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!!!HAMILTON EXCLUDED FROM AUSSIE GP!!!

speedyxjs - 2/4/09 at 09:18 AM

mookaloid - 2/4/09 at 09:27 AM

If F1 was silly before - it's just downright stupid now

flak monkey - 2/4/09 at 09:28 AM

You what?!

There is something odd going on there I am sure....will be interesting to see the evidence which overturned the decision.

bilbo - 2/4/09 at 09:28 AM

Pathetic!

I said the other day in a post that I'd avoided F1 for years because of all the rubbish that went on, but I'd started to follow the sport again this year.
I don't think I'll bother any more - it's a complete waste of time

Stuart_B - 2/4/09 at 09:30 AM

that is stupid, they should at least show what happened, or the evidence which overturned the decision

stuart

mookaloid - 2/4/09 at 09:33 AM

I think the clue is in the title "Lewis Hamilton has been stripped of his third place at the season-opening Australian Grand Prix for deliberately misleading race stewards"

Not sure evidence has anything to do with it.....

bilbo - 2/4/09 at 09:36 AM

To be honest, I don't really care who was at fault here. It's this whole effing about that seems to take place after every race.
Well, I managed 1 race. I might try again in another 6 years

deezee - 2/4/09 at 09:36 AM

BBC Website reports he deliberately created a situation, while the safety car was out, which forced Trulli to pass him?

I'm still going to watch the Grand Prix. I enjoy it for the cars and driving. And not the statistical assignment of numbers against names.

Still not as good as BTCC or the World Rally

balidey - 2/4/09 at 09:46 AM

Just had to check the article date, make sure it wasn't a story from yesterday

Humbug - 2/4/09 at 10:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bilbo
To be honest, I don't really care who was at fault here. It's this whole effing about that seems to take place after every race.
Well, I managed 1 race. I might try again in another 6 years

I've never watched a whole race. Leaving aside all the bullsh1t politics I get bored with the "race" after a few minutes anyway.

I'm with the comment above... BTCC is much better

[Edited on 2/4/09 by Humbug]

scootz - 2/4/09 at 10:13 AM

Don't know what the fuss is all about... he's been caught out by the Stewards and penalised accordingly - end of story!

balidey - 2/4/09 at 10:20 AM

I'm rooting for Button, so I'm quite pleased with this decision anyway

mangogrooveworkshop - 2/4/09 at 10:54 AM

Quote
Play Fantasy F1 - join up now by clicking on the link under the picture; then form a mini-league with friends, family or colleagues and watch your progress in your national league. You may just find yourself at the top of the grid!..

That is exactly what they are doing
but using real cars

cd.thomson - 2/4/09 at 10:57 AM

I'm not bothered who wins/places in the GP at all I just watch it for the racing.

It bothers me because theres the qualifying round, then the race. You find out the results of the race a week later after a whole load of uming and aring.

The rules and regs are completely swamping the immediate excitement of racing supercars.

phoenix70 - 2/4/09 at 12:06 PM

Well there is a surprise, McLaren get caught telling porkies to the FIA ...... AGAIN.

So much for their squeaky clean image!!!

[Edited on 2/4/09 by phoenix70]

BenB - 2/4/09 at 12:14 PM

Eh? How did they tell porkies? The anti McLaren witch-hunt continues. Just ridiculous!!!

scotlad - 2/4/09 at 12:15 PM

I agree with Balidey- stuff Hamilton and GOOOOOO Button!!!

[Edited on 2/4/09 by scotlad]

yellow melos - 2/4/09 at 12:22 PM

If they are representing the UK should we not support them regardless ??

F1 is just not about racing anymore, i think i will stick with the moto cross world championship for my racing fix !!

designer - 2/4/09 at 01:26 PM

If they are representing the UK should we not support them regardless ??

In my view, afraid not. I would never support Dwain Chambers.

McLaren have been skirting around with untruths for a few years, and have no need to complain.

They got caught, that why there is no appeal.

Come on Jenson!!

phoenix70 - 2/4/09 at 01:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Eh? How did they tell porkies? The anti McLaren witch-hunt continues. Just ridiculous!!!

Anti-McLaren Witch-hunt !!!! your having a laugh, they have admited that they withheld information

iscmatt - 2/4/09 at 02:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by balidey
Just had to check the article date, make sure it wasn't a story from yesterday

Thats what did too.

