Seeing as the locostbuilders fraternity like a good debate here's another to discuss

We have an alledged 2.5 million unemployed in the Uk at the minute (probably more, but the statistics are massaged slightly)

We import huge amounts each year of products which could be manufactured here in the UK, if it wasn't for the cost of labour rates (minimum wage)

So why doesn't the government build very large factories around some of the major cities and send the unemployed to work, want your giro this week, then get up in the morning and go to work at these factories, put in an 8 hour shift each day and get your rewards.

Yeah not everyone will live near a large city (goverment run factory), but we could always send these people by goverment run transport (jobs for redundant bus drivers) if they don't like the commute then get a job locally like everyone else.

Why should we pay people too sit at home, when we could get something from them in return.

There's plenty of really skilled/experienced people that have been made redundant over the past 3 years, so seeing as these factories need managers/supervisors etc, these would be the main candidates for such jobs.

All the lay abouts who have no intention of ever working, would secure the worst jobs.

With everyone being forced to work or receive no benefits, surely this would help motivate people to work harder and secure a better job.

It would give those who want too work, some sense of acheivement and help with learning new skills and bettering themselves, all those who have no interest in working, would end up worse off by still working and getting little if any benefit from it.

There's some possible issues with a scheme like this (days off for job interviews, holidays etc) but these problems are easily worked around.

Obviously this isn't aimed at the majority of hard working, but recently employed/redundant people (although they would have to follow the scheme for equality) but more a point to make the young people that this country is breeding, appreciate nothing is free in this world and like your grandparents who had to work for the nice things in life, rather than just wait for the next handout.

What should we produce? help the farmers? It would need to exportable for obvious reasons? Should these people do the more mundane jobs in uk industry?

So what do you think, Give them a job or pay them too watch Jemery Kyle?



[Edited on 21/9/11 by chris mason]

I've always thought the unemplyed, could do extra things, like extra street cleaning, or gardening in parks, try to make the place look nice! especialy if it's essentialy free! could have the current cleaners/gardners as supervisors.

dont you think they have thought about that.

What about the unfortunate who lose their job and will spend 4 weeks looking hard to get a new job but in the meantime maybe want to claim what they have paid 20 years in tax to cover......

does that mean they have to work fulltime reducing the chance of getting a job?

as above

a sort of national service.

the problem is, you would have the 10% of the people who want to work going to do it and the 90% lazy bums who cant be arsed phoning in sick with stress

I think the flaw in the original idea is that it would still be cheaper to buy the imports than have the government set up a factory to employ people who, in a lot of cases, don't want to work, or are so useless that they can't even function in the the lowest level of employment.

ive sussed it, on the dole for > 6 months and you get put down. I would happliy volunteer to gas them all

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So why doesn't the government build very large factories around some of the major cities and send the unemployed to work, want your giro this week, then get up in the morning and go to work at these factories, put in an 8 hour shift each day and get your rewards.

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Mr fellows, before you make sweeping statements like that, perhaps you should try being unemployed with a family to support. it's no joke for decent human beings.

To keep foreign imports down, tha US Govt uses slave labour to make white goods. Prisoners are forced to work manufacturing these items or face solitary confinement for the term of their sentence.

Edited to say: Just in case you think I am a bleeding heart. The prisoners are all voluteers, or they wouldn't be there in the first place.
As for 'gassing them all'. . . . Have you wanted to be in the Gestapo for long then?



[Edited on 21/9/11 by Confused but excited.]

A simpler answer would be to refuse to issue work visas to foreign nationals until there was 0% unemployment in the UK. Why are we importing labour when we have a perfectly good (in most cases) workforce on benefits. Retrain them if necessary but don't import cheap labour from, primarily, the Indian subcontinent until there are a surplus of jobs.

Don't underestimate the people from the indian subcontinent as they are very clever. They ring me at least once a week to tell me my pc has a problem and we generally exchange pleasantries. Super service i think you'll agree

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Originally posted by jeffw
A simpler answer would be to refuse to issue work visas to foreign nationals until there was 0% unemployment in the UK. Why are we importing labour when we have a perfectly good (in most cases) workforce on benefits. Retrain them if necessary but don't import cheap labour from, primarily, the Indian subcontinent until there are a surplus of jobs.

