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Traders - Public and Product Liability?
FASTdan - 25/6/12 at 12:36 PM

Can any traders offer advice or experiencre on insurance for product and/or public liability?

So far I have drawn a complete blank when speaking to insurance providers. Some simply say they wont insure anything involved with making parts for motor vehicles, whilst others ask for such specifics on the products that the conversation becomes ridiculous (because they dont know what I'm talking about) - and not only that, but if I become so specifically tied down to a particular product by an insurance policy how can I ever expand my product line?

I just cant see how you can get a policy that will actually cover what I do - more like I'll take a policy out with some fluffy wording that in the event of anything serious happening wont cover me anyway.

I'm interested to know how others get on with this? Can you cover yourself with disclaimers/documentation to show you took all reasonable care to ensure a product is fit for purpose?

For anyone who doesn't know my product lines mostly consist of inlet manifolds and carb kits (carbs being 2nd hand).

Perhaps I am getting too bogged down in this, but until I understand the situation better I am nervous about pushing my business further.

designer - 25/6/12 at 12:45 PM

It's always best to talk to a professional.

Try to get one of those free 30 minute sessions some Solicitors give, and give them the impreesion you are looking for a solicitor.

I did years ago and it saved me over £8K.

FASTdan - 25/6/12 at 12:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by designer
It's always best to talk to a professional.

Try to get one of those free 30 minute sessions some Solicitors give, and give them the impreesion you are looking for a solicitor.

I did years ago and it saved me over £8K.



I've just had the alleged free legal advice phonecall from the affiliated ImechE legal firm and they just said they couldn't advise?! You'd think being affiliated with the institute of mechanical engineers and being a legal firm they'd be perfect for the job.....

designer - 25/6/12 at 12:55 PM

Not all firms do them and, I agree, some do not tell you anything.

I will dig out the firm I used in Leeds before I came over here.

FASTdan - 25/6/12 at 01:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by designer
Not all firms do them and, I agree, some do not tell you anything.

I will dig out the firm I used in Leeds before I came over here.


Thanks

John P - 25/6/12 at 01:11 PM

It's been a while now but about 5-years ago I was a director of a Lift Company and we had Product Liability insurance which covered us if the product failed in service causing damage of even death.

I believe we organised this through

Capital & County Insurance Associates
Bell House
Bell Road
Sittingbourne
Kent ME10 4DH.


I don't think Public Liability would help much if something you sold caused an acident.

It may also be worth reading through this: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1074302010&type=RESOURCES

John.

coyoteboy - 25/6/12 at 01:20 PM

I believe, though it is 3rd hand info, that if you're not a chartered eng and registered with governing bodies the insurance on products you create is usually well over 10K per year for even the most simple stuff.

FASTdan - 25/6/12 at 01:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
I believe, though it is 3rd hand info, that if you're not a chartered eng and registered with governing bodies the insurance on products you create is usually well over 10K per year for even the most simple stuff.


I really hope that is not the case, how on earth could any small business start up with that as a single overhead?!

coyoteboy - 25/6/12 at 02:08 PM

I'm not sure, presumably without insurance as it's not a requirement. I'm aware of another engineering start-up doing just this right now - I'll consult them and find out what/if/who from them, see if they can help you.

FASTdan - 25/6/12 at 02:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
I'm not sure, presumably without insurance as it's not a requirement. I'm aware of another engineering start-up doing just this right now - I'll consult them and find out what/if/who from them, see if they can help you.


Yes thats a presumption I was quickly arriving at myself! Tricky business, I can only assume a lot of small companies rely on disclaimers, terms and conditions etc.......or simply fate. Any info you could turn up would be appreciated though.

I've got a few more insurance company names now (including yours John P, thanks) so will do some more ringing around.

[Edited on 25/6/12 by FASTdan]

russbost - 25/6/12 at 03:17 PM

I would speak to Dave at MSM insurance 01279 870535, they are kitcar specialists (yes I know this is not necessarily kitcar related), you certainly won't have to pay anything like £10k!!!
I have my traders policy with them & have cut things back to pretty much roadrisks, fire at the premises & public liabilty, that comes out to about £2.5k, but about £17/1800 of that is the roadrisks traders policy.

Dave is very helpful & even if they can't do a standalone policy without having traders etc as well, he will still give you good advice & probably able to point you in the right direction of where to go.

Russ

[Edited on 25/6/12 by russbost]

FASTdan - 25/6/12 at 03:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
I would speak to Dave at MSM insurance 01279 870535, they are kitcar specialists (yes I know this is not necessarily kitcar related), you certainly won't have to pay anything like £10k!!!
I have my traders policy with them & have cut things back to pretty much roadrisks, fire at the premises & public liabilty, that comes out to about £2.5, but about £17/1800 of that is the roadrisks traders policy.

Dave is very helpful & even if they can't do a standalone policy without having traders etc as well, he will still give you good advice & probably able to point you in the right direction of where to go.

Russ


Thanks for that - I will give Dave a call. Out of interest with your traders policy - does that cover your personal car or do you still need a private policy as well? Am I right in thinking any car on the trader policy is covered TPFT only?

russbost - 25/6/12 at 05:01 PM

Coverage is fully comp & I have (usually) one Furore & my towcar (a Kia Rio) on the policy, insuring them on a normal domestic policy would cost around £380 the pair so I guess I'm saving that. Technically you're covered for any car you have permission to drive, if it's something registered to yourself or your company you should add it to the MID within 2 weeks of using it

RIE - 25/6/12 at 08:45 PM

I work for a company that provides services to insurance brokers, and one of those services is finding insurer markets for uncommon or non-standard risks - I'll see if they can find something out for me on the side (I'm out of the office until Wednesday though). Chances are you'll need to go through a broker to get the policy, but I've got a long list of those names I can give you as well

ETA: which providers have you contacted so far? Have they been commercial insurance brokers?

[Edited on 25/6/12 by RIE]

FASTdan - 25/6/12 at 09:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RIE
I work for a company that provides services to insurance brokers, and one of those services is finding insurer markets for uncommon or non-standard risks - I'll see if they can find something out for me on the side (I'm out of the office until Wednesday though). Chances are you'll need to go through a broker to get the policy, but I've got a long list of those names I can give you as well

ETA: which providers have you contacted so far? Have they been commercial insurance brokers?

[Edited on 25/6/12 by RIE]


Hi - thanks for that any info would be great.

So far I have spoken to:

Simply Business: Immediately dismissed me as they wont cover what I do, but then passed me through to something like business octupus?? ....Who had something to do with Swinton.... but their specialist wasn't available and should be calling me back....but hasn't.......

Jelf: Affiliated with the ImechE. Girl got flustered as soon as I tried to tell her what I did and so instead emailed me a form to fill in with the details - which I did and returned but have yet to hear anything back.

At that point I decided I needed to seek advice before I make any more futile attempts to call centers!

mookaloid - 25/6/12 at 10:29 PM

I showed my insurance broker friend this thread and asked if he might be able to help you on this - he has arranged many Professional Indemnity and business policies for friends and acquaintances of mine.

His response was "Noooooooooooooooo! Can see many problems and little reward I'm afraid."

doesn't look good