I was just reading about an Arial Atom that went wild and the driver being forced to drive it into a wall at great speed to stop it, apparently the
throttle opening by its self. I’ve always been wary about the concept of flyby wire throttles and certainly have heard of plenty of cases that cars
have taken off on their own, the drivers fighting, usually in vain to bring them to a stop. I’ve even driven (quite happily as it happens) with jammed
open throttles down the dual carriageway in the past due to carb icing so its not just all singing modern engines that can go wrong.
I wonder how many builders here have an engine cut button on the dash (say cuts the coil supply) for such occasions, my buggy has a simple switch for
the ignition and I think I’ll be doing the same for the Bluebird when I fit the cruise control incase it goes mad…
oh and if you haven't seen it -
[Edited on 18/12/08 by Mr Whippy]
I have an emergency way to stop my cars in all situations.
In the case of the throttle sticking open I'd use my "emergency" gear stick to put the car into "emergency" neutral. Then hit
the "emergency foot brake" to slow the car down. No need for a wall, although the engine may rev itself to death it wont kill me 
i put in neutral and use that thing called a "KEY" to turn it off
I have one that cuts fuel, coils, DBW throttle and all that jazz, operated by a key, in the ignition barrel, quite effective
RE the atom, Surely you'd just switch it off, dip the clutch, pull it into neutral, anything apart from bin it.
PS don't think an atom is DBW but cabled as in the EP3 civic type r
well apparently he tried this too, and it didn't work
I actually remember a BMW owner who this happened to and who did a summersalt over a roundabout, when asked why he hadn't just switch the engine
off he replied he wasn't sure if the steering lock would come on
[Edited on 18/12/08 by Mr Whippy]
If you are driving along the road and use such an ignition switch isnt it possible for the engine to continue running?
Knocking out of gear sounds feasible but i guess its all in the timing, i dont think the chap in the atom had an awful lot of it iirc.
I have a cut-off switch
Thats right, throttle sticks wide open so you have the clutch to stop the car moving, the brake to push when you've applied the clutch, the gearstick to put into nuetral or first then of course the key to turn the engine off.
hmmmm, there have been stories about electronickery going haywire; most have been excuses for BMW drivers to check out their top speed on the M1.
what are the odds he was doing the same, crashed and is seeking to blame the manufacturer?
does it not have a clutch or brakes fitted?
out of curiosity
does the steering lock come on when the igntion is turned off? On say a ford, I don't remember turning it two clicks
The steering lock doesn't usually come on until you take the key out.
David
quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
The steering lock doesn't usually come on until you take the key out.
David
Don't forget that if you turn the engine off you immediately loose the power assistance on your steering, and probably the vacuum that helps your
brake servo too, so be careful - its not just the steering lock you have to think about! Just dip the clutch and use the brakes!
A friend of mine who was a mechanic for mercedes took a S500 for a 'test' after he'd fixed it , and the throttle stuck fully open at
about 90 - He turned the ignition off. Lets just says that you have to be careful to just turn the key to OFF and not the position where the steering
lock is on. He still recons he was incredibly lucky not to crash between steering lock on and back to off.
Hugh
Likewise to most of the replies above. Unless he convinced Ariel to build him an Auto, he should have been able to stop it by using the clutch. maybe
he just panicked - an odd reaction to deliberately drive into a wall though. More likely he binned it then thought up the excuse after.
Mine's going to have a cut-out, and it has an electric fuel pump as well - turning the ignition key off should cut the coil and the pump, so
you've got no sparks or fuel to keep the engine running.....
Are there some cars out there where the engine doesn't stop when you switch off the ignition???? I'm confused!!!
Clutch down, bang it into neutral, switch off engine, use middle pedal to stop.