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Originally posted by Confused but excited.
Mr fellows, before you make sweeping statements like that, perhaps you should try being unemployed with a family to support. it's no joke for decent human beings.

To keep foreign imports down, tha US Govt uses slave labour to make white goods. Prisoners are forced to work manufacturing these items or face solitary confinement for the term of their sentence.

Edited to say: Just in case you think I am a bleeding heart. The prisoners are all voluteers, or they wouldn't be there in the first place.
As for 'gassing them all'. . . . Have you wanted to be in the Gestapo for long then?



[Edited on 21/9/11 by Confused but excited.]

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agree with jeff above, Even perhaps we send the ones over here already on benfits back bloody home and then bill their government for the flight or boat.........................

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Originally posted by lewis

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Originally posted by jeffw
A simpler answer would be to refuse to issue work visas to foreign nationals until there was 0% unemployment in the UK. Why are we importing labour when we have a perfectly good (in most cases) workforce on benefits. Retrain them if necessary but don't import cheap labour from, primarily, the Indian subcontinent until there are a surplus of jobs.

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+1

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I think the people concerned might throw that wonderful thing called "the human rights act" in the face of anyone trying to force that on them

As for stopping foreign nationals coming in, we joined Europe so they aren't classed as foreign and are welcome to come and take our jobs.

[Edited on 21/9/11 by Alfa145]

I think to give an incentive to work, any benifit paid should depend on the amount paid into the system over the years by way of tax and National insurace. Those who have paid the most will receive the most. If you give everyone the same amount you will not get the lazy out of bed as they are no worse off. Just an idea.

QUOTE MIKE FELLOWS.


Oh i love it when stuff gets taken in the wrong light.

how about a compromise.

>6 months plus then manatory work pro rata'd on the days you work.

EG work 5 days get 100% of your weekly money (£50 i think) do 7 days get £70

do 1 day get £10



Problem solved. Next i need to solve povety......

Some good points above.

I may have not made it clear above, they would only receive the benefits they get now, but for working instead, that way the cost to government is purely material costs, the labour is technically free, as we would be paying these people anyway.

I've no idea what the current rate of benefits is, but someone local too us seems to be doing well out of the system

But lets say for instance the minimum wage was £6 and they currently get £180 pw in benefits, then they would have too work a minimum of 30 hours too secure their benefits, any less and they would receive less.

This would allow the enthusiastic workers time to secure job interviews etc on the day/s they wouldn't be working.

Come too think of it, it's a system similar to the community hours criminals have too do, only on a much larger and more profitable scale for the goverment.

You can't export all the manufacturing and expect you have people left to buy things. This is the big mistake a lot of western countries made, especially the US, who continue to blame China for everything. The Americans are the ones who went there to set up cheap factories, and then blamed the Chinese when they had no jobs left to buy the stuff made. Add a war or two, and you end up where we are.

I like your idea, but then it's your country.

For the record being 'work shy' was an offence that put people in concentration camps in Nazi Germany.

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Originally posted by MikeFellows

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Originally posted by Confused but excited.
Mr fellows, before you make sweeping statements like that, perhaps you should try being unemployed with a family to support. it's no joke for decent human beings.

To keep foreign imports down, tha US Govt uses slave labour to make white goods. Prisoners are forced to work manufacturing these items or face solitary confinement for the term of their sentence.

Edited to say: Just in case you think I am a bleeding heart. The prisoners are all voluteers, or they wouldn't be there in the first place.
As for 'gassing them all'. . . . Have you wanted to be in the Gestapo for long then?



[Edited on 21/9/11 by Confused but excited.]

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you obvioulsy didnt take my comments in the light hearted manner they where meant, but still some truths persist.

I have been on the dole, I dont have a family to support. But when/If I do plan a family I will ensure I can afford to look after them before I randomly knock them out (not saying this is what you did before you have a go at me for that too)

given my way you wouldnt get a single penny from the goverment after six months, im sick to death of hearing people tell me there are no jobs, what they mean is there are no jobs they like the sound of or can be arsed to do.

