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when is a classic car a classic car?
smart51 - 4/6/09 at 02:42 PM

We've been debating this one and we've got a few ideas. What do you think of them?

Hard and fast rules are silly. Americans consider classics to be made in 1959 or older. A car built in 1960 is not a classic even if it is identical to one made in 59. Any old heap made in the 50s is a classic. We think that's wrong.

A classic will be oldish. Not vintage but not modern. Its also got to be nice or interesting or historically significant, but not necessarily all three.

Here are the rules.

Production of the VERSION of the car should have stopped 25 years ago and production of newer versions 10 years ago. (Mk1 mini is a classic but the last of the old shape minis isn't)

Unless production started more than 40 years ago and your car is more than 20 years old. (Morgans, Bristol Blenheims etc)

Two of the following 3:

The car should be popular, anywhere on the scale from "slightly popular with everyone" to "fanatically followed by a few" (not a morris marina)

The car should be interesting. This would include the delorean, which had a very interesting story to it but would exclude something ordinary, like a Mk4 escort.

The car should be historically significant. The first front wheel drive car would be included, the first car with twin filament headlight bulbs would not.

Examples


Mk1 Golf

production started in the 70s so probably old enough. Current golf is not based on the Mk1 even though they share a name. It isn't a special car, even though it was VWs first non beetle based car. People are not bothered about it generally. Old, not classic.

Mk1 Golf GTi

Same as above but with a popular following and was the first of the whole genre of Gti cars to which it gave the name. Classic.

MGB

1960s to 1981, excluding the MGRV8 reissue in 1996. Very popular if not spectacular. No-one said it had to be good. Classic.

Austin Allegro.

1970s so probably old enough. Hateful nasty cars that too few people love. Interesting story as the original design was quite nice. The bonnet was raised to fit in the old 1.3 lump. The sides were wider than expected because they were made wrong and the company wouldn't pay for the tooling to be remade. Old not classic.

Ford Probe

Too new. Too modern looking. Not interesting or particularly popular. Modern.

Lotus / Caterham 7

1960s to present date. Not a classic. Series 1 cars perhaps because they are old and look more old.

2CV

1950s to 1990, so not long enough out of production, but will be soon. A historical milestone in many ways but unloved. Would have been a classic if they'd stopped making it sooner. Under the rules it will be a classic in a year or 2.

Citroen DS.

A ground braking and interesting old car. Classic.

So, not vintage or modern plus 2 out of three of popular / interesting / significant. What do you think?

blakep82 - 4/6/09 at 02:58 PM

too many rules, too confusing lol

20years + is modern classic
30years + is classic
50year+ is vintage

Lightning - 4/6/09 at 02:58 PM

My TVR Chimaera is on classic car insurance and hence £190/annum fully comp, which is good enough for me

[Edited on 4/6/09 by Lightning]

nick205 - 4/6/09 at 03:01 PM

Could be quite a subjective subject for most people.

What criteris do insurance companies use to determine vintage and classic status?

For me the 205GTI goes straight in the classic section

smart51 - 4/6/09 at 03:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nick205
What criteris do insurance companies use to determine vintage and classic status?

For me the 205GTI goes straight in the classic section


Insurance companies want your money so will say whatever they think will stop good business going to a competitor.

Liking a 205 Gti doesn't make it a classic. Neither does the fact that it was good. It isn't quite old enough so perhaps a future classic, though I suspect it isn't particularly interesting or historically significant. Sorry.

MK9R - 4/6/09 at 03:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Could be quite a subjective subject for most people.

What criteris do insurance companies use to determine vintage and classic status?

For me the 205GTI goes straight in the classic section


I was just about to ask how the 205 faired, as i consider it to be a classic now. What about stuff like the original sierra cosworth ??

smart51 - 4/6/09 at 03:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MK9R

I was just about to ask how the 205 faired, as i consider it to be a classic now. What about stuff like the original sierra cosworth ??


Is the cossie old enough? I'm not sure of the years but the sierra is long dead, so maybe. I suppose it is quite interesting, the sierra had a troubled birth. The cosworth has a following so by my rules, future classic until it is 25 years from end of production then it becomes a genuine classic.