BenB - 2/4/09 at 02:38 PM

What information did they withhold? I love the people who are suggesting the Hamilton let Trulli past so they could claim an overtake under yellows and get Trulli disqualified. Why would they need to do that? There was no need!! Trulli had slid off the road and Hamilton took him. He was in 3rd, Trulli was in 4th. Why would they jepardise that by pulling a silly move that could not result in Hamilton getting any more points?

It's ridiculous!! There was no advantage for Hamilton for getting Trulli disqualied or put back 25 seconds!!

OR if I'm being thick please someone explain!!!!

iiyama - 2/4/09 at 03:49 PM

More to the point, if the above did happen as you suggest, then why did Toyota not appeal the 25 second penalty after it was awarded on Sunday???

James - 2/4/09 at 03:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BenB
What information did they withhold? I love the people who are suggesting the Hamilton let Trulli past so they could claim an overtake under yellows and get Trulli disqualified. Why would they need to do that? There was no need!! Trulli had slid off the road and Hamilton took him. He was in 3rd, Trulli was in 4th. Why would they jepardise that by pulling a silly move that could not result in Hamilton getting any more points?

It's ridiculous!! There was no advantage for Hamilton for getting Trulli disqualied or put back 25 seconds!!

OR if I'm being thick please someone explain!!!!

I'm a massive Mclaren fan but I'm afraid I think it's hands up time.

Mclaren f'cked up because they didn't know the full safety car rules and they're paranoid about breaking the rules after the Raikonen incident last season.

Basically they let Trulli through because they believed they may have breached the safety car rules themselves. They tried to check with Charlie Whiting the race director but Race Control were busy and they didn't get back to them.

So they let Trulli through to play it safe believing it'd be sorted after the race.

When it came to that investigation after the race Mclaren knew the safety car rules and knew they'd messed up and shouldn't have let Trulli through and given him the place.

Hamilton told them he hadn't 'let' Trulli through but that he'd been overtaken. This being to get Trulli dropped.
Even though he'd just told the press he did let him through.

They then also didn't release the full radio transcript where they discussed whether they should let him through or not.

Basically, having messed up and let Trulli through unnecessarily, Hamilton saw a chance to get Trulli dropped (by letting the post race investigation think Trulli had overtaken rather than being 'let through'

and took it.

A risk which seems to have back fired.

A shame as I thought he was better than that.

Cheers,
James

EDIT: It's interesting to hear the radio transmission:
http://dl.groovygecko.net/anon.groovy/clients/igentics/australia09/2009_Australia_Hamilton_driveraudio_final.mp3

Shows they were genuinely trying to 'play it safe' and check the rules with Race Control.

Was a pity that Hamilton didn't tell the truth during the post-race investigation!

[Edited on 2/4/09 by James]

iiyama - 2/4/09 at 04:14 PM

OK, if thats an exact transcription of what happened then fair enough. However I'd still like to know why Toyota didnt appeal? Seems very strange to me that if a team thought they were hard done by, (3rd, with points and cash to absolutly nothing), why they didnt kick up?

MK chippy - 2/4/09 at 05:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by iiyama
OK, if thats an exact transcription of what happened then fair enough. However I'd still like to know why Toyota didnt appeal? Seems very strange to me that if a team thought they were hard done by, (3rd, with points and cash to absolutly nothing), why they didnt kick up?

My thoughts aswell! ^^^^^

Excluding him from the GP is a bit extreme i think, he drove well and would have finished fourth fairly, surely just giving him the points for fourth would have done?!!!!!!

Mark Allanson - 2/4/09 at 05:15 PM

Every time this sort of sillyness starts I say I will never watch F1 again - but I always seem watch it

David Jenkins - 2/4/09 at 07:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
Every time this sort of sillyness starts I say I will never watch F1 again - but I always seem watch it

I said that I wouldn't - and I don't...

scootz - 2/4/09 at 07:43 PM

Toyota didn't appeal it immediately because they (like the Stewards) didn't have ready access to the 'facts'... Hamiltons 'version of events' was being accepted over Trulli's and that was that - or so it seemed until the driver-to-pit radio transmissions and team discussions with race control were all pieced together and the reality of the situation became clear!