I run my own business now having being made redundant 3 years ago, if the IT sector fell apart tomorrow and didn't exist, I guarantee by next week I would be doing something that makes me money - its not hard, just most cant be arsed

really the Gestapo? they gassed Jews not lazy bums, and most Jews I know work quite hard

Mike

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Hear this

Unemployed with loads of qualifications and living in Greece.

I rest my case...................

Bring back the chain gang, as in prison work,

Chain the buggers up, and let them clean the ditches/sewers up !!

ive never been to prison, or actually done anything that would remotly send me close !!
but 99% of them in there must be fit and well enough to do some real hard work somewere in our country
if they can not, then they should be stuck in the gas chamber (joke joke joke !!!)

Think of the cost saving !

and leave the unemployed alone, as i do know a few, and they have it real hard
smoking pot, getting pissed, and telling me im a real mug for working!

and as for the one guy i know who claims disabilty allowance for having IBS, dont even let me start, as he is on one very sticky part at the moment, for claiming (we believe) 270k in the last 21-23 years, yet he runs a a buisness from home
and some one has shopped him, wasnt me, as i didnt even know he was claiming

i I have never been unemployed, (yet) yet have been made redundent twice, yet managed to source a job within my notice period, yes i do have sympathy for folk who live in an area that has mass unemployed, that must be a nightmare
and i really do have sympathy, but there must be a way of them contributing to the countrys welfare while sitting at home and being paid for doing nothing

Steve

the biggest change needed is to firstly simplify the benefit system. It should be a simple payment for job seekers allowance, not a case of once you are on the dole you get everything paid for (ie council tax, dental costs etc). They should budget like anyone else. Im all for cutting payments after 6 months, and also being made to work either before or after that point. It would need to be work that doesnt need close supervision and also work that cannot be done badly. Or just introduce a flogging for shoddy work. It goes without saying that the Human Rights Act would be majorly rewritten.

Also a more robust legal system to deal with repeat offenders/ career criminals.

I could go on all day.

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Originally posted by MikeFellows
ive sussed it, on the dole for > 6 months and you get put down. I would happliy volunteer to gas them all

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personally, i've been working since i was 16, i'm nearly 29 now, so 12 years paying into the system there to protect me, why shouldn't i take so of my money back out of it?

[Edited on 21/9/11 by blakep82]

some really contencious points in all this, having worked in this type of arena for the past 13 years I have seen and heard so many things. I witness daily

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Originally posted by splitrivet
personally, i've been working since i was 16, i'm nearly 29 now, so 12 years paying into the system there to protect me, why shouldn't i take so of my money back out of it?

[Edited on 21/9/11 by blakep82]

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In 12 years of working you have earned how much ? to demand the state to pay for you ?

based on the lowest paid job i've had so far, about £10k dole pays about 3k a year i think
who's demanding? i'm just taking the help i can get to see me through while i'm struggling to get any job just now.
I don't enjoy being on the dole. its destroys your self confidence, especially when theres narrow minded, self righteous people beating you down all the time because they somehow think they're better than you

unfortunately this town's dying. it used to be one of the most industrious towns in britain i think, all the biggest and best ships built, engineering, QE2 built just up the river, then there was IBM, used to employ nearly the whole town. all gone now, and nothing replaced it all... its definitely not easy


[Edited on 21/9/11 by blakep82]

Im not having a go m8, not one bit !!

steve

So, sadly, you are going to have to do what millions before have done....go where the work is.

I live in Kent where there are a large number of fruit farms in very large poly tunnels. We have endless streams of Eastern Europeans being brought over to work on these farms because the local unemployed will not do the work. So there is work, you just have to be prepared to move around to do it. I've worked all over and I go where the work is...

[Edited on 21/9/11 by jeffw]

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Originally posted by jeffw
A simpler answer would be to refuse to issue work visas to foreign nationals until there was 0% unemployment in the UK. Why are we importing labour when we have a perfectly good (in most cases) workforce on benefits. Retrain them if necessary but don't import cheap labour from, primarily, the Indian subcontinent until there are a surplus of jobs.