MK9R - 4/6/09 at 03:35 PM

original RS500 cossie was 1984, so its a classic ??

I've never owned one, but it was the first real performance car i went in, i was about 10 and dads friend came round in one and took us out for a spin, i thought my eyes were going to explode!

[Edited on 4/6/09 by MK9R]

MikeRJ - 4/6/09 at 03:36 PM

Rigidly defining a classic is like trying to nail jelly to a wall!

speedyxjs - 4/6/09 at 03:37 PM

My 97 XJ6 is on classic insurance. Halfed my premium last year

clairetoo - 4/6/09 at 03:47 PM

As I see it - if they dont make them any more and they are good , then it's a classic
I loved my 1990 Alfa 164 - I bought it when it was just an old car , and cheap , but you just dont see them around and prices are going up . That makes it a classic .

blakep82 - 4/6/09 at 03:47 PM

1997?! lol

blakep82 - 4/6/09 at 03:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
As I see it - if they dont make them any more and they are good , then it's a classic
I loved my 1990 Alfa 164 - I bought it when it was just an old car , and cheap , but you just dont see them around and prices are going up . That makes it a classic .


good call, so when value start going up its a classic? i like it

speedyxjs - 4/6/09 at 03:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
1997?! lol


Yeah but she is well looked after

Fozzie - 4/6/09 at 03:58 PM

So then..at what age/criteria would you define the Historics?

Fozzie

speedyxjs - 4/6/09 at 04:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
So then..at what age/criteria would you define the Historics?

Fozzie


When the value goes over £40k

Fozzie - 4/6/09 at 04:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
So then..at what age/criteria would you define the Historics?

Fozzie


When the value goes over £40k


Nope!

blakep82 - 4/6/09 at 04:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
1997?! lol


Yeah but she is well looked after


does a well looked after 3 year old car then become a classic?

blakep82 - 4/6/09 at 04:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
So then..at what age/criteria would you define the Historics?

Fozzie


When the value goes over £40k


Nope!

over 70 years

Humbug - 4/6/09 at 04:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51

...

Mk1 Golf

production started in the 70s so probably old enough. Current golf is not based on the Mk1 even though they share a name. It isn't a special car, even though it was VWs first non beetle based car. People are not bothered about it generally. Old, not classic.

...



I'm not sure what constitutes a classic (probably as many theories as there are people on this forum!) but the Golf came out in 1974 and the K70 came out in 1970. Not based on a Beetle (though it was designed as an NSU, but released as a VW after they got taken over)

linky

[Edited on 04.06.2009 by Humbug]

speedyxjs - 4/6/09 at 04:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
1997?! lol


Yeah but she is well looked after


does a well looked after 3 year old car then become a classic?


Depends if its a jag or not

thunderace - 4/6/09 at 05:12 PM

i say my 80s golf mk1 gti karmann cabrio is retro not classic
but i think my 1973 dutton is a classic.

Mr Whippy - 4/6/09 at 06:39 PM

my 1989 Bluebird was in the modern classic section at the last car show

Just got it reinsured today and the guy on the phone said he'd not insured one in over a year, asked me to repeat the mileage when I said it was 44k

best classic are the everday humdrum cars that heaps of folk had and then recognise at shows, then say "OH MY GOD I HAD ONE OF THOSE!!!"

Mark Allanson - 4/6/09 at 07:17 PM

I think a classic as anything which stirs your soul, heart, loins and is not in current production.

Entirely a personal thing

Except FSO's - they will never be classic

austin man - 4/6/09 at 08:42 PM

my austin was a 1958 and definitely a classic see avtar

mangogrooveworkshop - 4/6/09 at 08:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
my 1989 Bluebird was in the modern classic section at the last car show

Just got it reinsured today and the guy on the phone said he'd not insured one in over a year, asked me to repeat the mileage when I said it was 44k

best classic are the everday humdrum cars that heaps of folk had and then recognise at shows, then say "OH MY GOD I HAD ONE OF THOSE!!!"

nick205 - 5/6/09 at 08:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
1997?! lol


Yeah but she is well looked after




OMG are you Phil Mitchell