Or is that too complicated?
quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
Don't forget that if you turn the engine off you immediately loose the power assistance on your steering, and probably the vacuum that helps your brake servo too, so be careful - its not just the steering lock you have to think about! Just dip the clutch and use the brakes!
quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
A friend of mine who was a mechanic for mercedes took a S500 for a 'test' after he'd fixed it , and the throttle stuck fully open at about 90 - He turned the ignition off. Lets just says that you have to be careful to just turn the key to OFF and not the position where the steering lock is on. He still recons he was incredibly lucky not to crash between steering lock on and back to off.
Hugh
on my mk if the ignition is fully off it locks the steering but you could allways turn it back on without starting the engine that would work.
if he tried all of the ways to stop the car, brakes, neutral and the key etc and NONE of that worked, then i have only one comment,
WHAT A SHODDY BUILD!
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Are there some cars out there where the engine doesn't stop when you switch off the ignition???? I'm confused!!!
Clutch down, bang it into neutral, switch off engine, use middle pedal to stop.
Or is that too complicated?
Ah that BMW driver you're talking about Whippy must've been the one on the news. He tried to blame a manufacturing fault. In the end it was
proven to be lying not sure what his punishment was though.
There is a tale behind that Atom I think. The fella who did it was on the Atom owners club, the one where they don't like Nitram and gave the
tale. Of course all the others agreed with him that it most certainly wasn't anything to do with the build quality and that the chassis was
therefore and forever proven effective
Same conclusions last time it was discussed
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=91229
That is why I don't build cars with combined steering lock/ignition.
On the MotaLeira, I have used an FIA switch which will cut the battery, but instead of a resistor for the alternator on the other terminals, I will
connect them to the Bike loom engine cut.
That way, turning it off will kill the engine too and no steering lock dramas.
I don't ever remember encountering any car where turning the ignition off but leaving the key in will lock the steering.
In addition, if a modern car is put in neutral with the throttle stuck wide open, the engine will not rev its brains out either.
On full throttle, they stutter off a false rev limiter at around 5,500 rpm. You actually get more revs in netutral using part throttle.
I think our man made a James Hunt of it, to use Glaswegian rhyming slang.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Are there some cars out there where the engine doesn't stop when you switch off the ignition???? I'm confused!!!
Clutch down, bang it into neutral, switch off engine, use middle pedal to stop.
Or is that too complicated?
Yeah seems simple enough yet there's been plenty who have crashed from this. The guy in the Arial got this legs pulverised and his passenger broke one. He seems to have had time to build up speed and then decide to hit the wall rather than take a T-junction. Not sure why he could not have just disengaged the clutch
All quite strange
Here's a thought- what engine has the Arial atom got in it? Does it's ECU not have a rev-limiter?
Even if it hadn't the blown-engine vs no-legs debate wouldn't be a long one for me. With a rev-limiter what's the worry? My 1/4 mile
start technique is heavy right foot, let it bounce around on the limiter then dump the clutch. Savage but effective....
And if my weeny puny BEC for girls engine can take bouncing around on the limiter without going pop a manly boat anchor should be fine!!!!
Still reckon he just spanked it and was worried the insurance wouldn't pay up if he admitted that he was driving like a gimp!!
50M to go and he decides how he's going to crash into a brick wall? I'd decide to dump the clutch and say adios Mr Engine....
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJYou don't immediately lose servo assistance for the brakes, it takes several presses of the pedal to lose all the stored vacuum in the servo.
he got it wrong and then thought of the excuse, most peoples reaction specially if you drive a fast car is to hit the clutch....then the middle pedal.
Sad fact is he got it wrong and spanked his car
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Are there some cars out there where the engine doesn't stop when you switch off the ignition???? I'm confused!!!
Clutch down, bang it into neutral, switch off engine, use middle pedal to stop.
Or is that too complicated?
Steering lock is NOT ALLOWED to come on using the same motion as switching of the engine, it must be a separate action. This is part of both SVA and
EU type approval.
Engines will happily bounce off the limiter for ages, it sounds painful but manufacturers will test their engines on the limit for anywhere between 15
minutes and several hours without breaking a sweat. Never understand why people are so touchy about hitting the limiter.