I was a Hamilton fan when he first broke into F1, but he has started to grate on me with his attitude.

He (and his team) have lied. He (they) deserves the exclusion... I feel they are lucky that they haven't been excluded from the next race too!

Paul TigerB6 - 2/4/09 at 08:15 PM

Is there any of you lot above who clearly have it in for Hamilton / McLaren who actually want to see some fair racing or do you all just want to see him excluded from every single race for some infringement of one clearly vague rule or another?? McLaren made repeated requests to the race directors during the safety car period which was also proven in the transcript about whether Trulli going off as he did and Hamilton going past was legitimate!!!

How about blaming the FIA for a change for a) not making a decission at the time to get the cars in the correct order before ending the safety car period (like they manage easily enough in the Indy cars), and b) having such vague and complex rules that the teams (not just McLaren) have to search the rule books seemingly every time something happens and dont know whether they should appeal through fear of a bigger penalty!! Just to prove what a joke the decission making has become - look at the 10-place penalty that Vettel gets for this weekend following the incident last week when we actually had a proper bit of overtaking!!! Didnt the FIA want overtaking?? Are we going to see punishments every single time there is contact??

Seems clear that we are yet again going to have a season decided in the stewards meeting, and probably at some stage this season, a court room!!! F1 turned into a joke last year and nothing has changed!!! Sunday's used to be about seeing who would do what in the Grand Prix - not any more so who bl**dy bother!!!!

I wont be watching on Sunday!!

[Edited on 2/4/09 by Paul TigerB6]

A1 - 2/4/09 at 09:54 PM

the formula 1 has become far too regulated with too many rules, so it totally detracts from the entire point of it- to have a race. i mean, every time anything vaguely exciting happens its 'i wander if the stewards will take a closer look' its just wrong. they need to make it simple - race to win, with good sportsmanship.

im not going to take sides on the hamilton trulli thing, cause i dont know enough about it.

James - 2/4/09 at 11:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Is there any of you lot above who clearly have it in for Hamilton / McLaren who actually want to see some fair racing or do you all just want to see him excluded from every single race for some infringement of one clearly vague rule or another?? McLaren made repeated requests to the race directors during the safety car period which was also proven in the transcript about whether Trulli going off as he did and Hamilton going past was legitimate!!!

I hope that is not aimed at me. I think Hamilton's great and want him to win and want him to win many more championships. I love Mclaren too, I worked for them for 3 seasons and have nothing but respect for the people who work their balls off there for minimal financial reward.

I think you're missing the point!!! Hamilton/Mclaren are being punished because he lied during the post-race investigation and they mis-led the FIA with their radio transcripts.
Not because of what happened on the track but after the race.

I want him to win, but I want him to win legitimately. Where's the satisfaction in a win by cheating?

Cheers,
James

James - 2/4/09 at 11:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MK chippy

Excluding him from the GP is a bit extreme i think, he drove well and would have finished fourth fairly, surely just giving him the points for fourth would have done?!!!!!!

But they can't just say: "Oh it's ok that you lied during the investigation, here's your points and lets forget about it"!

I imagine they think some sort of example has to be made to prevent it happening again.

Cheers,
James

Paul TigerB6 - 3/4/09 at 12:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by James

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Is there any of you lot above who clearly have it in for Hamilton / McLaren who actually want to see some fair racing or do you all just want to see him excluded from every single race for some infringement of one clearly vague rule or another?? McLaren made repeated requests to the race directors during the safety car period which was also proven in the transcript about whether Trulli going off as he did and Hamilton going past was legitimate!!!

I hope that is not aimed at me. I think Hamilton's great and want him to win and want him to win many more championships. I love Mclaren too, I worked for them for 3 seasons and have nothing but respect for the people who work their balls off there for minimal financial reward.

I think you're missing the point!!! Hamilton/Mclaren are being punished because he lied during the post-race investigation and they mis-led the FIA with their radio transcripts.
Not because of what happened on the track but after the race.

I want him to win, but I want him to win legitimately. Where's the satisfaction in a win by cheating?

