck with
the housing market and renting.
You're absolutely right when you say "when people decide to keep their heads down then it's all over", I've seen this at work
time and again around Manchester.
Dangle_kt - 17/12/08 at 10:10 AM
HAHA! It wasn't aimed at saying the lads are better fighters, just pointing out, that a "dam good thrashing!" as was suggested,
wouldn't help the situation, cos they do that for fun.
I didn;t mean to make these lads sound impressive in any way, I hope they all rot personally.
I also wasn't saying that Liverpool is the worst place in the UK, just commenting on my experiences. You don't hear much about Gun culture
in the valleys, maybe that becuase it isnt covered by the press, but more likely its because it isn;t as bad a problem as more urban areas.
When I read people saying that loads of places are rough, then I have to question the definition of rough, I used to live in a very posh little town,
but even that had a "rough" estate - but it doesn;t mean its comparible.
I just aim to get moved to a rural area ASAP, just because scrote per mile ratio is probably a lot lower.
quote:
Originally posted by fesycresy
quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
Trust me, these lads would wup the ass of any of the "valley" boys.
Cage fighting is one of the most popular pass times in my area. They go kick crap out of there mates. And then do the same on the streets.
And my dads harder than your dad
And you think it's any different in other places ? The valleys are shite holes, along with many other deprived areas in this fuct up country.
No work, no money, possibly no escape. Or are grugs the escape ?
I moved around and lived in some real rough areas, however I was lucky to move to a nice area, and when I hear people say it's getting rough I
just laugh.
Hopefully my kids have a better chance and don't have to witness the crap the valleys have to offer.
Good luck trying to get away from it.
oldtimer - 17/12/08 at 12:18 PM
I always feel a little humbled when on television we see the parents of a murdered child say justice has been done when the killer has been jailed. I
not sure I would feel so generous. 20 years inside then freedom is not the same as 70 years of lost life for an innocent child and wrecked family.