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i find it interesting too that within this thread about the unemployed we start to see discussionsvery quickly around what to do with prisoners in jail.

that seems an interesting grouping together and says a lot about how public feeling is currently aimed regarding the unemployed.

paul

I think it must be very hard being unemplyed but then I've never been unemployed and I've done some pretty poo (and poorly) paid jobs in my time to get me through university.
The issue I have is when people are offered jobs but turn them down. Surely then they're not "job seeking". Being a final year med student didn't stop me flipping burgers for £3/hr....

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Originally posted by JoelP
the biggest change needed is to firstly simplify the benefit system. It should be a simple payment for job seekers allowance, not a case of once you are on the dole you get everything paid for (ie council tax, dental costs etc). They should budget like anyone else. Im all for cutting payments after 6 months, and also being made to work either before or after that point. It would need to be work that doesnt need close supervision and also work that cannot be done badly. Or just introduce a flogging for shoddy work. It goes without saying that the Human Rights Act would be majorly rewritten.

Also a more robust legal system to deal with repeat offenders/ career criminals.

I could go on all day.

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Originally posted by blakep82
based on the lowest paid job i've had so far, about £10k dole pays about 3k a year i think
who's demanding? i'm just taking the help i can get to see me through while i'm struggling to get any job just now.
I don't enjoy being on the dole. its destroys your self confidence, especially when theres narrow minded, self righteous people beating you down all the time because they somehow think they're better than you

unfortunately this town's dying. it used to be one of the most industrious towns in britain i think, all the biggest and best ships built, engineering, QE2 built just up the river, then there was IBM, used to employ nearly the whole town. all gone now, and nothing replaced it all... its definitely not easy


[Edited on 21/9/11 by blakep82]

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well, very interesting all round.

The last few years have definitely been particularly bad for anyone wanting to work.

Granted, there is always some work somewhere and personally I have previously applied for and done some pretty terrible, lowly paid and unrespected jobs (car park attendant anyone?). Around the same time as that I also had significant periods of unemployment whilst no one was prepared to offer me unskilled work due to my specialised training and experience.

I and many of my friends have in the past had to leave much of our details off of a cv in order to even get an interview for a job we could do in our sleep.

There are no simple answers to the questions posed by the OP

I continue to count myself lucky to be employed, not because I don't deserve employment - I've yet to be made redundnt from any job, always been asked to stay on or offered a better position to stay - but simply because I have experienced the mindless depression of not even getting an invitation to an interview.

Many of my friends have fallen in and out of work over the last few years regardless of their area of work and despite all of my friends being hard working and determined to make the best living possible for themselves.

disclosure: I'm an evil solicitor and perhaps that's why people didn't want to hire me for honest jobs in the past?!

You can't give up, that's all I know. It is very very demoralising to be unemployed (I have been there for about 2 years during the 80's) and misunderstood by almost everyone. It WILL get better. Education is the key. I will harp on that until I can't talk anymore. Crap jobs feel like absolute insults when you've got the education, but at least you can see a bit of light. I was washing dishes right after my first university degree. I can tell you it wasn't a lot of fun, especially when the boss told me I was eating too much one day...

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So, sadly, you are going to have to do what millions before have done....go where the work is.

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Originally posted by Confused but excited.
If I misunderstood your intent then I apologise.
I spent quite a long time being unemployed after a car smash that resulted in partial amnesia, thus rendering my qualifications null and void, not because I am a lazy bum ( I have spent months on end working seven, eighteen hour days, so object to being catagorised as a lazy bum, because I once spent more than six months on the dole) I even tried to get labouring work but couldn't get a start "because you are too qualified".
I had my children before this event and didn't knock them out on the dole.
Like you, I started my own business because no one would give me a start.
Interesting to know that if you had been in charge I would have been gassed before I had the chance to start up a business and employ several other people that were unemployed. Nes' pas?
Oh, by the way I'm disabled now, so would you like to gas me for being unemployed and useless?
Well I say unemployed, I did OK and retired at 48.



[Edited on 21/9/11 by Confused but excited.]