Cheers,
James

No it wasnt aimed at you (or anyone else) James - just the general masses who seem to want Hamilton to fail no matter what. From what i have seen of the so called "evidence" - its a total sham what they did!! All the teams know their radio transmissions are recorded so is it not fair to assume that the stewards dont need telling they should listen to this? McLaren also made repeated requests to Charlie Whiting for a judgement on where Lewis / Trulli should be which was on tape also, but did the race directors not make this available to the stewards before the meeting?? Is it up to McLaren to give every detail to the stewards?? Who really believes that McLaren denied telling Lewis to let Trulli through?? I dont - knowing that everyone knows any transmissions are recorded. Does anyone really think McLaren are that stupid?? Am i the only one to think the FIA have released just the bits they want published?? It stinks and i am sure McLaren are taking it under further threats of sanctions.

Like you i want to see whoever win by fair means - not gifted it by the FIA. I was made up for Button (and Rubens who i have met personally / had lunch with etc) and will be gutted if they are stripped of the win due to this diffuser row. Surely though - thats the whole point - we are not even 100% sure, come a few weeks, who is actually going to be recorded as the winner of the Aus GP........ if could turn out to be Trulli or even Alonso who came 6th on the road given the diffuser row at the moment!! That to me isnt racing and how can the FIA be proud of this situation they have created??

iiyama - 3/4/09 at 06:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Toyota didn't appeal it immediately because they (like the Stewards) didn't have ready access to the 'facts'... Hamiltons 'version of events' was being accepted over Trulli's and that was that - or so it seemed until the driver-to-pit radio transmissions and team discussions with race control were all pieced together and the reality of the situation became clear!

I was a Hamilton fan when he first broke into F1, but he has started to grate on me with his attitude.

He (and his team) have lied. He (they) deserves the exclusion... I feel they are lucky that they haven't been excluded from the next race too!

Eh??? Toyota didnt have the facts?? Thier car and driver was involved, they had radio contact with thier car and driver, and they also have access to the onboard footage. So what other facts are required??

Hamiltons attitude? What attitude would this be? I see a young and very confident individual with a hint of arrogance. No different then to ooh I dunno, maybe a certain Shoe maker, or a certain Mansell, or maybe Senna or Prost? Pretty much no different then any other succesful racing driver really.

Anyway I think he'll be out of your hair in the forseeable future. Much more of this crap and I suspect he'll be off to America.
[Edited on 3/4/09 by iiyama]

[Edited on 3/4/09 by iiyama]

David Jenkins - 3/4/09 at 11:27 AM

Admission of guilt

BBC

James - 3/4/09 at 11:33 AM

Told ya!

Oh Lewis you silly sod!

Mclaren don't half make it hard to be a fan don't they!!!

Some further info:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74202

Cheers,
James

[Edited on 3/4/09 by James]

stuart_g - 3/4/09 at 11:47 AM

Thank god for Moto GP and World superbike there seasons have started already so there's something better to watch than the F1 flannel. I thought I'd start to watch F1 this year as I watched the remaining races of last year but after this episode it is complete bollocks.
BTCC starts this weekend and British Superbikes next so I don't think I'll waste anymore of my life watching F1.

scootz - 3/4/09 at 01:50 PM

Any Hamilton / Macca / conspiracy backers fancy a wee slice of humble-pie?

Paul TigerB6 - 3/4/09 at 02:08 PM

So long as it makes you all happy that the FIA and stewards are yet again deciding the results of races in a meeting room!! Sickens me that so many cant wait to see a British driver fail so hope you are happy with the result.

BenB - 3/4/09 at 02:31 PM

I blame Race control!!!
You are not supposed to over-take under a yellow but what if someone drives off the road? They needed an answer and couldn't get one.
If McLaren weren't so phobic about the Ferrari sponsered stewards they wouldn't have been all dithery...
Lying afterwards was just wrong.... naughty Hamilton.... It was only ever going to get Trulli kicked out for something he never did. Hamilton should have stayed in front of Trulli until an answer came from Race Control....

stuart_g - 3/4/09 at 08:17 PM

I would love to watch it this year and I do want Hammy to stick it to the cheating Ferrari's again but I'm sick of the result being decided in a stewards enquiry which no doubt ends up in a back hander somewhere along the line. Racing results should be decided on track not in a board meeting.

David Jenkins - 3/4/09 at 08:54 PM

I read in a paper today that Lewis may get reported to the FIA - in which case, there's a risk that he could be banned from F1, or lose his racing licence.

Probably a load of male bovine droppings... unless a certain white-haired dwarf puts his oar in...