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I couldn't agree more mate.
I have taken work in the past that left me less disposable income than being on the dole but gave me my self respect back.
What boiled my pee was the "anyone on the dole for > 6 months should be gassed". When there are people, some of them on here, that have a great deal to contribute to society if given the chance. I don't like mob 'kill 'em all' mentality.
I could chearfully gas them all.
Not sure if that's satire or hypocrisy.

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Originally posted by Confused but excited.
I couldn't agree more mate.
I have taken work in the past that left me less disposable income than being on the dole but gave me my self respect back.
What boiled my pee was the "anyone on the dole for > 6 months should be gassed". When there are people, some of them on here, that have a great deal to contribute to society if given the chance. I don't like mob 'kill 'em all' mentality.
I could chearfully gas them all.
Not sure if that's satire or hypocrisy.

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^ ROFPMSL Nice one!
I know what springs to mind. (That's me being subtle that is).

[Edited on 26/9/11 by Confused but excited.]

Chris,

I can't imagine the products that your new factories produce are going to be very high quality.

I'm out.

Matt

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Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Chris,

I can't imagine the products that your new factories produce are going to be very high quality.

I'm out.

Matt

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Originally posted by blakep82

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Originally posted by Confused but excited.
I couldn't agree more mate.
I have taken work in the past that left me less disposable income than being on the dole but gave me my self respect back.
What boiled my pee was the "anyone on the dole for > 6 months should be gassed". When there are people, some of them on here, that have a great deal to contribute to society if given the chance. I don't like mob 'kill 'em all' mentality.
I could chearfully gas them all.
Not sure if that's satire or hypocrisy.

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+1 i don't like being on the dole, but to be told i'm better off dead, and that i'm basically worse than a murderer or rapist really mashed my turnips...
to the point where that person was looking for a special part, i knew who had it, but i was keeping quiet lol. i'm evil...

[Edited on 22/9/11 by blakep82]

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Originally posted by Theshed

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Originally posted by JoelP
the biggest change needed is to firstly simplify the benefit system. It should be a simple payment for job seekers allowance, not a case of once you are on the dole you get everything paid for (ie council tax, dental costs etc). They should budget like anyone else. Im all for cutting payments after 6 months, and also being made to work either before or after that point. It would need to be work that doesnt need close supervision and also work that cannot be done badly. Or just introduce a flogging for shoddy work. It goes without saying that the Human Rights Act would be majorly rewritten.

Also a more robust legal system to deal with repeat offenders/ career criminals.

I could go on all day.

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Any particular section of the Human Rights Act you object to or are you just repeating what you read in the Daily Mail? The Human Rights Act simply provides a mechanism for using the Convention on Human Rights agreed by most civilized nations after the horror of the 2nd World War. The reference to Europe has nothing whatsoever to do with the EEC. Before the HRA it was possible to complain about a breach of the convention (and many UK citizens did) but it was expensive and took years. The HRA simply sped things up. So much bull is talked about this simple bit of law mainly by the completely ignorant.

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You can't always believe what you read either. Sometimes the small stories make things sound like things are out of hand everywhere, which is not usually the case when all the facts are known. It is just easy to blame somebody else when things aren't going well for them. It's a bit of a trap, it eats you up and does no good.

They could work on recycling plants so I don't have to p**s about washing yoghurt pots..

Some interesting points.
Well, some interesting reading, not sure all the points were interesting or rather sensationalistic for the sake of it.

As opposed to Blake being put down as we speak, at least I have 2 months left to find a job before I too am subjected to genecide's most effective and financially viable solution of gassing... What was it again, watches & jewellery etc in 1st box, dentures and shoes in 2nd box and clothes in the 3rd? Just checking as I would want to make someone elses job more difficult than necessary in sorting my accoutrements...

I guess I could comment on quite a few of the above comments, but I have limited my daily LCB time to 30 mins nowadays so as not to interfere with me looking after Josef instead of paying for a nursery we can't afford, my job searching, cooking dinners and keeping the house tidy for my wife and 1 year old son.

ATB
Steve

Can we get an AMEN?